Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Quartermaster James on December 27, 2009, 07:39:40 PM

Title: Pinned barrels
Post by: Quartermaster James on December 27, 2009, 07:39:40 PM: The condensation that formed on my Scottish pistol when bringing it in after a cold day shooting got me to wondering about the stock side of my pinned musket barrel. Seems like even if one protected it from all rain, dew, and snow, condensation alone would provide enough moisture for rust to start on the underside of the barrel.

So, I'm wondering what do yall do? How often do you take a pinned barrel off its stock for cleaning?
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on December 27, 2009, 07:53:21 PM: QJ, I've waxed the snot out of the underside of mine and look at it once a year, 6 years laterm no rust, rewax when inspected
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Post by: hankaye on December 27, 2009, 08:02:52 PM: Quote from: "BEAVERMAN"
QJ, I've waxed the snot out of the underside of mine and look at it once a year, 6 years laterm no rust, rewax when inspected

Interesting thoughts are startin ta run 'round inside of my empty head (kinda like one of them motorcycles insidda the globe thingy),

"How would our forefathers handled this problem
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Post by: mario on December 27, 2009, 08:57:19 PM: Quote from: "hankaye"

"How would our forefathers handled this problem

A 1768 military manual suggested that the barrel be removed for cleaning, but I doubt folks did it much. You can wear out the pin holes in the stock.

If your gun has a good wood-to-metal fit there won't be much of an issue.

In Alaskan Bush villages it's not uncommon to leave hunting guns in the entryway or even stuck butt-first in the snow outside the door to prevent the issue.

I only remove the barrel if it's undergone a big soaking (rainstorm, etc).

Mario
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Post by: Hank in WV on December 27, 2009, 09:45:14 PM: I remove mine every year or so (not too anal about it) and haven't had any issues yet.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on December 28, 2009, 02:01:43 AM: Quote from: "Hank in WV"
I remove mine every year or so (not too anal about it) and haven't had any issues yet.

That's my advise too....folks shouldn't get to carried away on removing the barrel on full stocks so often.
IMO, unless tremendous care is taken each and every time, the average guy is only asking for trouble after a couple of years.

FWIW, I realized sometimes back in the early 1970's that removing the barrel from my first full stock .69 smoothbore was simply not a good idea, so I left it in place for about 10 years without even checking it.

Once I did check it, everything was fine!

I have owned this old smoothie for about 35 plus years now, I would suspect that the barrel has not been removed from the stock more than a dozen times, and 75% of those times was in the first five years of me owning it.

Although I've never done it, Beaverman's suggestion of using Bees Wax sounds like something worthwhile.

I have seen a few older guns that had regular varnish under the barrel and that was always suspected as being a carry over from earlier times....especially those living in the mountains or high desert where you have fairly dramatic temperature changes in day and night.

(When I owned a gun shop in Deming, New Mexico, I guess half of the guns that came into that shop had been varnished....both stocks and barrels and, at times, I have even seen it on the actions, and it was all done deliberately!)

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: woodman on December 28, 2009, 07:50:19 AM: Matt at Northstar West beds his barrels in bees wax when he sets them . Melt and drip down the channel heavily ,install barrel and trim away the excess squeezeout.
Woodman
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Post by: hankaye on December 28, 2009, 12:57:55 PM: I like what Uncle Russ hadda say about the Varnish.
My thoughts are this;

Varnish was an still is one of the best waterproofers goin. A simple coat of varnish on the barrel would have waterproofed the whole shebang. They probably also Varnished the stocks as well after staining. Nuttin like a good coat of Spar Varnish fer things left out inna weather...
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Post by: Quartermaster James on January 04, 2010, 05:48:26 PM: Thanks for all the ideas guys!
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Post by: Captchee on January 04, 2010, 06:50:19 PM: The problem with spar varnish is that if moister gets in under it , it will lift an blister .

Many years back I heard that Hershel house used axel grease .

Recently I got to see some of his old Video series and yep sure enough . He discripbes not only greasing the bottom of the barrel , but also under the butt plate so as to protect the wood .

