Post by: Muley on February 25, 2012, 10:35:02 AM
I'm thinking my GPR flint is a gun that never existed, but i'm not sure.
Post by: sse on February 25, 2012, 10:47:30 AM
Post by: Captchee on February 25, 2012, 11:31:48 AM
It should also be noted that there were a lot of ½ stock flintlocks .
Most notably English , German and French sporting guns. None of which are exactly like a Hawkens rifle but some are close in stock shape
here is a 1/2 stock flinter for you
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/documentation/GustavusErichsonflinlock1838-1.jpg)
Gustavus Erichson was a gun maker, gunsmith, and gun dealer in Houston from 1838 until 1872. Two of his sons, Otto and Alexander, continued the business until the 1890s.
An amazing rifle has just been discovered hidden away in the vault at the Sam Houston Memorial Museum in Huntsville, Texas. An original flintlock rifle that appears to have been stocked in Houston as early as 1840 and stamped G. ERICHSON HOUSTON. TEXAS. on the lock and the barrel. Mounted in iron with a pewter nosecap, stocked in walnut. This large rifle measures 61 inches overall and has a 43 5/8", .51 caliber, swamped barrel. The rifle is in fine shape and, at this time, is the only known Texas marked flintlock sporting rifle.
This extremely fine rifle has G. ERICHSON HOUSTON TEXAS stamped on the percussion lockplate. The parts and workmanship are undoubtedly that of the Higgins family of gunmakers from Georgia. Robert Higgins, of this family, was located in Henderson, TX (1857 - 1860) and Beaumont, TX (1870 - 1890). A strong possibility exists that the lock could have been purchased from Erichson's store and the rifle was built by Robert Higgins
Post by: Muley on February 25, 2012, 11:44:06 AM
Post by: trg on February 25, 2012, 12:32:52 PM
Post by: Captchee on February 25, 2012, 12:44:16 PM
Leman , Henry , Derringer and countless others made such rifles .
The differences come in shaping and hardware and barrel choices .
At first glance they are all near the same and thus today most any half stock is called a Hawkens Rifle. But in fact they are not.
See Hawkens was a maker not a style of rifle .
As such they had their own distinct characteristics which can be seen in the trigger guards , butt plates , drop of the stock , lines of the stock as well as lock choices .
What set Hawkens guns above others was their reputation for quality .
However simply put what they were making was a Plains rifle also know a sporting rifle . A style not specifically unique to Hawkens.
How should I put this ????/”thinking “
See rifle design have a lineage that depicts a given set of characteristics.
That linage comes from the old schools . So while lets say a given rifle may be a Derrick , Isaac Haines , Bevin’s ….. even though those rifles are in ways unique to those makers . They are still classified by a school or area . IE Lancaster or one of the other schools which had their own traits that were distinctly their own .
So when we see a half stock rifle we aren’t necessarily see Hawkens because people were not copying or using a Hawkens style. What they were doing was they same thing Hawkens was doing IE using a sporting / plains rifle design with their one distinct twist and quality
here is a quick link that may help you understand what im struggling to get across .
as you look at all these rifles , Note that None are Hawkens guns . yet today , with very little acceptation , many folks would call them Hawkens , even though they are not .
simply put a person could place an actual Hawkens made rifle into this list and unless a person was reading the documentation or new the distinct and subtle characteristics that were common to Hawkens the maker , a person would not know the difference by looking at the photo.
So what we are left with is again Hawkens being a maker NOT a school of design
http://www.texasguntrade.com/texassportingrifles.htm
so now the real question ; did the Hawkens brothers make a flintlock , half stock rifle in their shop ?
some say yes , others say no .
so it just depends on what side of the fence you fall on .
but if we realize that Hawkens wasn’t doing anything design wise that was truly and completely unique as far as style goes . Then the question is ; were there half stock plains and sporting rifles . To that question the answer is a clear Yes
Post by: Muley on February 25, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
I was under the impression at the time that the GPR was close to a Hawken in style, but of course it wasn't a copy. At one time I thought about getting a Don Stith kit, and building a better copy of a Hawken. I don't think I have the talent to do the kit justice, so I never did it. I saw two pictures once of a real Hawken, and a GPR that was reworked to look close to a Hawken. It looked pretty close in the pictures. Close being the key word, but it did look a lot better than the original GPR.
