Post by: carey on January 10, 2011, 03:00:24 PM
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 10, 2011, 03:17:57 PM
Post by: sse on January 10, 2011, 03:26:03 PM
Post by: sse on January 10, 2011, 03:26:41 PM
Quote
NewbeWelcome.......................
Post by: carey on January 10, 2011, 03:31:12 PM
does it help to use the rubber covers over the end of the barrel and the nipple?
Post by: sse on January 10, 2011, 03:38:37 PM
I always take any muzzle cover off when back in the house, becaues you don't want that to trap any humidity in the barrel.
I never use anything on the nipple, but might wrap something around it if caught in heavy rain.
Post by: Bigsmoke on January 10, 2011, 04:09:41 PM
The real issue is whether or not you cleared the nipple pasageways before you loaded it in the first place.
Several years ago, I was visiting a gunshop in Modesto, CA and a fellow brought in a c & b revolver that he said had been loaded for 20 years or some such. The gunsmith took it into the shop, and fired it into his shooting tube. 5 out of 6 went of the first time. Soooooo..........
Welcome aboard.
John
Post by: BEAVERMAN on January 10, 2011, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: "carey"
Thanks
does it help to use the rubber covers over the end of the barrel and the nipple?
I cover the barrel with heavy duty masking tape dots that a freind of mine gets from boeing
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 10, 2011, 04:42:48 PM
Quote from: "BEAVERMAN"
Quote from: "carey"Thanks
does it help to use the rubber covers over the end of the barrel and the nipple?
I cover the barrel with heavy duty masking tape dots that a freind of mine gets from boeing
Jeeesh! No wonder those airplanes cost so much, they're held together with masking tape!
There are many stories of muzzleloaders being loaded for fifty or even more years and still shooting.
I have personally left the powder and ball in one of my own muzzleloaders for years while it sat in the corner of the garage....starting reading that this would cause a rust ring and possibly a walnut on shooting, so I shot it just to check the barrel....wiped the barrel first, then dropped a bore light down and it was clean as a whistle.
There was no ring, no rust, no nothing.
Still yet, others have said they find that ring after just a few days....go figure.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Loyalist Dave on January 10, 2011, 11:13:36 PM
So like a cartridge, if the moisture was kept out..., the thing could stay live for many many decades. Might not be a safe barrel to shoot after 50 years,.., but the powder still might explode.
Don't they have a couple of documented cases in the 1960's of "solid" shot from CW artillery that was dug up actually being a fused mortar round that got hot when placed next to a wood fire in a fireplace in a home..., and went boom..., 100 years after it was made?
LD
Post by: Captchee on January 11, 2011, 08:23:51 AM
What does happen is that the ignition temperature raises .
Some where here on the board is a long warning concerning as I recall a 130 year old set of SXS barrels that I had go off . After I thought I had made them safe .
BP need moisture to speed it corrosion. .Be that moisture that’s already in the powder OR induced after the fact . But I can tell you with all certainty that old powder is still very much viable even after so much time has passed that it has reduced itself to looking like dirt
But as to the question .
here is my thoughts on the subject .
One of the things with Traditional muzzle loading , is the process of learning how to make the rifle as reliable as possible. In order to do that you have to reduce or eliminate as many of the variables as you possibly can .
In doing so not only does the rifle become more consistent but also more accurate .
So now lets say your out hunting . You guns been loaded over night .. Just as the sun is breaking over the skyline , you get your shot .
Will the gun go off ?
You taped it up . Condoms were put on the muzzle .
But the real question is what has happened since you last loaded the gun not to mention through the night while it was un attended.
Maybe nothing . But maybe something . The point is you don’t know .
How many stories have we all heard or had the same thing happen to us . You get your shot and the gun either flashes in the pan or pops the cap . All because a little moisture or lube was in the flash channel .
So I ask . Is that one load really worth rolling the dice ?
IMO no . I unload every day after the hunt and replace the load with a fresh load .
Now don’t get me wrong . A fresh load doesn’t mean it will 100% go off . But IMO the % is much higher then the load left in the barrel .
Now the other reason I don’t leave my guns loaded after hunting for a day .
