Post by: rickevans on May 07, 2012, 12:35:40 PM
Those of you who run this way, where do you start?
I was using a .610 RB with .018 patching. It was tight down the bore, so I bought some .600 RB. It shot well, but I never really shot much past 50 yards.
Yesterday at the range I thought I'd try something new, so with 70gr of 2F, a 1/8" carboard wad over the powder and one of those .600 RB rattling down the bore and another lubed 1/8" over the ball, I got 8" groups off-hand at 50 yards.
What to wad with? Wasp/hornet nest? Old leaves, grass, moss?
Pathfinder, are you out there? I might need a smoothbore session at the range.
Post by: pathfinder on May 07, 2012, 01:01:08 PM
In a barre lthat was excavated at the Grand Portage site in the Rainey River area,one barrel was "disected" and was found to be loaded with "buckshot"(sorry dont re-call the size) and was wadded with Beaver hair,according to the scientific test's.
I like using the tight fit patched ball method when competting, I LIKE WINNING!!!!,and want the most accurate shot placement when hunting!
A couple of trade gun partners of mine and myself will at time limit ourselve's to traditional bare ball and wadding on some wood's walk's,when one of us feel's as though his "Cahonie's" are getting a little large in the breach cloth area. That load when yer use to patched ballload will soon even everything out!
Which bring's up another point on shooting I'll continue in the "Shooting"area. See ya over there!
Post by: rickevans on May 07, 2012, 01:06:29 PM
Post by: pathfinder on May 07, 2012, 01:37:45 PM
Post by: rickevans on May 07, 2012, 09:15:11 PM
Post by: Capt. Jas. on May 07, 2012, 09:20:10 PM
Post by: rickevans on May 08, 2012, 08:22:01 AM
I will also go back to a larger more-to-bore-size CRB...
Post by: Hanshi on May 08, 2012, 02:42:45 PM
Post by: rickevans on May 08, 2012, 02:52:05 PM
Post by: Buzzard on May 11, 2012, 03:54:53 PM
Post by: rickevans on May 14, 2012, 09:32:25 AM
Post by: Longhunter on May 14, 2012, 04:32:37 PM
I tried a .600 patched ball and didn't get any better accuracy. I've got both wasp nest and tow so I'll be trying both of those to work up a hunting load.
I wrote a little ditty about the gun...
This gun she is a sweetheart, she shoots right where she should
She's plain with iron fittins and some right nice purdy wood
With ninety grains of powder an a hundred grains of shot
a turkey under 40 yards is destined for the pot
An with ninety grains of powder behind a .610 ball
a whitetail under a hundred yards is surly gonna fall
This gun is all I'll ever need to take on any critter
She's a shootin Jessie that's fer sure, a genuine game gitter
Post by: mario on May 14, 2012, 06:37:15 PM
Here is a bunch of info I've collected over the last few years on what was used in the 18th/19th century:
“Now search for Tow, and some old Saddle pierce:
No Wadding lies so close or drives so fierce.”
Pterypegia, or the Art of shooting Flying, 1727
It is the General's orders, that none of the men load with cartridges upon their regimental
parades but from these powder horns; AND TO HAVE WADDING ABOVE AND BELOW THE BALL, TO KEEP BOTH POWDER AND BALL FIRM IN THEIR PIECES." [emphasis mine]
John Knox, 1759 (Knox, pg 259)
“I observed here a kind of Moss I had never seen before; it grows in great Quantities upon the large Trees, and hangs down 3 or 4 Yards from the Boughs; it gives a noble, ancient and hoary Look to the Woods; it is of a whitish green Colour, but when dried, is black like Horse-hair. This the Indians use for wadding their Guns, and making their Couches soft under the Skins of Beasts, which serve them for beds. They use it also for Tinder, striking Fire by flashing the Pans of their Guns into a handful of it, and for all other Uses where old Linnen would be necessary.”