I would still like to do that. Rework a GPR to look more like a Hawken. However, I don't want to do it with a flint. I always wanted to try a flint, and i'm glad I did it. I should have just tried someone else's gun first though. Caplocks are more my style, and so far I don't feel comfortable hunting with a flint. I know they can be dependable, but I don't want to worry about my gun going off when I have an elk/deer in my sights.
I don't see a classified forum here, so I hope it's ok to say this here. I'd like to sell this gun. The bad part for most is it's a LH model. GPR flint .50 cal. About 20 shots taken. I bought it new and have only had it a few days. I'd be willing to trade for same in a caplock, or even the barrel and lock. Mine is a good accurate barrel. Sell it outright is an option too.
Post by: R.M. on February 25, 2012, 03:37:26 PM
Post by: Captchee on February 25, 2012, 03:49:27 PM
right now , when your new to them , it may seem like there is alot to learn . but soon it will become 2nd nature and no more complicated then placing a cap on your caplock
Post by: BEAVERMAN on February 25, 2012, 04:07:50 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
Personally Muley, once you get to know that flintlock thus have shot it enough to become confident in the reliability , you should in fact have more faith in its reliability then with a cap lock.
right now , when your new to them , it may seem like there is alot to learn . but soon it will become 2nd nature and no more complicated then placing a cap on your caplock
I agree with Cap here Muley, give it some range time and you may find that your going to like that rock lock, do you have anybody close in your area that shoots flinters on a regular basis to go with you and learn ya some rock lock tips and tricks?
Post by: Muley on February 25, 2012, 04:30:33 PM
Plus, I have a gun that may have never existed. The same gun in a caplock would have killed the deer, and been more authentic at rendezvous. I should have thought out buying a flint better. My bad.
Post by: Captchee on February 25, 2012, 04:49:56 PM
Quote
I thought I had it figured out at the range yesterday. Today I went hunting for a few hours for does. I had a nice one in my sights at 40 yds. My load was 90gr of Goex 2F with 4F in the pan, a new flint, and a clean barrel. It should have been a dead deer. Not even a flash in the pan. I got no ignition at all, but saw it spark. The deer heard me and took off. Just as a test I cocked it and fired again. It went off perfect. That baffles me, and I lost a deer with a problem I don't know how to fix.
Plus, I have a gun that may have never existed. The same gun in a caplock would have killed the deer, and been more authentic at rendezvous. I should have thought out buying a flint better. My bad.
or your gun would have went POP or just click . you never can tell .
may be just me but it sounds to me like your flint isnt sharp and thus throwing inconsistent spark . there should always be a full shower of sparks not just one or two.
myself i have never seen anyone or trained anyone who learned a flintlock in a day at the range . it takes time to understand the things that need to be maintained .
As to the gun never existing ?
Is it a Hawkens ? Nope . Is it close , yes . At least as close as your going to get from a lot of builders and defiantly the closest your going to find in a production gun
Post by: Muley on February 25, 2012, 05:07:51 PM
With real BP. I've never had a caplock fail to fire. I'm more comfortable with them for hunting. I'm not the type to ever give up, but I think it's best this time.
Post by: Captchee on February 25, 2012, 05:30:04 PM
Every flint is not the same a person also has to learn what makes a good flint . How the edge should lock . How its supposed align with the jaws
Again it takes time to learn .
All I can tell you with certainty is that I don’t own a cap lock rifle . Have not for 20+ years .
Anyway . I don’t think you will have a problem selling it and if your certain your better of with a cap lock , ha 2 thumbs up
be safe
Post by: Muley on February 25, 2012, 05:48:53 PM
I think flints are fun to shoot, but at my age I can't pass up too many good shots at game, because of gun failure. Maybe i'll get a long rifle flint for shoots, and use a caplock for hunting.
No hard decisions have been made yet. Except to sell the GPR flint.
Post by: BEAVERMAN on February 25, 2012, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: "Muley"
I understand all you're saying, but why did it fire on the second attempt? I also loaded it 3 times after that, and it fired normally. If it had continued to fail I would blame the flint too.
