Post by: Swamp on July 09, 2012, 06:10:48 AM
Anyway, the cans look old, but the powder seems and looks like new. They were individually wrapped in plastic bags. Have any of you ever shot this old Hodgen BP before?
Post by: Roaddog on July 09, 2012, 06:35:57 AM
It workes just fine.
Post by: Stormrider51 on July 30, 2012, 11:26:28 PM
Storm
Post by: Stormrider51 on July 30, 2012, 11:36:32 PM
Your post bugged me and kept nagging at my mind until I did some research. I can find no reference to Hodgen black powder. As I'm sure you know a company named Hodgdon makes Pyrodex and 777 black powder substitutes. But what you have is real black powder? I'm real curious now!
Storm
Post by: Swamp on July 31, 2012, 08:06:06 AM
I did a google search and found this photo.
Post by: Stormrider51 on July 31, 2012, 09:55:40 AM
Storm
Post by: Captchee on July 31, 2012, 11:08:55 AM
its not to bad , about like DuPont IMO .
They stopped making it about the time duPont stopped and Goex took over .
Should be noted that Hodgdon is back in the BP game since they bought out Goex
Post by: Hanshi on July 31, 2012, 02:04:52 PM
Post by: Fletcher on July 31, 2012, 06:41:37 PM
Still use it in my mini flask to pour some down a plugged nipple and 'blow it out.
Used it as primer too, but all 3 of my flinters seem to like FFF better than FFFF for priming.
OBTW - I know Chris Hogdon - a grand son or more from the original. He has been great in supporting our Boy Scout shoots with 777 or Pyrodex since we cannot use true BP any more.
I also buy other Hodgon modern powders. I will have to ask him how long ago they quit making the 'real thing'!
Post by: Gambia on July 31, 2012, 09:32:27 PM
Quote
OBTW - I know Chris Hogdon - a grand son or more from the original. He has been great in supporting our Boy Scout shoots with 777 or Pyrodex since we cannot use true BP any more.
Why can't the Scouts in your area use real black powder anymore?
Post by: pathfinder on August 01, 2012, 11:01:42 AM
I have a very little left of some powder from the 1850's,and when shot at night,the flame look's redder than the modern black powder. I was told by the gun guy at Greenfeild Village that it was because they used Alder charcoal as the main ingredient.
Also heard that GOEX is going back to using Alder as the charcoal. It does shoot A LOT cleaner than the new stuff,at least it seam's so. I'm not a scientist.
Post by: rickevans on August 01, 2012, 12:13:37 PM
Quote
I have a very little left of some powder from the 1850's
So...was that when you was about 12 or 13 years old?
Post by: No Rod on August 01, 2012, 01:06:43 PM
Post by: Hanshi on August 01, 2012, 01:59:31 PM
Quote from: "rickevans"
Path said[/color]QuoteI have a very little left of some powder from the 1850's
So...was that when you was about 12 or 13 years old?
:rotf
Post by: Riley/MN on August 01, 2012, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: "Fletcher"
OBTW - I know Chris Hogdon - a grand son or more from the original. He has been great in supporting our Boy Scout shoots with 777 or Pyrodex since we cannot use true BP any more.
This would have to be a local restriction. Per National:
Quote
Boy Scout and Varsity Scout Muzzleloading Firearms
Because of the historical significance of muzzleloading
firearms, Scouts are encouraged to learn to safely load and
shoot a muzzleloader. On the range, each Scout must be
under the direct supervision (one on one) of a currently NRA
or NMLRA certified muzzleloading instructor when loading
and firing the muzzleloader.
Muzzleloading rifle. Only recently manufactured (or
assembled from a kit) percussion cap muzzleloading rifles
no greater than .58-caliber are to be used. Flintlock rifles
are not approved for use by Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts.
All muzzleloading rifles are subject to safety inspection by
the instructor or range officer. Rifles made from kits must be
checked by a qualified gunsmith.
Propellant. Only a commercially manufactured, sportinggrade
black powder or black powder substitute offered for sale
by a reputable firm should be used in muzzleloading rifles.
emphasis added by yourn truly...
Post by: prairie dog on August 15, 2012, 07:16:19 PM
National says they don't have such a rule. However, I know of no BSA camp that will allow either and they always state "it's against the rules". They won't tell you "whose rules".