Moore, Francis. A Voyage to Georgia, Begun in the Year 1735. London: Jacob Robinson, 1744.
"...and Wadding equivalent to such cartridges..."
NY Militia Law, April 3, 1778
"A Winnipeg River find in 1967 proved to be a typical Northwest gun...charged with 22 dropped shot...with wadding probably of beaver hair."
Voices from the Rapids (Wheeler, 81)
"This charge was held in place by coarse cloth wadding...believe it dates from about 1820, plus or minus 10 years."
Granite River find, Voices from the Rapids(Wheeler, 67)
"...on being loaded to four inches including powder, shot &wadding..."
Philip Turnor, Letter to London Offices of HBC, 1779 (Tyrell, 258)
“As you might expect, parts from many Type G trade guns have been recovered in FL. I think the one that you are referring to and the one that is the most complete is the piece recovered from the Suwannee River at Running Springs by a river diver back in 2005. It was marked “Williams” on the lock, but no proof marks were found discernable on the barrel. It was 24 gauge or .58 cal. and the barrel was 46 ½” in length. It was octagon to round with a diameter of 1.2” at the breech. It was found loaded with a ball that looked to have been whittled down in size and palm or palmetto fiber appeared to be the wadding.”
E-mail from James Levy, a conservator working for the State of Florida.
We have now to speak of another species of wadding, which has novelty, at least, to recommend it ; but, in truth, it may be preferred to hat-wadding, for the principles of that equally apply to this, and it possesses one great advantage in the circumstance of not fouling the barrel so much as the other. The wadding to which we allude, is made of the cloth called fear-naught, or shepherd's cloth, which is very generally known, fitted to the bore of the piece by a punch; but it must not be dyed, for the acid which is said to set the colour, will rust the inside of the barrel immediately in contact with it, and especially if the gun is laid by charged. –
The Sporting Magazine October 1793
"By some persons much confidence has been placed in card, by others pieces of hat, or leather, cut to fit the bore exactly by an instrument for that purpose; but for these the cap of the ram-rod must be made nearly as large as the bore, in order to force them down even; and become difficult to ram down, when the gun is somewhat foul, besides occasioning delay when expedition is required. Tow and pieces of woollen cloth have also been used; but I have never found any thing so proper as a double piece of thin soft paper; this should be rammed down with some force upon the powder, and a stiffer paper upon the shot, in like manner; for the closer the charge is connected together, the greater will be the force:"
Montagu's Sportman's Directory 1792, pg 140 (Courtesy of Jim Mullins)
“Tow, I think, is uncertain. If cards be used, the end of your rammer must be almost as broad as your barrel will admit of, to go down free, and quite flat at the end, to prevent the card from turning. Old hat may be used in the same manner, which is rather better: and some say leather shreds are best. But I can not yet find any thing better, or so ready as thin brown paper, rubbed soft, and cut into pieces about one inch broad and two inches long; so that when it is once doubled, it is an inch square. I punch a small hole at the corner of each piece, put a sufficient quantity upon a key ring, hand them into my button-hole, and tear off one as I want it..."