I think flints are fun to shoot, but at my age I can't pass up too many good shots at game, because of gun failure. Maybe i'll get a long rifle flint for shoots, and use a caplock for hunting.
No hard decisions have been made yet. Except to sell the GPR flint.
Might as well take a couple pics of her and get her listed here on the Trade Blanket then!
Post by: Muley on February 25, 2012, 10:23:19 PM
Post by: BEAVERMAN on February 25, 2012, 11:19:09 PM
Post by: Muley on February 25, 2012, 11:37:33 PM
That, or find someone with a caplock that wants to trade? Anybody?
Post by: Stormrider51 on February 26, 2012, 12:56:23 AM
Don't get me wrong, I think you should go with whatever makes you happy. We all accept a large handicap when we choose a muzzleloading rifle in the first place. Flinters can seem more frustrating than percussions at first. But once you get the hang of a flinter you may well wonder why you ever even considered anything else.
Storm
Post by: rickevans on February 26, 2012, 03:52:47 AM
Post by: forest on February 26, 2012, 09:15:49 PM
I can,t tell you what to do and, wouldn't if I could, but then I have never owned a trad. Cap muzzy just 1 flinter with a second on order. I had to teach my self to shoot it so I know it can be frustating but I would never go back.
Forrest
Post by: Muley on February 26, 2012, 09:57:30 PM
Post by: Bigsmoke on February 26, 2012, 10:39:49 PM
Here is the URL for the guy that makes it
http://pioneerarms.tripod.com/id3.html (http://pioneerarms.tripod.com/id3.html)
Not sure if he makes a lefty or not.
John
Post by: Muley on February 26, 2012, 11:22:01 PM
Post by: pathfinder on February 27, 2012, 08:27:40 AM
Quote from: "Muley"
I haven't given up yet. Unless it sells before I figure it out.Nothing to "figure out" Sometime's SH** just happens! I think if any thing,there was "stuff"on the frizzen,condensate,dew,schmutz or ?. But do what you want.
Not to seem or sound criticle,but focusing on missing the deer appears to be what bothers you the most. One of the lore's of hunting with a flinter is the experiance that goes with the gun. Have I,the GREAT and POWERFUL Pathfinder ever had miss fire's while having a critter in my sight's? YOU BET!! Critter 1, Pathfinder 0! Still,had a wonderful and soul clearing time in the wood's! You wish the animal well,wipe the Frizzen,make a fire,cook lunch,and smile!
Again,dont mean to offend at all.
Post by: Muley on February 27, 2012, 10:29:53 AM
However, in today's economy. I now need the meat too. A nice elk will feed me for a long time.
Not offended at all. That deer was important though, because I was getting it for a land owner. If I don't do my job of thinning out the deer for him. I won't get a voucher next year. Less meat again. I have until Wed to get one. The flint has one more chance to get it done.
Post by: Hermit on February 27, 2012, 10:44:51 AM
Quote from: "Muley"
I haven't given up yet. Unless it sells before I figure it out.I've found that if you use 3fg these patn. breech flint guns are more reliable, as the breech has an attnd. to bridge over and not get to the bottom, so you have a misfire about 1/3 of the time!
Post by: Muley on February 27, 2012, 11:16:49 AM
Quote from: "Hermit"
Quote from: "Muley"I haven't given up yet. Unless it sells before I figure it out.I've found that if you use 3fg these patn. breech flint guns are more reliable, as the breech has an attnd. to bridge over and not get to the bottom, so you have a misfire about 1/3 of the time!
Which is why I want to convert it to a caplock. I've had two other GPR's in caplocks. I never had a problem with the patent breech, or using 2F powder. Even Pyrodex would be reliable. I just got my order of Goex BP. I can't afford to not use it.
Post by: pathfinder on February 27, 2012, 12:33:59 PM
I also get were your comming from and wanting to use a traditional gun to do your harvesting. Cap OR flint,it's not a matter of IF it will miss fire,but WHEN. Had it happen with both,but never with my Henry .22 mag!