Myself I m like russ , I don’t take the barrels out , all that often maybe once every few years . Never found the bottom to be rusting
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Post by: hankaye on January 07, 2010, 07:07:29 PM: Cap... did HH also grease under the ramrod pips an trigger guard. In other words did HH grease between any an all metal that laid against wood?
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Post by: Captchee on January 07, 2010, 07:46:58 PM: Quote from: "hankaye"
Cap... did HH also grease under the ramrod pips an trigger guard. In other words did HH grease between any an all metal that laid against wood?

cant say , he didnt speak of that . but he did specifically state that after browning , he used grease neutralize the rusting . then applied grease to the barrel channel to help protect the wood from moister .
Specifically commented on greasing the wood under the butt plate as this would help protect the butt stock wood from moisture often encountered when loading in wet conditions
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Post by: tg on January 08, 2010, 06:10:21 PM: i use a thin coat of bedding compound on the buttstock and besd the barrel in wax but treat the bottom with a coat of the finish i use for stocks, BLO/spar varn/turp. after a real wet season I have taken the barrel off and found only small spots which would not have been a concern so now I only remove every two-three years unless I fall into a river.I think a good shung fit that will not alloew a lot of water in is a good start, I bought a used gun once that fir needles could slip into the area between the barrel and stock, it would get full of water,after bedding the barrel and trimming the excess it was a lot better.
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Post by: sse on January 08, 2010, 10:02:29 PM: I got my full stock hawken in .54 from rollingb, gosh 5, 6, 7, years ago(?). He pinned the 36" Green Mountain barrel, 1" across the flats, into the lumber in five places. I've never removed it and I'm never gonna.
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Post by: hankaye on January 10, 2010, 12:51:58 PM: OK, Cap, so HH greased the barrel CHANNEL an NOT the barrel?
Greased the Buttstock an NOT the ButtPlate?

Did he do any kinda treatment for the metal parts to keep them from corroding (gettin rusty).

I was thinkin of a thin coat of spar varnish on the metal parts to keep the moisture. from attackin the metal. Sort of a sealant effect.
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Post by: Captchee on January 10, 2010, 06:44:29 PM: he grease the barrel and wood of the butt . so basically both parts get grease in some form .
as to finish . brown or etched .

brown and Black are rust , thats all it is . oils , wax and lubes of all kinds keep the rust from continuing .
Most certainly one could coat the barrel with lacquers and such , if they so wished .
But persopnaly , myself I only do that on barrels that have patterns that I want to stay
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Post by: tg on January 10, 2010, 08:58:18 PM: "I was thinkin of a thin coat of spar varnish on the metal parts to keep the moisture. from attackin the metal. Sort of a sealant effect."

I have used my stock finish on the entire barrel (in the white with patina) and it held for a couple of years before the finish started to get spotty on the top, the finish next to the stock looked good, 44" pinned longrifle, I have heard that grease on wood can be a problem with the softening/breakdown of the wood, I am not so sure I would go that route,unless all the wood had a thin layer of bedding on it, I feel better with wax/finish or a combo of both.
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Post by: Captchee on January 10, 2010, 09:32:14 PM: where oil becomes an issue is when it put on time and time again . soaking deep into the wood . this can be an issue becouse it softens the wood .
the very same thing can happen if water is aloud to penitrate .

whats the worst of the two .
myself i would think a one time greasing would be more then enough to never have to worry about it again
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Post by: Shawnee Mike on February 06, 2010, 11:43:39 AM: Osayo all,
Here a tip I have found. I accidentally got a bit of "Tru-oil" on my barrel. That stuff needs a jack hammer to get off. I believe that if you was to clean the barrel really good and then apply tru-oil to the underside of the barrel, it will seal it forever and never get any moisture.
Like others have said as well, I good stock fit will keep moisture from the channle as well. I always wax the joint of the barrel and wood. and a coat over the whole thing. I use Sno-Seal as my wax.
The combination of these things should be all that you need.
As far as condensation... I live in the mountains and frequently take my rifle in and out in all weather. Usually i leave it in the mud room for an hour or so to equalize the temps but not always. If its really cold, It will get condensation on the outside of the barrel. I have not however seen condensation on the inside of the barrel. If its there is pretty sparse. i havent had any trouble with rust. I believe that the static air inside the barrel prevents the condensation from building there.
On my Bess with a bright bore, I have used candle wax on the outside of the barrel and thats stops it from rusting even in the rain. I would imagine it would work the same on a finished barrel.