Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: vthompson on August 23, 2011, 03:02:07 PM
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Hey guy's, I need your help,advise and expertiese. As some of you know, I got a new rifle for Christmas and my birthday. It is a Lyman 50cal. GPR flintlock. I didn't like the sights that came on the gun so I ordered some new ones from Lyman. They came in the mail yesterday and I installed them on the rifle last night.
I took it out today to shoot it some and to start getting it sighted in. Here lies the problem. The rifle hang fires most of the time or it doesn't fire at all. I clean the vent hole after every shot and I would also brush the pan out with a small brush. I would have to put powder in the pan 3 or 4 times and fire it before it would finally fire at the target.
What am I doing wrong. I am really aggrivated right now so i cleaned the rifle and put it up. Can someone out there help me? Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and trouvle,
vthompson
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Man, do I know how you feel. My 54 does the same thing, and I too have sat mine in the corner.
I've done everything that I've read here and elsewhere, but it's still unreliable, enough so that there is no way I would hunt with it.
I'm going to sit back and absorb all the tricks that are recommended to you.
Hope you get it figured out.
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1.)What powder are you using? If it's not real BP then that's probably your problem.
2.)What size is your vent? 1/16" is generally considered the minimum. Sometime opening it up to 5/64" will help.
3). Is your flash channel/breech open, clean and dry?
4.) Can you see powder from the main charge in the flashhole? Or at least feel it is there with a vent pick?
If your pan is flashing everytime then the problem lies somewhere between the main charge and the pan. Clean and dry everything thoroughly. Make sure the channels are clear. After you pour the main charge, turn the rifle lockside down and smack the rifle breech several times to settle the powder down into the breech as far as it will go. Check with a vent pick. If you can't feel the powder then something is in the way.
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Also:
What powder are you using for the pan, and how much ???
SHOULD be 4F, and not that much !!!
I use a MEASURED amount of 4F from my primer container (has a spring mechanism to put a precise amount in the pan).
Too much primer can cause problems like you describe.
And as Biliff said, use REAL blackpowder !!!
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Bill pretty much covered it all. My gpr was very reliable, so it is surprising that two of you have that problem. Check out the breech by pulling the lock and shining a pen light thru the flash hole as you look down the bore. a larger flash hole should help, if not then there must be something blocking the flame path. Good luck with it.
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I use nothing but Goex Blackpowder in my rifles, so that shouldn't be the problem. What gets me, is that the rifle will shoot flawlessly for 3 or 4 shots and then it will act up like this. Is it a good idea to drill the vent hole a little larger than what it is? I will do that if you guy's think that it will help me out.
I used to shoot a percussion rifle so all of this flintlock stuff is new to me. I am learning right now. I am all ears to your ideas and suggestions. Thank you for your time and trouble,
VThompson
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I'll re-ask what Bill asked...When your rifle fails to fire does your pan powder ignite? If it does, then you must have a blockage of some sort. You may be getting a build up of fouling with each shot that you are pushing down to block or partially block the touch hole. There are several things that could be happening, but a little more information would be helpful.
Please address each of Bill's questions, that will help folks help you. Also, where is your touch hole located in relationship to your pan? If possible, please post a picture of your lock.
Al
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What gets me, is that the rifle will shoot flawlessly for 3 or 4 shots and then it will act up like this.
VThompson
Are you wiping between shots?
Starting to sound like you're creating a blockage while shooting.
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Hey Vern,
I had a Lyman Great Plains Flintlock about 25 years ago. I had the same problem. Looking back on the problem I think that the frizzen needed to be hardened. Are you getting a good spark?
Wally
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Good morning fellas .
Personally I have never subscribed to the idea of swabbing the bore between shots .
Now I can see the want for this if your working on accuracy and the given rifle is found to like a clean bore vs. a fouled bore . But this has little to do with consistency of ignition . In fact it can hurt consistency if the shooter is pushing a slobbering wet patch into a bore and thus wetting areas where a dry patch cannot get ..
In the case of the original posters problem . I would agree that we need just a tad more info.
But here is what I have found concerning” some “ GPR .
A) the flash hole is to small . In these cases opening it up alittle can help . I wouldn’t recommend going over 5/64 . So start by opening up alittle at a time
B) for what ever reason some vent picks don’t work on some of the GPR flash hole liners. After pulling the liner I have found restrictions within the liner itself . In two cases this restriction looked like a piece of welding slag or casting that was stuck in there.
. Dilling the flash hole bigger , did not salve the issue because the bead would create a fouling trap .
So before you try and pull the liner . Make sure that you can freely push you vent pick all the way through and well into the bore . The flash hole needs to be clear
C) is the lock itself .
Lyman is an importer just like CVA . IE they don’t make their guns .
Unlike CVA though , the Lyman and investment arms guns are Italian made by a sub of Pedersoli . As such their locks can be inconsistent in quality .
Biggest issues I have found is with the frizzen and tumbler bridles . A few I have worked on had tempering issues with tumblers and sears . But those issues are far less then what I have witnessed with the lower end Pedersoli pieces .
But is sounds like the lock is working
So without knowing if your consistently getting flash in the pan or not , from what your saying you actually could be experiencing a frizzen issue.
For what ever reason some of the Lyman frizzen are overly hard. They will work with an English flint but the need the flint to be sharp .
This could be why it works for 3-5 shots then you have to fight it to get her to go off .
While myself I hate cut agate flints , in the above cases , I have found them to work better .
To check this , you need to read the color and amount of your sparks .
With you gun empty and with a sharp flint ., fire the lock 4 or 5 times . Do you see a reduction in the amount of sparks falling to the pan as the flint wears ?.
What color are those sparks , white , yellow /orange or red
While this reduction will naturally happen , it should not happen in 4 or 5 shots . If it is and your sparks are white , then IMO the frizzen is to hard .
Red colored and its to soft ..
Now I will also state this . IF you are currently using a Cut Agate and experiencing the above problems . Try changing to an actual flint . Oddly enough I did have one case where a shooter came to me with ignition problems with his GPR . He was using cut agates and I could find nothing wrong with his gun . Because I didn’t have and DON’T carry agates , I replaced his agate with an English flint and it solved most of the issue he was having .
In closing I will say this .
Assuming the lock is in proper working order then “ If “ the flash channel is clear and you have good spark , then your gun will go off .
But you have to do your part to insure you maintain both . The guns not going to do it for you . As such a big part of learning to keep a flintlock consistent is in learning to recognize the point when you need to sharpen your flint and clear the flash hole .after a while this will become second nature
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I had a customer with the same problem in his 54.I ordered a L&R replacement lock for him.It has a main spring in it instead of a coil spring.We had to gouge out the inner wood for the main spring a little.
He is very happy with the lock even though the cost was around $150.00.Very fast.The place i deal with is http://www.the (http://www.the) gun works.com.Suzi and Joe are very nice peaple.They have a great web & catolog. William
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1. make sure your flint is screwed down tight in the jaws. does it spark good and ignite the prime? if so, then the lock is doing its job. If not, then you might need to address the lock--maybe a soft frizzen or weak mainspring or some other maladjustment like too short or too long of a flint, too strong a frizzen spring, etc...
2. make sure your vent is clear of any and all obstructions. don't fill the pan too full of prime. when you pick your vent you should feel the crunch of powder.
3. make sure you are not swabbing between shots and pushing fowling in the vent path.
4. you can also use a vent pick and push a few kernels of your fine prime powder in the vent hole, but still try and keep the vent clear or you will still get slow ignition.
good luck