Post by: Muley on February 27, 2012, 12:55:05 PM
I'm leaving for the range now to try again. I used lead to hold the flint. I pounded out a ball for the lead. A little bigger hole in the liner. (5/64) Plus, a few new ideas I want to try.
My fingers are crossed.
Post by: greyhunter on February 27, 2012, 02:29:50 PM
Post by: shootrj2003 on January 31, 2013, 11:40:48 AM
I'll say this until this year,my BP hunting was mostly done with a capper,I had flinters but used them mostly on the range once in a while, and surely not in inclement weather,I was stuck on the idea they were way unreliable,,Truth is ,I was way unreliable just a learning curve that I just would would not go into.I'm still into the curve but my feelings about flints have have increased exponentially along with the reliability of the rifles I own,last few years was a Blueridge .36 given to me by a dead friend and this year a Lyman GPR .50 which is my coyote rifle right now but a deer rifle this season coming.Mostly just getting over the false idea that they are not. Dependable.
Post by: pathfinder on January 31, 2013, 05:35:49 PM
Quote from: "Muley"
You can't use a .22 here for deer.
Here either,but we were talking deer taken to feed you when times were TOUGH! When your "life" depend's on it,you use whatever you have to to insure you eat. And if it's THAT important to make meat,I'd use a bazooka if I had one,flintlock bazooka,of course! Hee Hee!
Be well!
Pathfinder
Ps,how goes the adventure with the flinter,still have it or were you able to get the caplock?
Post by: Cannonball on February 01, 2013, 11:24:13 AM
Quote from: "Captchee"
However simply put what they were making was a Plains rifle also know a sporting rifle . A style not specifically unique to Hawkens.
So Cap, my T/C "Hawken" is actually referred to as a "Sporting" Rifle or "Plains" Rifle? Thanks that helps. I also hadn't realized how late in the era this style gun was popular. Nice to know so I don't have issues at rendevous' that have higher expectations of accuracy.
I think this leads to a new thread in another area of the forum.
Post by: rollingb on February 02, 2013, 12:17:22 PM
Steel trigger guard,........
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categorie ... -HAWK-TC-I (http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/928/1/TG-HAWK-TC-I)
Steel butt plate
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categorie ... /BP-TC-H-I (http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/694/1/BP-TC-H-I)
Steel forend cap
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categorie ... -TC-R-15-I (http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/799/1/FC-TC-R-15-I)
Flint lock
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categorie ... CK-LR-03-F (http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/759/1/LOCK-LR-03-F)
Also add a non-adjustable rear sight, and plain blade front sight, to your TC (check out the sights available from Track of the Wolf),.... and you will be on your way to having a TC that more closely resembles the "sporting rifles",... and/or "plains rifles", like the ones pictured in Captchee's link below......
http://www.texasguntrade.com/texassportingrifles.htm (http://www.texasguntrade.com/texassportingrifles.htm)
Post by: shootrj2003 on February 05, 2013, 10:54:28 AM
I thought about it for awhile and it hit me,did you take your bundle of sweet grass and light it it and let the smoke coat it real good before the hunt?when things like this happen,with no good explanation it helps to cover your bases with the old ways!I do it the night before and in the morning before the sun comes up(hey,can't hurt!)
Post by: greggholmes on February 05, 2013, 07:47:16 PM
http://www.daytraco.com/Products/Four-piece-conversion-kit__F4.aspx
(http://www.daytraco.com/images/convkit.jpg)
Post by: RobD on March 18, 2013, 08:53:21 AM
Quote from: "Muley"
... However, in today's economy. I now need the meat too. A nice elk will feed me for a long time. ...
having shot both cap and rock locks since the mid 60's. "reliability" hasta do mostly with gear and gear user - both need to be in accord, and there are pitfalls to overcome for both, but one *MUST* train and practice until both the machine and operator can acquire 99% reliability. that could take a few weeks, but preparation efforts and time well spent.
best of luck to ya!