None of us know what tomorrow will bring . For that mater if there will be a tomorrow.
Muzzleloaders are not like centerfires . Most folks don’t know how the check for a load . So we mark out loaded guns with tape , flags . Sticky notes and such .
But in reality if we don’t let others know what that means then the gun can end up being loaded for a lifetime .
I have bought muzzleloaders at gun shows that were loaded .
I have bought barrels off of internet auction site’s that when delivered , were loaded .
I even have bought 2 such loaded guns at the muzzle loading Gun show at Monroe .
I have even had people bring me old muzzleloaders that have been in the family for generations . As kids they played with them as toys .
You should see the look on their face when you explain that the gun is loaded .
Why were they loaded ? Who knows .
Maybe the gun was used for home security . Maybe it was an old barn gun . Or maybe grandpa was last out hunting . Left it loaded thinking he would use it in a few days on his next hunt . But that hunt never was to be .
Years after the fact his grand kids are using it as a plaything .
So guys . don’t leave your muzzleloaders loaded . If you don’t want to have to clean it then get a Co2 discharger and blow the load when your done with the hunt
that’s my 2 cents
Post by: carey on January 11, 2011, 09:38:38 AM
Will I see any big difference when using Pyrodex vs FFF?
Post by: Trois Castors on January 11, 2011, 09:56:52 AM
Quote from: "Captchee"
I have bought muzzleloaders at gun shows that were loaded .I bought a used T/C Renegade from Canadian Tire in Kenora over the phone. It came in the mail loaded
I have bought barrels off of internet auction site’s that when delivered , were loaded .
I even have bought 2 such loaded guns at the muzzle loading Gun show at Monroe .
with powder,sabot&bullet.
Quote from: "Captchee"
Years after the fact his grand kids are using it as a plaything .My cousin is going to bring up two "family"
muzzleloaders for me to check out in February.
Post by: greyhunter on January 11, 2011, 12:53:55 PM
Post by: Mitch on January 11, 2011, 02:43:15 PM
Post by: lefty41 on January 11, 2011, 03:55:18 PM
thanks for your long post!
Made me think about my New Englander, loaded in November and didn't get a shot. Brought it home intending to take it to the range but it wound up in the safe loaded. You made so much a good case for unloading that I left the computer and discharged it with the CO2 and cleaned it properly then put it back in the safe.
We do not know when the next time will come, or if it will! I would certainly not want my son or grandsons to find it loaded and not know what to do or have it fire.
Thanks again, I will never leave it loaded after this.
Post by: Indiana on January 11, 2011, 06:45:05 PM
Post by: mark davidson on January 13, 2011, 12:26:29 PM
Post by: lefty41 on January 13, 2011, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: "mark davidson"
I leave mine loaded between hunts. I meticulously clean and clear the nipple and path each time I clean to prepare for that first shot in the woods. I have so far(knock on wood) NEVER had a misfire in the woods. In fact I have never had a misfire period on the FIRST shot from a fresh CLEANED and prepped gun. My confidence is around 99.9%+ in my gun shooting on that first shot. So, unless I want to go through the whole cleaning process again, I am not going to unload at the end of the day just to load back up for the next mornings hunt. I will clear the pan on a flinter or remove the cap from a cap gun but a real shot is what shoots my confidence way down and causes me to spend quite a while cleaning and getting it truly "ready" again. I have had mine sit one time for six months and many others for a week or two loaded and it always went bang on that first shot. I do not see an unprimed flinter or uncapped cap gun at all in the same light of danger in the house as I do a loaded centerfire modern gun. If kids or grandkids are "playing" with a real gun of any kind then there is something seriously wrong with the family values and house rules.
Mark, If you were talking about my post. Read it again, you should be able to tell that I was meaning my death and them finding it. All my firearms are locked in the safe and my son and grandsons know very well about handling them. Have a good day.
Post by: mark davidson on January 14, 2011, 09:16:17 AM
Post by: Captchee on January 14, 2011, 09:51:19 AM
It happens allot
Quote
I would never have guessed such carelessness to be so rampant in the MLing community.
Times are changing mark . a lot of very strange things happen any more .
