Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: W. Welshman on May 03, 2010, 12:26:48 AM

Title: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: W. Welshman on May 03, 2010, 12:26:48 AM
Looking for a starting load for a 28 gauge smoothbore "SHOT ONLY" no R/B Thanks for the help Lynn
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Post by: Buzzard on May 05, 2010, 12:05:20 PM
WW, I'm using 50gr 3F and 65 of 6's for rabbits, squirrels and such. Bump it up to 65gr 3F and 80 of 6's for fezants. An over powder card and 1/2 cushion wad, lubed, and the usual overshot card. A good 25-30yd gun.
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Post by: W. Welshman on June 15, 2010, 04:03:18 PM
Thank You
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Post by: Bigsmoke on June 15, 2010, 06:29:27 PM
That seems like a sweet load to me.
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Post by: butterchurn on June 15, 2010, 08:54:14 PM
I'll try it out, myself!
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Post by: Uncle Russ on June 15, 2010, 09:53:11 PM
Lynn, I haven't had the time to play with a whole lot of 'different' loads so far, but I did establish that 60gr FFFg, a single OP wad, and no fiber wad, and then 2 OS cards over 80gr #6's gave a fair-to-middlin pattern at 30 "paces"...

And, 80gr FFg, OS card, half of a 1/2" fiber wad, 80gr of #6's with a single OS card also did fair-to-middlin at 20 "paces"....notice the two different distances. Roughly 20 yds. vs roughly 30yds.

It seems to me, at least at this time, that FFFg appears to want to push the fiber wad through the center of the pattern...but, like I said, I just haven't had the time to experiment a whole lot yet.
This may well be a first impression, but a "hole" in the center of the pattern is a fair bet that something is moving the shot out of there.

Although you mentioned you're not interested, I will mention for the benefit of others that I did work up a nice load using a .530 ball, 90gr FFFg, an OS card, and a .015 tick patch with my own lube....this load is as good, or better, than any of my other smooth bore loads at 50 yds....the .535 ball was all over the paper and I just could not find a sweet spot for the powder charge......changed to the .530 ball and she settled down pretty as you please. Go figure!

This is my very first Renegade Smooth Bore, and from what I'm seeing right now, I have been missing out on a good thing.... this puppy will shoot!

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: Captchee on June 15, 2010, 10:47:40 PM
interesting  russ
 currently im working on a hudson valley fowler with a  52 in .545  bore . i think ill give that load a try for myself here in the next months
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Post by: butterchurn on June 26, 2010, 10:16:12 PM
How much improvement would you get using a patched round ball in a smoothbore vs a fiberwad, the ball and a card over the top?
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Post by: Uncle Russ on June 27, 2010, 10:50:55 AM
Quote from: "butterchurn"
How much improvement would you get using a patched round ball in a smoothbore vs a fiberwad, the ball and a card over the top?

The "card over the top" is only to keep the shot or ball from falling out, or moving away from the powder, when you turn the gun down....by keeping the ball, or shot, seated over the powder you prevent any chance of that same ball or shot becoming a blockage,.

The purpose of a "fiber wab" is to prevent the shot from becoming damaged or deformed, ie, out-of-round, when the gun is fired. A fiber wad is often referred to as a "cushion wad".

This is all based on the idea that perfectly round shot fly better, and maintains a more consistent pattern than shot that has been deformed....such as reclaimed shot, which I have shot tons of over the years.

In a muzzle loader you can not apply "wad pressure" as we can in shot shells using a crimp to maintain that pressure, which insure consistent patterns with a given load.....
With a muzzle loader, it is also equally important,  that equal pressure be  applied as each component is seated.

As far as using a "patched round ball", since we have no rifling, and no lands / grooves for the patch to "bunch up into" when seating a tight fitting ball in order to impart a "spin" on the ball....with a smoothbore,  it begs the question if a tight fitting OP (over powder) wad or card doesn't indeed help with the prevention of escaping gas, create an even better seal than the patched ball alone,  and add accuracy to our smooth bore shooting.

Nothing in smoothbore shooting can beat "experimentation" with ones own gun, whether it be with roundball or shot. I have a new, new to me, .56 cal S/B that is fast becoming one of the most interesting guns I have ever owned....interesting in the sense that it actually seems to like me a little bit, and responds to thoughts,  theories, and experiments as though it might know what it's doing.....instead of fighting me ever step of the way.
Does this make sense? If it does, then you can appreciate how much I have learned to like the lowly Renegade in the few short months I have owned it....it is nowhere near as finicky as custom, or semi custom smoothies I have played with over the years.

