Post by: Loyalist Dave on May 30, 2012, 08:17:42 AM
LD
Post by: pathfinder on May 30, 2012, 10:05:00 AM
Post by: Capt. Jas. on May 31, 2012, 02:57:53 AM
Post by: mario on May 31, 2012, 03:12:01 AM
Even trade fuzees that were the least expensive and most cheaply made still had buttplates.
As Capt. Jas. stated, you may find a few cobbled together guns, but the product of a professional gunsmith had a full complement of furniture appropriate to the period.
Mario
Post by: Captchee on June 01, 2012, 10:07:41 AM
IMO the poor boy thing is also fairly modern idea , though I have seen a couple originals that did not have butt plates . But I would have to say that at least one looked to have had the butt cut down .
But as was also said , there may surly been some that were made under given reasoning or conditions that had the butt plates forgone .
About the only real difference I have noted between higher end and low end is the bright work , carving , inlays and engraving .
Thus the high end guns are very much nothing but a basic gun with added decoration . Especially concerning European guns of the time . If one looks today , you see basically the same differences between field grade and presentation grade
I would also disagree with the need of a butt plate or toe plate . My main rifle has neither and she is near 50 years old and seen a lot of use . the butt , heal and toe are all done in contrasting wood and its held up very well
Post by: huntinguy on June 02, 2012, 01:56:58 PM
Quote from: "Captchee"
My main rifle has neither and she is near 50 years old and seen a lot of use . the butt , heal and toe are all done in contrasting wood and its held up very well
Captchee: you got a picture of that? Sounds like you are saying that it has different wood inlaid.... That sounds like it would be a lot of work. Pretty, but a lot of work.
Post by: Captchee on June 02, 2012, 02:34:03 PM
here is the rifle i spoke of
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Rifles/DSC00486-Copy.jpg)
some years ago i had a customer who wanted something like that done on her rifle . here is a photo fo that rifle
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Aug0604.jpg)
Post by: RiverCat on June 03, 2012, 12:47:26 PM
Post by: sse on June 03, 2012, 01:14:16 PM
Post by: Ironhand on June 03, 2012, 02:47:36 PM
Post by: RiverCat on June 03, 2012, 11:02:56 PM
Post by: mario on June 03, 2012, 11:39:31 PM
Quote from: "Ironhand"
I have heard it said that Native Americans would remove the butt plate from a gun in order to use the metal for scrapers or knives. Any truth to this or is it just a tall tale?
Yes and no. Some did. Some didn't. It boils down to time, place and people. There are 500 or so tribal groups in North America.
What holds true for a Cheyenne in 1874 doesn't necessarily hold true for a Seminole in 1813 or a MicMac in 1702.
Mario
Post by: Captchee on June 04, 2012, 11:05:13 AM
Quote from: "mario"
Quote from: "Ironhand"I have heard it said that Native Americans would remove the butt plate from a gun in order to use the metal for scrapers or knives. Any truth to this or is it just a tall tale?
Yes and no. Some did. Some didn't. It boils down to time, place and people. There are 500 or so tribal groups in North America.
What holds true for a Cheyenne in 1874 doesn't necessarily hold true for a Seminole in 1813 or a MicMac in 1702.
Mario
actualy 500+ when you take into account the sub peoples of larger nations .
it drives me absolutely crazy when i hear someone say ; the Cheyenne did X or the Sioux did Y.
Just because a the Oglala people did something , it did not and does not mean the Miniconjou
Or Hu?kpapa did .
Same goes for Cheyenne. The Tsitsistas and Suhtai while of the same people , are not the same .
Also just because someone may have used a given tool in the late 19th century , doesn’t mean they used that same item as a tool even a decade before . Basically the item had to have become useless as its intended purpose or better suited for another purpose .
But we are talking about a weapon here . So while we may be able to say we have read or saw such an item being used as a scraper . Chance are probably very high that the weapon it came off of , had been reduced to non functioning and worthless before it would have ever been aloud to be reduced to the hands of a woman scraping hides ..
Even if we went so far as to say that a warrior might have believed that the butt plate had become contaminated or a detriment in a spiritual way . The item would have been cast aside and buried as was often the case with side plates .
The case could also be made that at the time of the butt plates use , it was not part of a rifle but simply a piece of metal to be utilized as seen fit .
A good example of that would be sections of damaged barrels which were often used as scrapers by the late 19the century among many different peoples .
But I seriously doubt that any warrior would have let his wife cut the end of his barrel off or remove a butt plate from a working piece ,for a scraper just because she needed one .