Post by: sse on March 18, 2013, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: "rfd"
Quote from: "Muley"... However, in today's economy. I now need the meat too. A nice elk will feed me for a long time. ...
well, for hunting reliablity another olde tyme way, there's always moving up notch to a bpcr rifle! :rt th
(http://i.imgur.com/cLoTwBd.jpg)
having shot both cap and rock locks since the mid 60's. "reliability" hasta do mostly with gear and gear user - both need to be in accord, and there are pitfalls to overcome for both, but one *MUST* train and practice until both the machine and operator can acquire 99% reliability. that could take a few weeks, but preparation efforts and time well spent.
best of luck to ya! :bl th up
Post by: RobD on March 18, 2013, 09:09:59 AM
Post by: Riley/MN on March 18, 2013, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: "sse"
Quote from: "rfd"Quote from: "Muley"... However, in today's economy. I now need the meat too. A nice elk will feed me for a long time. ...
well, for hunting reliablity another olde tyme way, there's always moving up notch to a bpcr rifle! :rt th
(http://i.imgur.com/cLoTwBd.jpg)
having shot both cap and rock locks since the mid 60's. "reliability" hasta do mostly with gear and gear user - both need to be in accord, and there are pitfalls to overcome for both, but one *MUST* train and practice until both the machine and operator can acquire 99% reliability. that could take a few weeks, but preparation efforts and time well spent.
best of luck to ya! :bl th up
Sweet, yes. Inappropriate for our forum however. rfd, you are new here, so no problem, but please refrain from the posting of modern (suppository) firearms. Thanks
Post by: RobD on March 18, 2013, 11:07:02 AM
Quote from: "Riley/MN"
Sweet, yes. Inappropriate for our forum however. rfd, you are new here, so no problem, but please refrain from the posting of modern (suppository) firearms. Thanks
my bad, mea culpa, i apologize.
Post by: Riley/MN on March 18, 2013, 12:36:59 PM
Post by: sse on March 18, 2013, 03:04:10 PM
Post by: Muley on November 21, 2013, 11:30:04 PM
Post by: greyhunter on November 22, 2013, 07:43:49 AM
Post by: ridjrunr on November 22, 2013, 10:23:55 AM
IMO, yer idea of 3F for both may very well work. I have never tried that but believe a couple people in my local club have been doing that with success for a while. Just remember,most all BP guns are different as to what they like to make them reliable. I would say also it's going to very between lock manufacturer as well, so it'll take some trial and error.
As far as the muddy pan issue. Hard to get away from. Change yer charge often.
As GH said you can fiddle with mating the surfaces of the pan to frizzen but go at it very slowly, it would be easy to make it worse if you take off too much material.
Good luck and let us know how things develope .
Post by: rollingb on November 22, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
Quote from: "Muley"
Well, I took a vacation from this forum, but I see the thread lived on without me. After reading it again I sure was whining about the flintlock. Kind of embarrassing. :|I only use one powder in my flinters (rifles AND smoothbores) and that is Goex FFFG,.... as long as I keep the vent "picked" and change priming ever so often, very seldom do I ever have a problem with performance.
Post by: 45.70 on November 28, 2013, 12:52:08 PM
I've been shooting flints for about 3 years or so and only use FFF for charge and pan, I've had good success so far. But, it took about a year before I could make them shoot reliably and I still have a miss fire occasionally. (The misfires are normally operator error) :lol sign Good luck with your flinter, once I got my two shooting good, I'm hooooked. It's absolutely addicting.
Garry
Post by: Muley on November 28, 2013, 01:00:46 PM
), and fit a better lock to it. I was going to do that last time, but bailed out instead.
Post by: Muley on November 28, 2013, 09:07:58 PM
Anybody try the Old Eynsford? It's only $1.00 more than the regular Goex.
Post by: prairie dog on November 28, 2013, 09:49:30 PM
I've hunted with percussion guns for about 30 years and I've had a few misfires with them. I had just about given up trying to kill a turkey. A deer 60 - 70 yards out doesn't always spook at the sound of a hammer falling on a misfire, but a turkey at 25 yards doesn't give you a second chance. However, I stuck with it, learned what was causing the occasional misfire, and corrected it.
I was never very interested in flintlocks because I'd heard they were less reliable than a cap lock and that the quality of the lock on most production guns was poor at best. I didn't think I wanted anything to do with a flint gun.
