Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Loyalist Dave on September 12, 2011, 09:40:36 PM
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Hey folks, other than on a SxS smoothbore or double rifle, are there any examples of a single barrel, left hand, flintlock fowler or rifle? Can you share the location or collection?
LD
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Have a s/b 12 by Patrick of Liverpool UK , this was a left hand flinter converted to percussion and dates from 1810 .Has a matter of interest this was a lady gun maker.
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door
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That's a good lookn gun. I have never seen a old lefty beforn.
How did a gal get away with doing men's work back in the day?
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It was common practise for a woman to work along with her husband has a gun maker.If a husband died then the wife carried on the business with hired help such has a journeyman gun smith plus local men.
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door
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That's pretty cool. Anybody else have something or know of one in a collection?
LD
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Feltwad , thanks for the information , I now know there is at least one leftymade "back when" and there were Lady gunsmiths.
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"Gunmakers" were not always or more correctly rarely gunsmiths. They were often just merchants.
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Capt.jas. interesting concept , can you give us more information as to the difference between "Gunsmith " and "Gunmaker"? Too often words become intercahngable over the years and lose their distinction .
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Gordy...if you can get ahold of the Jul/Aug issue of Muzzleloader, Mark Sage talks about this in his Northwest Trade Guns article.
Al
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Thanks Al , seems there were more care taken years ago in what constituted a journeyman from a master etc. This was true for most trades . carpentry , cabinet maker , blacksmith etc. I,m not saying that because a person didn,t climb the ladder from helper to master craftman they arn,t good at what they do. But I think much important information gets lost in the process.
:hairy
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Capt.jas. interesting concept , can you give us more information as to the difference between "Gunsmith " and "Gunmaker"? Too often words become intercahngable over the years and lose their distinction .
Gordon,
I would suggest reading English Gunmakers by De Witt Bailey and Douglas Nie as well as Blackmore's Gunmakers of London 1350-1850 and supplement volume. They discuss this subject in depth. All very interesting and very important for those interested in guns used in America during colonial times as they were imported here in number.
James
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Capt.Jas. thanks for the refferences , I,ll check for them through the lebrary to see if a copy might be available on the interloan system.
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You won't be sorry when you get your hands on them.
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The 1790 {Book Of Trades} referes to several trades to building a gun ,for the barrels these are produced by a barrel forger, the lock by a lock maker and the the stock by a stocker.and like wise the engraver All of these trades worked for several gunmakers who then built the the gun from the parts of the trades mentioned ,in other words they were builders of what we would today call kits.
The gun smith is known has a repairer of guns this became more popular in the breech loading period from the pin fire onwards
The journeyman gun maker was mostly an apprentice just out of his apprenticship who travel from town to town and working part time for several gun makers.Records show that most of these journeymen lodged at the local workhouse,when he had saved enough money he would start a business of his own which depended on the gentry and gentlemen farmers of the area who would be his clientele.
Enclose are some of the charges he would have charged from a 1845 bill
Cleaning a d/b gun and repairing the stock 2 shillings 6 pence
Polishing barrels, cleaning locks ,stock and furniture fit a new nipple 3shillings 6pence
New ramrod 3 shillings
Accessiors
4lb of gun powder 10 shillings
1 bag of shot 7 shillings 6pence
2 sheets of best white wadding 2shillings 6pence
1box of anticorrosive caps 3 shillings 6pence
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door
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OK so I am guessing that since only one example was offered up, and nobody even referenced a written inventory of a lefthanded single lock flinter, they were very very rare indeed.?
LD
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It was common practise for a woman to work along with her husband has a gun maker.If a husband died then the wife carried on the business with hired help such has a journeyman gun smith plus local men.
Yup. She had rights to the mark, but didn't necessarily do the work herself.
OK so I am guessing that since only one example was offered up, and nobody even referenced a written inventory of a lefthanded single lock flinter, they were very very rare indeed.?
Definitely rare. I know only of 2. Both French.
Left handed fusil fin recovered from LA. Louisiana Archeological & Anthropological Survey.
TM Hamilton, Colonial Frontier Guns, page 60-61
Left handed fusil de traite, ca. 1730s (probable Saint-Etienne manufacture). Found in South-central PA. Robert Speelman Collection
Kevin Gladysz, The French Trade Gun in North America, 1662-1759,Pg 93-94
Mario
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Good info Mario. Thanks
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OK GREAT, thanks Mario. That gives three examples, counting in Feltwad's flint conversion to caplock.
I have seen a modern gunstock carved to better allow a right handed shooter ease of laying the head across the comb of the stock to use the left eye when shooting. He was a Korean War Vet, right handed, right eyed, lost the right eye, but wanted to continue deer hunting so had his gunstock modified to allow him to do this. I wondered if a person shooting a flinter in the 18th century who lost their right eye, would have to learn to do the same (perhaps not with the stock change) to shoot with the left eye rather than have a left handed flinter made.
Just pondering, and thanks for the information.
LD
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OK GREAT, thanks Mario. That gives three examples, counting in Feltwad's flint conversion to caplock.
I have seen a modern gunstock carved to better allow a right handed shooter ease of laying the head across the comb of the stock to use the left eye when shooting.
LD
What you mention is what we in the UK call a cross eyed stock to make one needs a highly skilled gun maker the stock is the easy part but the furniture and mainly the lock are the hard part because they have to be shaped to the contour of the stock.
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not sercure a chicken house door
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There is at least one example of an 18th century crossover stock I am aware of. It is German by Houell of Zella circa 1715.
It is out of the cabinet of arms of the Duke of Brunswick and in the Royal Armouries. The only piece of furniture involving any alteration is the rear part of the trigger guard. Everything else is as normal including the lock.
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OK GREAT, thanks Mario. That gives three examples, counting in Feltwad's flint conversion to caplock.
LD
Here is just a few more off the top of my head.
1. Sporting gun by Thomas Richards c. 1750 (Keith Neal's collection)
2. Fowling piece by John Lett c 1775 (Keith Neal's collection)
3. Fowling piece by Griffin c.1765 molds on hand at The Rifle Shoppe
I do not think you will find any off the shelf left guns for the average joe that made their way to America. Possible that one was ordered of London by a Planter as I have seen some very specific orders but to date I am not familiar with any left guns.
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Accessiors
4lb of gun powder 10 shillings
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door
Thi is more than a little bit of a tangent, but I did some math and.........
British coins of 1845 were .925 fine silver. A shilling coin had 0.1682 Troy ounces of silver. Ten shillings would be 1.682 ounces of silver. Silver has been taking a beating (read manipulated) the last couple weeks, but had been around $40 an ounce.
At $40/ounce, ten shillings has $67.28 in silver value. Four pounds of Goex powder at Friendship last month cost $64 ($16 a pound). Thus, black powder today costs almost exactly what it cost in 1845!
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Accessiors
4lb of gun powder 10 shillings
Feltwad
. Four pounds of Goex powder at Friendship last month cost $64 ($16 a pound). Thus, black powder today costs almost exactly what it cost in 1845!
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Hear in the UK the cheapest black powder averages at £10 a lb which for 4lb would be £40
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not sercure a chicken house door
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so 4 pounds = 40 pounds? I am confused.
What is the exchange on that- pounds to dollars, do you know?
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Riley.
£40 sterling = $61.84 US dollars
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door
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Thanks again, and on another forum some of the folks have chimed in that they shoot "right" locked guns left handed, without problems. Makes sense for the folks with SxS fowlers would be doing the same when firing the left side barrel and lock, although right handed. So I can advise a couple of my left handed friends that perhaps they should consider trying a right-locked rifle, especially if the price is a good one.
LD