Post by: SquirrelHeart on May 03, 2010, 01:35:04 PM
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o177/gonzomann_2007/Hawken%20Flinter/103.jpg)
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o177/gonzomann_2007/Hawken%20Flinter/104.jpg)
Thanks for looking,
Curtis
Post by: BEAVERMAN on May 03, 2010, 02:11:18 PM
Post by: Spotted Bull on May 03, 2010, 02:32:58 PM
No, I'm kidding of course it looks great!!
Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on May 03, 2010, 03:18:51 PM
Post by: Bison Horn on May 03, 2010, 04:19:55 PM
I do get dizzy looking at that lock on the wrong side.
Post by: greyhunter on May 03, 2010, 04:25:15 PM
C'est tres bien!
Post by: Captchee on May 03, 2010, 07:37:26 PM
for alittle constructive criticisms
A couple things for your next build .
On your shaping .
. See its all about the lines and proportioning . Take the comb . Bring the nose of the comb down so that from the heal of the butt plate to the nose , you get a strait line . The line should intersect at the top of the tang to ¼ back ..
Also don’t trust the angles of casting . Most times you will need to do alittle tweaking . The comb line should be strait and continues through its entire length . That includes the butt plate area .
With some rifles the comb will be curved IE the roman nose combs . In the case of those the curve should be clean throughout . No peaks
The length of the comb is then proportioned to the length of the wrist using a 3 to 5 scale . IE from the b from the breech end of the barrel to the heal is 5 . Then the comb will be 3 .
A simple way to do this without getting deep into math , is to make a set of dividers that are pinned to the 3 to 5 “Golden Mean “
Not all rifles were built this way . But a large % were .
The other thing I would point out is the use of sanding blocks is a must .
Lets look at the photo of your nose cap . See how the stock dips just before the wood . Before you start the final shaping of the forearm . , leave the wood a little high and thick . Put on your nose cap and then block san the top of the barrel channel down to the top edge of the nose cap . Then come back and bring everything in tight and smooth . Doing that will get ride of that little dip and give you again , clean un broken lines .
Sane with the belly under the lock mortises . Bring that area on down so that it blends smoothly and thinly into the trigger area .
Thus you will end up with less block lines .
Which will be real important on your long rifle .
Again nice job . Not bad at all . Well done
Post by: Ironwood on May 03, 2010, 09:40:03 PM
Post by: PJC on May 03, 2010, 09:55:59 PM
Resting on top of a fat white tail.
But until then. It looks just fine.
Keep at it. I see some great workmanship and it will only get better with each passing rifle.
PJC
Post by: Roaddog on May 04, 2010, 06:36:01 AM
Post by: butterchurn on May 04, 2010, 11:18:03 AM
Post by: SquirrelHeart on May 04, 2010, 11:41:23 AM
Quote from: Captchee
...
On your shaping .
. See its all about the lines and proportioning . Take the comb . Bring the nose of the comb down so that from the heal of the butt plate to the nose , you get a strait line . The line should intersect at the top of the tang to ¼ back ..
Also don’t trust the angles of casting . Most times you will need to do alittle tweaking . The comb line should be strait and continues through its entire length . That includes the butt plate area .
....
The length of the comb is then proportioned to the length of the wrist using a 3 to 5 scale . IE from the b from the breech end of the barrel to the heal is 5 . Then the comb will be 3 .
A simple way to do this without getting deep into math , is to make a set of dividers that are pinned to the 3 to 5 “Golden Mean “.....
The other thing I would point out is the use of sanding blocks is a must .
Lets look at the photo of your nose cap . See how the stock dips just before the wood . Before you start the final shaping of the forearm . , leave the wood a little high and thick . Put on your nose cap and then block san the top of the barrel channel down to the top edge of the nose cap . Then come back and bring everything in tight and smooth . Doing that will get ride of that little dip and give you again , clean un broken lines .
Sane with the belly under the lock mortises . Bring that area on down so that it blends smoothly and thinly into the trigger area .
Thus you will end up with less block lines .
Which will be real important on your long rifle .
Again nice job . Not bad at all . Well done
Captchee, I really appreciate the input. I have a couple of questions for ya though to clarify things a bit. Here is a pic that shows the top of the wrist:
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o177/gonzomann_2007/Hawken%20Flinter/34.jpg)
If I understand you correctly the angle along the top of the comb should intersect about a fourth of the way down the tang which would be about 1/2 to 3/4 inches behind the front screw? Also the bit about not trusting the angles on castings is good to know... the misalignment of this one is probably all my doings however.
Here is a pic from when I was fitting it while the stock still has a beavertail cheekpiece, I never noticed at the time but you can see in the pic that the angle of the buttplate nose is too high.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o177/gonzomann_2007/Hawken%20Flinter/FlintHawken3.jpg)
I am familiar with the concept of the Golden Mean, but I confess I didn't apply any of the rules when I built this rifle. I need to keep that in mind on the next one.