Three or four years ago I joined a muzzle loading gun club and begin to shoot in monthly matches. I discovered a wealth of expertise and experience existed within the membership of this club. Many of the members of the TMA also posses this same knowledge, experience, and willingness to share. But for me, seeing it is better than talking about it.
In any event, I have a neighbor and new best buddy who shoots in this club and hunts exclusively with flintlocks. He and the other flintlock shooters in the club have shown me that a flintlock properly loaded and cared for is very reliable. The most impressive demonstration of flintlock shooting I have ever witnessed took place at the Frozen Foot Rendezvous in 2011. It rained all day, all weekend. One of the rifle targets required shooting your rifle held upside down, above your head, and hitting the target. I don't remember how many shooters hit that target, but I do remember that every flintlock rifle went off without a single hang-fire or misfire. Upside down, and in the rain no less.
What I have learned by watching these guys is that flintlocks are no less reliable. They are just more involved than percussion guns. There are more items and details that have to be done right. I've also noticed that all these guys are shooting custom rifles with locks from makers with a reputation for quality.
I purchased my flintlock Chief's gun a few months ago with confidence in the builder and knowing I had the benefit of the expertise of flintlock masters to guide me through the learning curve. Without these guys to show me how, I would never have tried to learn to shoot a flintlock.
So far, I am getting along with my gun very well and it is becoming my favorite. But I know that if I have problems with it there are several experts right next to me who are more than willing to show me how to solve that issue.
You mentioned moisture and dampness in the priming. What I have been told is 4-f powder absorbs moisture faster than larger granulation. My friend loads and primes all his flintlocks with 3-f. When he hunts in damp weather or rain he keeps his vent plugged with a feather quill. Just before the shot he removes the feather, wipes the frizzen and pan with a dry cloth, and primes with 2-f powder. He says the 2-f powder is slower to absorb moisture and ignites just as easily if the lock is sparking properly. I don't know about all that, but I do know I've seen him shoot in a heavy rain with his rifle upside down and it worked fine.
This past June I attended the Texas State muzzle loading competition. Just down the line from me was a fellow shooting flintlocks and his guns had the fastest ignition of any flintlock shooter I have seen. I had a chance to visit with him and he was more than willing to share his knowledge with me. The most important thing I learned was that every flintlock has it's own particular variables. For instance, where the priming powder is placed in the pan can effect the speed of ignition. One lock fires faster if the powder is placed near the outside edge of the pan, another is faster with the powder placed in the center of the pan and another may perform best with the prime closer to the barrel.
I have been experimenting with my gun and some of these variables. I've learned that it ignites fastest with a prime of 4-f placed in the center of the pan. It also ignites faster with a load of 2-f than it does with a load of 3-f. I think I understand why this is so, but it may only be so for my particular gun.
I no longer believe flintlocks are less reliable than percussion guns. I have learned there are a lot more variables involved with loading and shooting flintlocks and the learning curve is tougher if you don't have someone to show you how it's done.
It's going to take some shooting and getting to know your flintlock before you get it all together. These guys here are a good resource but the best advice is to find a club or group of flintlock shooters who have already got it figured out. They will be more than happy to help out a new flintlock convert.
Post by: Muley on November 28, 2013, 10:06:38 PM
One thing though. I'm a still hunter, and I only hunt the dark timber. My dad taught me to hunt that way in the early 50's, and i've never had a desire to do it any other way.
I mention this, because my gun needs to be ready to fire at all times. A lot on my shots are quick, and I have no time to prime the pan. It's cock the hammer, shoulder, and shoot. Sometimes that's too slow.
That creates a problem with priming the pan just right. The prime is going to get moved around as i'm hunting. This is something I need to get worked out.
Post by: Captchee on November 29, 2013, 07:32:19 AM
Muley.
myself im a stalking type hunter . The weather here during the hunting seasons can range from hot and dry to pouring rain , heavy fog or blowing snow.
It really is one of those areas where if you don’t like the weather right now , wait a few minutes and it will be completely different .
I always have my rifle primed regardless of the weather and I only prime with 4 F .
In doing so there are some things I have had to learn .
