Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Caplock Long Guns => Topic started by: carey on January 18, 2011, 03:48:24 PM

Title: Capping at halfcock
Post by: carey on January 18, 2011, 03:48:24 PM
Newbe. Have a TC Hawken. Can it be capped when at half cock? Clearance between hammer and nipple is about 3/16 inch when at half cock. Is it normal practice to cap only at full cock? If you don't shoot??? thumb the hammer, pull the trigger, and let the hammer down to half cock on the live cap???
Secondly, are other muzzleloaders Lyman, CVA, etc normally capped at half cock??
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Post by: sse on January 18, 2011, 04:25:03 PM
First, welcome...

Neat question.  I used to have one of those and I always capped at full cock.  I don't know if that's in the manual and recommended, or not, but I suppose I coud check as I think I still have one of those.  Generally, only rarely would I carefully release the hammer to the half-cock position, while capped.  I did mostly target shooting with it and used one of those slender brass cap feeders that had about a 17 cap capacity.  I suppose this device would be small enough to cap the nipple at half cock.

Be interested to see what others say, because I know many here have that rifle, or similar.
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Post by: Shadow Hawk on January 18, 2011, 04:46:50 PM
i have a tc renagade and also use a capper. i am able to cap at half cock.  so that is what i do. even at the range i cap at halfcock then shoulder, full cock and fire. some times ill even aim :shock:
hope this helps.
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Post by: Firewalker on January 18, 2011, 05:16:16 PM
Some T/C's can be capped easily at half cock and other not. Depends on the hammer and lock. If hunting I cap at full and place a bit of folded leather over the cap and ease the hammer onto that and carry it that way. If I'm at a shoot or the range, I wait until I am on the line at the point of shooting and full cock cap and fire.
BTW Welcome to the TMA.
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Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on January 18, 2011, 07:55:55 PM
I never figgured out why TC made the half=cock position so close to the nipple ? but I"ve had three TCs amd they all were too tight .Two of them I"ve solved the problem by converting to flint . The one capper is still a chalange and I use an in-line capper , works but is still a pain in the butt.
Title: capping at half cock
Post by: greyhunter on January 18, 2011, 08:22:19 PM
I pull the hammer to full cock, put the cap on the nipple, then Carefully lower the hammer down to the cap, where I push it a down "a little". Then I raise it up enough to slip a leather thong between the cap and hammer. When I need to shoot , I pull the thong, which is looped to my trigger guard, out and fully cock the hammer. The question has come up recently about pressure or hammer blow setting off a cap. Captchee did a good post on the subject, and what he has determined I agree with. At any cost, do as I do an yer on yer own hook!  BTW, I  learned to  lower the hammer back when I had a .22 single shot,"50 years ago" If ya picked the bolt up on that little  bugger when it was cocked, it released the hammer and fired! Soooo, I learnt how to looooower the bolt real easy like to unload it. I use the same method on my caplocks. Be careful! Point that muzzle to the ground and pay attention! Regards GH.
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Post by: shootrj2003 on January 18, 2011, 10:35:07 PM
I use the method explained by greyhunter and it always works well but as usual whenloading point in a safe direction !
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Post by: carey on January 19, 2011, 09:32:30 AM
I guess I just thought all muzzleloaders could be capped at half cock. Obviously not so!!
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Post by: pathfinder on January 19, 2011, 10:14:17 AM
What's a cap? Is it some kinda new way of knapping yer flint? :Doh!
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Post by: Captchee on January 19, 2011, 10:23:46 AM
Quote from: "carey"
I guess I just thought all muzzleloaders could be capped at half cock. Obviously not so!!

 nope not all. it all depends on the  cut of the tumbler .

TC  for a while  produce locks where you could cap at the 1/2 cock .
 I don’t know this for sure but  they probably changed do to  lawsuit potential.
 With the ½ cock further  down in the tumbler curve , you have less tension on the main spring  . So over time you get less  chance of sear and tumbler damage .  Also less chance of the sear  jumping out of  the notch .
 Its also much more noticeable  that such a lock is at the ½ vs. one that closer to the full cock notch

 One should also not  100 % rely on the ½ cock as a safety. If the sear for any reason jumps out of the notch . There still can be enough pressure to set of the cap .

 Its not like a true safety which is more of an interrupter in that  when  in the safe position  the  triggers are held away from the sear  ether by blocking the sear completely . Or by  setting   at a higher point on the trigger . thus also holding the triggers away from the sear  .

 With the ½ cock the sear is always in full contact with the  sear . As such  one can actually have  get the gun to fire  while cocking . While lowering to the ½  cock  or by  jarring the trigger   hard enough .

 It should also be noted that  if the ½ is worn  or not cut properly ,  many times you can easly  fire the lock even though it is in the ½ cock .
Which then also relates back to the reasoning for TC placing the ½ notch where they did and cut the way it is
 But even with that , there are times when someone will have things out of tune and thus start to have an issue with the  lock  firing at the ½ .. or catching at the 1/2 .

So while the ½ cock is better then nothing its not anywhere near 100% safe .
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Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on January 19, 2011, 10:34:07 AM
I would hope that all here would  understand that any mechanical safe is just an extra precaution against accdental discharge and the only safe gun is one pointed ia safe direction.
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Post by: sse on January 19, 2011, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: "Gordon H.Kemp"
I would hope that all here would  understand that any mechanical safe is just an extra precaution against accdental discharge and the only safe gun is one pointed ia safe direction.
+1
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Post by: sse on January 19, 2011, 11:50:46 AM
Quote
nope not all. it all depends on the cut of the tumbler .
And the length of the nipple and angle of the drum.  My replica Hawken that Rondo built works just right with a hot shot nipple, which is a tad longer than a standard T/C #11 replacement nipple.  He planned it that way.
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Post by: sse on January 19, 2011, 11:54:03 AM
Quote from: "pathfinder"
What's a cap? Is it some kinda new way of knapping yer flint? :Doh!
LOL  Problem is you guys get moss and worms and salamanders covering and hiding under those rocks.
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Post by: Captchee on January 19, 2011, 12:13:45 PM
Quote from: "sse"
Quote from: "Gordon H.Kemp"
I would hope that all here would  understand that any mechanical safe is just an extra precaution against accdental discharge and the only safe gun is one pointed ia safe direction.
+1

+2
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Post by: Uncle Russ on January 19, 2011, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
Quote from: "sse"
Quote from: "Gordon H.Kemp"
I would hope that all here would  understand that any mechanical safe is just an extra precaution against accdental discharge and the only safe gun is one pointed ia safe direction.
+1

+2
+3

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: sse on January 19, 2011, 12:20:01 PM
Quote from: "RussB"
Quote from: "Captchee"
Quote from: "sse"
Quote from: Gordon H.Kemp
I would hope that all here would  understand that any mechanical safe is just an extra precaution against accdental discharge and the only safe gun is one pointed ia safe direction.
+1

+2
+3

Uncle Russ...
+4