Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Kermit on November 03, 2010, 01:24:57 PM

Title: G & JW Hawksley~Sheffield Flasks--Q
Post by: Kermit on November 03, 2010, 01:24:57 PM: Actually two questions:

1) What period(s) do these fit? (I know, patented 1814, so how long and where were they typically used?)

2) Is it REALLY safe to dump powder downbore from one of these "flameproof valves?" It goes against the grain of everything I currently practice.
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Post by: Bigsmoke on November 03, 2010, 03:54:30 PM: Well, I am sure not an expert on flasks, but here is my take. For those flasks, I would say on the Continent and in Africa, they would have been used through the end of the muzzleloading era. So, up to 1860 - 1870 or so. Most of the big game hunters either used a flask, or a leather pocket on their vest out of which they would scoop a handful of powder to reload. Forsythe mentions carrying powder in a flask in India. Baker mentions carrying powder in a pocket while in Africa.

Frankly, Kermit, I would not trust my hand and my head to the flameproof valve. What's the old saying, if it sounds too good to be true, it is? Now granted, I have never had a load go off while pouring powder down the barrel, but it sure could.
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Post by: Captchee on November 03, 2010, 05:37:59 PM: most events i go to dont alow loading from a flask even if that flask has a measure attached . they look at it in the same way as loading from the horn
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Post by: Sir Michael on November 03, 2010, 05:58:41 PM: I'm not to sure about the period after 1814 but I would suppose that their use would have been limited to persons of means.

As for safety check out this topic from earlier this year. This one caught a spark off a grinder at some distance and it found its way through the valve and into the powder in the flask. I suspect that this was possible because of powder residue build up in the spout.

http://www.traditionalmuzzleloadingasso ... sc&start=0 (http://www.traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=13430&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

:Doh! :Doh!
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Post by: Gambia on November 05, 2010, 02:50:38 AM: Powder flasks have been with us since the matchlock days , these were mostly triangle shape and mostly of wood with metal binding. The flask as we know today of copper or brass became popular through the late flintlock period by flask makers such as Sykes whose patent flask top of 1814 was later improved by Dixon, there was also another well know maker called Frith,
The most well known flask maker of the percussion era was James Dixon & Sons of Sheffield who started producing flasks in 1833 at Cornish Place Sheffield .Another well known company who produced flasks was G &J.W.Hawksley,they were others who produced powder flasks.
Although the powder flask improved safety wise with the fire proof shutter it still can ignite from a spark in the barrel , all my 61 years of shooting muzzle loaders I loaded straight from the flask till about 12 years ago when I had a full flask ignite , luckly it was a long barrel gun and I was in a sitting postion it blew the flask sky wads out of my hand and ended in three parts 20 yards away but it left me badly burnt down my right side , if it had been a standed percussion gun and I had been standing up it would have been a lot worse , today I load from a seperate measure.
Another bad habit with flintlock shooters is to carry a priming flask or horn on a cord hung from around their neck this can ignite from falling powder from the pan
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door
Title: Re:
Post by: swathdiver on December 29, 2015, 12:21:37 PM: Quote from: "Feltwad"
...all my 61 years of shooting muzzle loaders I loaded straight from the flask till about 12 years ago when I had a full flask ignite

Was that a flask with a flameproof valve like the Sykes or a standard design like used to load cap and ball six shooters?
Title: Re: G & JW Hawksley~Sheffield Flasks--Q
Post by: Feltwad on January 26, 2016, 05:12:42 PM: Excuse the late reply yes the powder flask was fitted with a flame proof cut off by Dixon & Son a Sheffield maker .This was full flask which on ignition and blown out of my hand with the bulk igniting above my head badly burning the side of my face and the right side of my arm and body.I was sitting in hide when this happened if I had been standing would be a lot worse
Feltwad
This is what was left
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/Ramrod_2006/P1010001_zpsecqp0lid.jpg) (http://http)
Part of my Powder Flask Display
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/Ramrod_2006/100_1096_zpso8igvliq.jpg) (http://http)
Title: Re: G & JW Hawksley~Sheffield Flasks--Q
Post by: swathdiver on January 27, 2016, 11:05:24 PM: Thank you for your informative reply and that is a nice collection sir. Would you say the valve was open or defective somehow when the explosion occurred?
Title: Re: G & JW Hawksley~Sheffield Flasks--Q
Post by: Feltwad on January 28, 2016, 01:48:46 AM: Swathdiver

I can definitley say the valve was closed when the charge was poured.
Feltwad
Title: Re: G & JW Hawksley~Sheffield Flasks--Q
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 28, 2016, 04:36:35 PM: Very nice, Feltwad!
In your opinion, about how long has the cut-off valve been in place, or perhaps when did it become popular?

Uncle Russ...
Title: Re: G & JW Hawksley~Sheffield Flasks--Q
Post by: Feltwad on January 29, 2016, 02:57:58 AM: Russ
Has I said the cut off in the powderflask was between the matchlock and early flintlock period, by 1750 it was well used and made by many flask makers of Sheffield and Birmingham.
Feltwad