1) always protect your lock no mater what the weather . I don’t use a cows knee as I find them cumbersome and to hard to get off when a quick shot is called for . What I do is carry the lock section up under my arm or roll the gun over so that the lock is down .
. If the day calls for still hunting then ill grease the lid of the frizzen just alittle . But at the same time keep it protected
2) check your prime often . Its very easy to lose powder while walking even if you have a tight fit frizzen . Also as Steve mentioned , 4F draws moisture quicker then 3 or 2. So if my prime looks to be getting alittle damp , I dump it and re prime
3) I also have came to the very strong opinion that unlike a cap lock , if a flintlock doesn’t go off , its 99% of the time , shooter error . As such I take great pains to insure that prior to heading out , I check to make sure my flint is tight , positioned properly and sharp . That the frizzen is clean of all oils . I wipe it down with a fresh cleaning patch then put that patch in my pocket or rifle pouch so I can have something to wipe the frizzen with throughout the day if I so feel the need . I never wipe the frizzen face with my thumb or finger . I know some folks do and it works for them . I guess my skin is just to oily as I have found It increases ignition issues for me
4) I check my vent to insure that there is powder there and that the hole is not obstructed
5) I empty and replace the main charge every day and never go out with an old load . IE if I go back to camp for lunch , ill then also replace my load with a fresh on and then re check everything before I head back out
Steve also brought up feathering the touch hole . Very seldom do I do that . But I have and it works . I actually went to an even one time where we had to cross a river and then fire at a target on the far bank . One of the fellas slipped and went under with his rifle . Luckily he had his touch hole feathered and when he came out on the far bank , he simply dumped the water out of his bore . Wiped his pan dry . Re primed and fired . The gun went off without a hitch ..
a lot of people also think that moisture can foul the main charge by going down the barrel . IMO this is only true if your shooting a conical . With a PRB its pretty darn hard for the water to get past the patch .
That leaves only the vent as a source . .
But again this all comes back to two things .
A)You knowing what your gun likes
B) you doing your part .
Post by: sse on November 29, 2013, 09:37:55 AM
Some fellas never experienced a misfire, but most had occasional or regular misfires, and some of those had to quit the shoot. I always knew that there was something that those guys weren't looking after, and as mentioned, the reasons always seemed to be a mystery. So, it was a simple matter of not having the awareness of the idiosyncrasies that were to blame. And as suggested by many comments here, that awareness does not come easy, though I'm sure some have a knack for learning or improvising to get reliable ignition. Plus, the problem could be a combination of factors, with the causes and solutions unfathomable to the shooter. Even for the experienced shooter, he can step up to lend a hand or try a few things to see what happens, but he really has no idea what is going on with that particular lock. Lastly, the lock mechanism may not be functioning properly or is just defective or of a lesser quality than is needed to produce reliable ignition.
In general, these types of challenges are the reason most of us enjoy shooting traditional so much. But not all shooters like having to deal with these issues or have to patience or desire to overcome them, at least that is what I see on the line.
Post by: Muley on December 01, 2013, 12:53:14 PM
I spent most of my money buying the gun. So, it will take me awhile to get everything I need to shoot it. Good thing it's the middle of winter.
I need powder, bag, horn, powder measure, touch hole pick, flints, napper, balls, patches, ball puller, and cleaning patches. What am I forgetting?
I sold everything, so I have to start over again.
Oh, I need to get GPR primitive rear sight too. It has a Lyman 57 GPR peep sight on it now, and it looks just wrong. Too modern and bulky. I'm as blind as a bat, but i'll just get closer, and use proper sights.
Post by: ridjrunr on December 01, 2013, 01:19:27 PM
Post by: Muley on December 01, 2013, 01:29:23 PM
Post by: 45.70 on December 02, 2013, 08:57:30 PM
I took out my flintlock .62 cal. trade gun to do some squirrel hunting over T day weekend and had a misfire with her. After a few years working on the range and killing a hog with this gun I still got caught up in the moment and forgot to take the frizzen cover off before I shot at a squirrel. After I heard the clunck and didn't hear a boom, I looked down and had to laugh at myself. Luckily the squirrel didn't go far and I was able to bring him to the ground. I just had to relay this to you because the flint guns are a lot of fun and reading some of your earlier post, I thought you might have a good laugh. Good luck with your new rifle and happy hunting!
v/r Garry
Post by: Muley on December 02, 2013, 09:01:51 PM
Post by: prairie dog on December 04, 2013, 11:08:17 AM
Post by: Muley on December 04, 2013, 11:27:38 AM
Post by: Captchee on December 04, 2013, 01:14:58 PM
trade rifles , are rifled bores .