As for the nosecap - I was careful to use blocks when sanding, what i think happened here is my taper to the cap is way too short. Ill attach a couple of closeup pics for you to look at an let me know what you think.... in one of them you can see a line where I had to glue a big chunk of wood when I removed way too much. I had a lot of trouble fitting the nosecap, after a phone conversation with Wyosmith one day he gave me some pointers and I basically started over with it after doing some "damage control".
As for the belly under the lock mortises, I thing I understand your meaning there. I went much deeper with the trigger than I thought I would have to, I probably should have soldered some metal on top of the trigger bars - I think that would have helped smooth out the transition.
Thanks again, I really enjoyed building this rifle and hope to continue on and improve with each one. If you see anything else here please let me know.
Curtis
Post by: SquirrelHeart on May 04, 2010, 12:53:26 PM
Quote from: "Wyosmith"
That is very nicely done
My complements.
:)
Post by: ridjrunr on May 04, 2010, 01:03:01 PM
Post by: jbullard1 on May 04, 2010, 03:08:36 PM
Very Nice Job
Post by: Captchee on May 04, 2010, 07:47:56 PM
Lets star with the comb
Ill do alittle paint shop here so as to better explain what im saying
The red line is the line I was speaking of . It starts at the heal and ends approximately at the breech where it meets the tang to about ¼ back
Now the blue lines are your lines .
This line should be one line . But notice how the flate of the butt plate creates an angle that doesn’t meet the top line of your comb .
Now if the comb line is a curve . Then the transition from would to metal needs to say even with the curve
Now notice with the red line , it forces you to bring the cheek plate down just about the same amount as what you would take off the comb that’s above the line .
Now IMO you lines for the drop looks real good .running parallel to the bottom edge of the stock
But as you can see the belly droops below the line .
Now that’s not un common .
But I often see this from folks who are worried that they will sand into the RR channel .
Here is how you make sure you don’t do that .
1) measure the thickness of wood below where the RR enters the stock. Now go back under your trigger plate and drill a small feeler hole .
Inset your RR and then slip a wire in the trigger plate hole . This will give you the depth of the wood both at the entry and at the breech end . Mark the depth of each on the side of the stock and draw a line between the to makes . That line is the bottom of the RR channel inside the stock . If you stay at least 1/8 away from it , you will be safe .
Now for your nose cap the two red arrows show the high point in you shaping . See the dip between the two . There should be no dip
Here is how I do my nose caps
First I bring the stock down to around 80% shape . IE the lines are there but everything is alittle thick . Now I scribe the back of the nose cap so that the line is just a tad short of where it will be when fully inlet . I then cut into the stock and t remove the wood forward of the nose cap line just enough that the cap will slide on . Then I blacken the back of the cap . Removing the wood tell the cap fully comes back .
Here are a couple photos to show you what I mean . now these pictures are for a poured nose cap but I think they will show you what im getting at
now notice at this point i also have not done the inlays .
but it is at 70-80 % is also where i do my inlays . that way i can bring the wood right on down and y sand right across them . when you sand the stock on down , you will end up polishing the inlays .
this they to will be clean and smooth to the wood . IE if you run your finger aceos the wood and onto the inly , you will feel no transition . the line is smooth and clean . your finger cannot tell where the metal starts and the wood ends
now because i left 20% of the wood , i can then come back and sand the top edge along the barrel and block sand a nice strait line.
Now as to the transition to the nose cap . IMO this should be gradual . Starting at the lock mortise and narrowing to the width of the cap . Again making a nice clean line
As to the depth of your triggers .
What I was getting at is that from the mortise the stock should shape to the trigger plate. Depending on the rifle the trigger plate should be just a fraction below the mortise . . On many originals , you will see that the bottom of the mortise is very thin and the would is shaped strait to the trigger plate . On others the wood rounds only alittle before heading to the mortise.
Now back of the triggers it would help you to shape the wrist on down so it comes to about 1/8 from the sides of the trigger plate.
This line is maintained and slowly widens so as to hole the line of the toe plate
Basicly what im getting at here is all your lines should flow and be un broken
Now again . These are just suggestions. Im not saying things were ALLWAYS done this way . In some cases they were not .
hofuly this willhelp you on your long rifle where keeping the lines is very important
Post by: rickevans on May 05, 2010, 08:51:29 AM
Post by: butterchurn on May 05, 2010, 12:17:50 PM
Post by: SquirrelHeart on May 05, 2010, 01:19:29 PM
Thanks for the additional details and pics as well as the doctored photo. A picture is just, well as they say, worth a thousand words. Explains a lot! I really appreciate you willingness to help out a new builder.
Rickevans-
I bought the patchbox from Muzzleloader Builders Supply. It is a right handed patchbox. I added the tab on the latch. I like the patchbox, however if I had it to do over again I would attempt to make a left handed one from scratch, so it would open the proper direction. It works just fine as it is, however.