Art of Shooting flying 1770 by T. Page Norwich, pg 9 (Courtesy of Jim Mullins)
"WADDING. MANY fportfmen are of opinion, that the wadding, of whatever material it may be compofed, or whether it be rammed loofe, or tight, into the barrel, has no effecT;, either on the range of the fhot, or the clofenefs with which they are thrown. Now, although it may be granted, that the material which covers the fhot, and which is ufed only for the purpofe of keeping it down, is of little importance*tance, yet, the fubftance which covers the powder, is, undoubtedly, of much confequence. It mould be quite clofe in the barrel, and that without being rammed too hard ; the wadding fhould therefore be of a foft and tractable material, but at the fame time of fiifficient confiftence, to carry the mot in a body, to a certain diftance from the muzzle of the piece. For, if the wadding is rammed too clofe, or is of a hard and rigid fubftance, fuch as ftiff brown paper, the piece will recoil, and the mot will fpread more wide : if, on the contrary, the wadding is not fufficiently clofe, and is compofed of a flight and too pliant a material, fiich as wool or cotton, it will not be of confiftence enough to carry the mot, and the difcharge will lofe its proper force. Befides, a certain portion of { he mot which is more immediately inin' contact with the wadding, will be melted by the explofion of the powder. In the former part of this treatife, where we treated of the Jbot of fowling- pieces, we have given our reafom for preferring wadding made of hat, by means of a punch fitted to the bore of the piece, to every other ; but as this is not eafily procured in fufficient quantity, we muft employ fomething that is at once cheap, and adequate to the purpofe. Next to hat, therefore, experience teaches, that nothing is better for wadding than foft brown paper; it combines fupplenefs with confiftence, and moulds itfelf to the barrel ; and it is further obfervable, that fuch wadding never falls to the ground, in lefs than twelve or fifteen paces from the
In countries where orchards abound, a very fine moss, of a greenish grey colour, is found adhering to the apple- trees, which is extremely proper for wadding, and which even possesses the extraordinary quality, of making the barrel less greasy and foul than paper, which always contains a certain quantity of oil. Tow is also very good for this purpose. Wool is nothing worth. A cork wadding has been extolled for the virtue of increasing the range and closeness of the shot of pieces; we have not made the experiment, but it seems probable, that a wadding of cork, adapted to the caliber of the piece may produce a greater effect, than a wadding of paper, in this respect, that by stopping the barrel more hermetically, it prevents the elastic fluid, produced by the explosion muzzle of the piece. lafion of the powder, from, escaping in any way, between the partition of wadding and the charge, and preserves all its force to the mouth of the gun. These principles have been already applied to the wadding of hat, and to which therefore we refer the reader.
An Essay on Shooting
CONTAINING:
The various Methods of forging, boring, and drefling Gun Barrels, practifed in France, Spain, and England, and the different Proofs of Barrels employed in thofe Countries; Edie, 1787 (Courtesy of Jim Mullins)
Mario
Post by: rickevans on May 15, 2012, 08:39:31 AM
Post by: Ironhand on May 15, 2012, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: "rickevans"
Also sounds like I need to hit the Thrift Stores for some old felt hats!
You might also look for old felt boot liners. They usually give a thicker wad.
Ironhand
Post by: greyhunter on May 16, 2012, 07:12:10 AM
Post by: rickevans on May 16, 2012, 08:27:05 AM
Wads from old felted hats? Sure. The fear-naught, or shepherd's cloth that Mario's citation references is "A stout kind of woolen cloth, used chiefly on board ship in the form of outside clothing in the most inclement weather,..." A New English Dictionary on Historical Principles: Founded Mainly ..., Volume 4, page 116
So, heavy woolen patches? OK. Tow, moss, leaves, bracken fern (here in northern Michigan...) all good. Even paper folded up and lubed(?).
Speaking with a friend on the phone about this yesterday, I would shoot the fusil with a good, tight, properly lubed patched RB to see just how accurate the weapon could be, then use various PC/HC methods to see how accuracy changed. Remember, the goal is to take a fat deer this fall, in conditions and with tools common to that time frame.
More to come.
Post by: rickevans on May 16, 2012, 08:39:32 AM
Do I understand this quote accurately in that in this instance, the men were to load from pouch and horn, and NOT use their stash of made up paper cartridges? Also, the fact that the Generals orders are to have wadding above and below the ball might indicate that such was not always the common practice?
"It is the General's orders, that none of the men load with cartridges upon their regimental
parades but from these powder horns; AND TO HAVE WADDING ABOVE AND BELOW THE BALL, TO KEEP BOTH POWDER AND BALL FIRM IN THEIR PIECES." [emphasis mine]
John Knox, 1759 (Knox, pg 259)