IE a NW trade gun , Mackinaw or Carolina gun were smooth bores .
While the Leman trade rifle , Derringer trade rifle and others were actual rifles .
the MM used both
Post by: Muley on December 04, 2013, 01:20:29 PM
Post by: 45.70 on December 07, 2013, 10:43:12 AM
Sorry I lost this tread and just read your reply, my trade gun is a smoothbore with no rear sight. Basically a 20 gauge shotgun. I have several .32 and .50 cal rifles percussion and flint, but I've really come to like my flint smoothbore. I can shoot a prb, of course the range is only about 50yds, or I can switch to shot for squirrel, rabbit, and turkey. Seems like my hand magically gravitates to it when I'm getting something out of the safe to go hunting. I'm not sure about shooting a tree down,
but I shot a 89ish lbs hog last year and and the ball penetrated all the way thru her ribs and out the left shoulder. I posted a pic of the hog somewhere on the TMA, but here's a pic of her again. It was the first animal I ever harvested with my trade gun.Good luck, Garry
Post by: rollingb on December 07, 2013, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: "45.70"
Muley,
Sorry I lost this tread and just read your reply, my trade gun is a smoothbore with no rear sight. Basically a 20 gauge shotgun. I have several .32 and .50 cal rifles percussion and flint, but I've really come to like my flint smoothbore. I can shoot a prb, of course the range is only about 50yds, or I can switch to shot for squirrel, rabbit, and turkey. Seems like my hand magically gravitates to it when I'm getting something out of the safe to go hunting. I'm not sure about shooting a tree down, :rt th
Post by: Uncle Russ on December 08, 2013, 04:06:44 PM
There's an old saying that goes something like, "yea though I walk through the Valley of huge stinky creatures and great big mean animals, I will fear no evil, for I carryeth a big ol' smoothbore!"...well, maybe it doesn't go exactly like that, but you get the message.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: 45.70 on December 08, 2013, 07:26:05 PM
Thanks, that old ugly smoothy is my favorite. To be honest I like her because she always go's bang ( as long as I do my part) and she really fit's me. It's hard to explain, but every once in a while you pick up a gun and it just fit's you and never fails you. She's not pricey or fancy, but she's my go to gun. I hope Muley finds the same in his new .54 cal.
Happy hunting to all, Garry
Post by: Muley on February 17, 2014, 09:30:07 PM
That put me back to square one again. I started to save money for a gun. After thinking about it I decided I didn't want another GPR. At 71 years old the weight is getting a little tough to haul around the Rockies at 11,000ft+. Plus, it a bit long for the deep dark timber I like to still hunt. Something a bit shorter and lighter would be better.
I ended up buying a Renegade .50. Don't kill me. It's a caplock. It was too nice of a gun to pass up. I know I wimped out. No excuse, but at least i'm being honest with you.
I'd like to shoot in the monthly shoots. It will get me ready for hunting season in the fall, and way more fun than just practicing.
That's it. I'm back with a caplock. :oops:
Post by: sse on February 17, 2014, 09:54:15 PM
Quote
Don't kill me.
Watch yer top knot...we're gonna track ya down...LOL
Post by: Muley on February 17, 2014, 10:00:14 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on February 17, 2014, 10:25:06 PM
Quote from: "Muley"
Time to go in my secret cave, and lay low.No need for that Muley. :hairy
Uncle Russ...
Post by: dmills on March 18, 2014, 11:06:22 PM
Post by: sse on March 19, 2014, 05:42:00 PM
Quote from: "dmills"
Thank you RussB for reactivating this thread. And thank you all for the discussions. I am expecting to receive my first flintlock on Thursday of this week. It's a .45 Pedersoli Kentucky. I am looking forward to acquiring the skills to do this.Exciting...