Growing up one of the worst whoopins I can remember getting was for shooting the neighbor kid with a rubber band pistol my dad had made me .
To dad a gun was a gun . Did not mater if it was a toy or not . You treated them all the same .
In our house every gun had full magazines . They were not locked up . No gun safe .
But we were taught what guns could do if handled wrong . Gun safety was something that was taught starting at a very young age .
Sadly that’s not so in far , FAR to many cases today .
Here is a story for you .
Some months back I get a knock on my door .
There stood a old friend that I had not seen since high school .
On my bench sat a pistol that I was working on .
He starts in on this story about his dad who when we were kids owned a pawn shop .
Like most small town pawn shops they sold lots of guns .
he goes into telling me how this muzzle loading flintlock pistol came into the shop one day .
It had been in the gun case for some time when a guy came in and wanted to look at it .
Joe said the fella looked it over and then ask if he could check the spark .
He took it , aimed it at a elk mount up on the wall and dropped the cock .
You guessed it . She went off . Blowing the nose of the mount .
.
Something else that has seemed to change is cleaning . Why that’s such and issue for many folks , I don’t know .
In our house it was something we did every few months . didn’t mater if we shot the guns or not .
Dad would pick a day . On that day we all would set at the table . Every gun was unloaded . Checked , disassembled , cleaned , lubed , reassembled. The magazines reloaded and put back .
Maybe that’s why today I don’t mind cleaning my guns . Myself I rather enjoy it .
Especially after a hunt . I find it enjoyable and relaxing to set down and give the gun a once over .
Post by: mark davidson on January 14, 2011, 10:13:01 AM
As for cleaning, I do not honestly mind the cleaning when I do actually do it. I think for me and for many others the cleaning is a time consuming task that has to be worked in to an otherwise very hectic schedule. Sometimes, I work at my regular job and get off in time to squeeze in an afternoon hunt. When I come home I have honey-do stuff immediately and my little boy waiting on me for supper and family attention. It is hard for me to justify taking even more time away from my loved ones while I am out in the shop spit shining my MLer just to load it back up and go do the same thing the next day. Boiling a cup of hot soapy water and a thorough cleaning of the type that gives me confidence on the next hunt is not a trivial project. I don't really hate the cleaning as much as I do the time it takes away from where my heart is after dark.
Post by: lefty41 on January 14, 2011, 06:19:25 PM
I understand what you are saying. I apologize for the way I responded, was in a hurry and did not think through what I wanted to say. My age is 69 and thoughts of leaving this earth do creep in from time to time. I do agree with you and Captchee, times are 'a changn'. We never had a gun safe at home growing up (no one I knew did) they simply hung in a gun rack on the wall and I and my brother knew to leave them alone.
I really enjoy the information here and the way everyone tries their best to be helpful.
Again Mark, no offense taken from your post.
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 14, 2011, 06:53:27 PM
We all understand that the written word is the absolute worst form of communication, to much room for misinterpretation, misunderstanding, and too easily processed into a totally different meaning than that which the sender had intended.
Great job, fellas
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on January 15, 2011, 02:24:55 AM
Also most schools had reasonable nos of students and the idea that guns in general were taboo was not taught as a fact .I would have to say it"s a lot harder to teach our kids proper gun handling today then a half century ago. I have 5 children 25 grand chlidren and7 great grand children and spend much time and energy to instill in them , the proper respect for guns. Its an on-=going responsibility and reqquires our full attention every day. I have great respect for you younger folks who are carrying the ball into the 21st century .
:) :)
Post by: Dphariss on January 16, 2011, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: "carey"
Newbe . How long can you leave a percussion loaded and expect it to fire. Overnight? Two Days ?
50 years? 100?
Depends on how its loaded and where its stored.
If kept dry and the priming compound is stable and the good caps were very stable by the 1850s or so. The gun will remain "viable" for very long periods of time.
Using a patch lube that coats the bore with a preservative.....
I was told second hand story of police investigating a little old lady shooting an intruder with a Colt Dragoon that her father had loaded for her decades before telling her to keep it near her bed. Good advise it would appear.
This was related to a friend at the NRA Convention some years back. I gather the Dragoon had been loaded for something like 50 years at least.
Dan