All this rambling is just one person's opinion. There are many other opinions, and many of these will have merit. However, you just can't seem to beat the principal that ever single gun is a science within itself, and should be treated as such.

The one thing that has drove me crazy is how a sling, tied on the end of the barrel of my .62 smoothbore, could change the POI (point of impact) with round ball so darn much....but it does, and that's all a story for a different thread.

Uncle Russ..
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Post by: Longhunter on July 28, 2010, 11:06:34 AM
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The one thing that has drove me crazy is how a sling, tied on the end of the barrel of my .62 smoothbore, could change the POI (point of impact) with round ball so darn much....but it does, and that's all a story for a different thread.



REALLY?.. :?
Title: Re: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: W. Welshman on March 21, 2011, 01:13:11 AM
Quote from: "butterchurn"
The one thing that has drove me crazy is how a sling, tied on the end of the barrel of my .62 smoothbore, could change the POI (point of impact) with round ball so darn much....but it does, and that's all a story for a different thread.
Uncle Russ we did talk about this problem, but this answer is for another forum of shooting :rt th
Title: Re: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: Uncle Russ on March 21, 2011, 09:34:43 AM
Quote from: "W. Welshman"
Quote from: "butterchurn"
The one thing that has drove me crazy is how a sling, tied on the end of the barrel of my .62 smoothbore, could change the POI (point of impact) with round ball so darn much....but it does, and that's all a story for a different thread.
Uncle Russ we did talk about this problem, but this answer is for another forum of shooting :rt th

Indeed we did...I have demonstrated this many times.
If you have a "tie-on" sling, the placement of that sling, and how tight you "tie" that sling will definitely affect the harmonics (vibrations) of some barrels.
On my .62 smoothie, from the bench, that difference could be as much as two inches at fifty yards....however, there was indeed a sweet spot too, but that "sweet spot" was not where I wanted the sling for carry.....go figure.

Conventional wisdom says it doesn't matter where you "tie" the sling on a full stuck, but it certainly does on some stocks, or on some guns....a "perfectly bedded" 42" barrel may not need a sweet spot, but most barrels will.

The "cure" for this is simple enough, if you feel you must have a sling....install a sling swivel and the problem goes away.

Uncle Russ...
Title: Re: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: W. Welshman on March 21, 2011, 11:15:56 AM
Right again :rt th  How would that look if I put a harmonic balance on my rifle ? I do enjoy our talks about this stuff.
Title: Re: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: Uncle Russ on March 21, 2011, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: "W. Welshman"
Right again :Doh! Lynn, Lynn, Lynn............Lord help me!

Uncle Russ...
Title: Re: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: Bigsmoke on March 21, 2011, 11:38:09 AM
Or, Lynn, you could just try balancing your harmonica on it and see if that does any good. :rotf  :rotf
Title: Re: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: W. Welshman on March 21, 2011, 11:55:38 AM
John, Wouldn't help me at all. I'm not a shooter can't see
Title: Re: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: Uncle Russ on March 21, 2011, 12:33:22 PM
I see this one guy at the range a lot here lately. He is shooting centerfire but he has a "harmonic balance" on the barrel.
I swear, this guy has been adjusting this thing for three solid years....and it still ain't right.
It looks like crap, it shoots, like crap, and a lot of times when he comes over to my bench I can't resist kidding him,  but he seems determined and he is a nice guy.....

I told him once that he should just that rifle out and just "ugly" an Elk to death with it... :rotf

He loves my .45 longrifle, and I just may have him at the point where he might trade off his junk and get a real rifle.
This little game of ours has been going on for a couple of years now, and there's times when I think he really is interested in Muzzleloading.
But then,  there are also times where I think he just wants to shoot up all my powder and ball as "pay-Back" for me harassing him all the time.

Either way Lynn, I know you're joking, but don't even think about it.
But, If you do, put it on the under-hammer Captchee made for you, then I'll take that ugly thing off your hands.

Uncle Russ...
Title: Re: 28 gauge smoothbore
Post by: W. Welshman on March 21, 2011, 12:39:27 PM
I'll have to think about that one