Post by: Gambia on August 15, 2012, 08:27:06 PM
Here is the section of the Rifle Shooting Merit Badge pertaining to the muzzle loader option;
OPTION C --- MUZZLE - LOADING RIFLE SHOOTING
a. Discuss a brief history of the development of muzzle-loading rifles.
b. Identify principal parts of percussion and flintlock rifles and discuss how they function.
c. Demonstrate and discuss the safe handling rules of muzzle-loading rifles.
d. Identify the various grades of black powder and their proper use.
e. Discuss proper safety procedures pertaining to black powder use and storage.
f. Discuss proper components of a load.
g. Identify proper procedures and accessories used for loading a muzzle-loading rifle.
h. Demonstrate the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary to safely shoot a muzzle-loading rifle on a range, including range procedures.
i. Shoot a target with a muzzle-loading rifle using the five fundamentals of firing the shot.
j. Identify the materials needed to clean a muzzle- loading rifle safely. Using these materials, demonstrate how to clean a muzzle-loading rifle safely.
k. Identify the causes of a muzzle-loading rifle's failing to fire and explain or demonstrate proper correction procedures.
l. Discuss what points you would consider in selecting a muzzle-loading rifle.
m. Using a muzzle-loading rifle of any caliber and shooting from a bench rest or supported prone position, fire three groups (three shots per group) that can be covered by the base of a standard-size soft soft drink can.
n. Center the group on the target and fire three groups (five shots per group). According to the target used, each shot in the group must meet the following minimum score: (1) at 25 yards using NRA A-23 or NMLRA 50-yard targets - 7; (2) at 50 yards using NRA A-25 or NMLRA 100 yard targets - 7. [/size] And here is what the NMLRA says about instructing the muzzle loader course;
NRA-NMLRA Basic Muzzleloading Rifle:The course is 12 hours in length and includes classroom instruction and time on a range shooting a muzzleloading rifle. Students learn the NRA’s three rules for safe gun handling; parts; loading; shooting; cleaning; shooting from a standing position and shooting from a crossed stick position; and continued opportunities for skill development. Students will receive the Muzzleloading Rifle Handbook, NRA Gun Safety Rules brochure, Muzzleloading Student Examination, Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification booklet, course completion certificate. (Lesson Plan 1985, reprint 1-08)[/size].
I can't find anything prohibiting traditional black powder being used, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places?
Post by: Fletcher on August 15, 2012, 11:26:01 PM
From the Nattional Camp School that I attended a few years ago - at least BSA Camps are limited to:
1. .50 cal or smaller
2. Percussion cap only
3. Single trigger of 3 lb pull or greater
4. Commercially approved balck power substitutes only.
I am in Denver for more than another month - so can't quote the NCS paragrah untill I get back home.
Liailities brought on by law suits from scum sucking lawyers are the real problem - don't matter which side of the isles in Congress they sit!
Post by: Gambia on August 16, 2012, 12:44:36 AM
Post by: greggholmes on August 16, 2012, 07:32:03 AM
I have 2 cans, anyone need a pour spout?
Post by: Riley/MN on August 16, 2012, 09:55:02 AM
Quote from: "Fletcher"
Bull - can you edit that section from the #2 font? My old eyes caint see it.
From the Nattional Camp School that I attended a few years ago - at least BSA Camps are limited to:
1. .50 cal or smaller
2. Percussion cap only
3. Single trigger of 3 lb pull or greater
4. Commercially approved balck power substitutes only.
I am in Denver for more than another month - so can't quote the NCS paragrah untill I get back home.
Liailities brought on by law suits from scum sucking lawyers are the real problem - don't matter which side of the isles in Congress they sit!
I just reread the rules the other day - #4 says Commercial black powder or approved substitute. I have never once since I have been told that Scouts could not use real black powder been able to find it in writing....
Post by: prairie dog on August 16, 2012, 01:34:44 PM
One camp in particular is always crying for volunteers for their winter program. Then they tell the volunteers "you can't display your firearm in camp. You can't use black powder. We don't want you to wear your sheath knives on your belt. You can't camp in the program area." and on and on. Then they insist that you take their training courses regardless of your level of expertise or previous experience teaching youth. That just doesn't appeal to rendezvous type folks.
The Safari Club in my area does things right and several of us do volunteer twice a year to teach muzzle loading rifle shooting to the youth through their program. We use our personal rifles and the Safari Club supplies the powder, balls, patches, and caps. They will not allow the kids to shoot flintlocks but they do encourage us to display and demonstrate them. We are encouraged to dress in period dress and display knives, hawks, pistols and other "possibles" of the time.
In my opinion the Safari Club is presenting a higher quality muzzle loading program for youth while the BSA is missing the mark.
Post by: Ironhand on August 16, 2012, 06:58:06 PM
Quote from: "prairie dog"
I believe Camp Directors are misinterpreting or misquoting the rules. I know a lot of my club members have stopped volunteering to help with Scout Camp mountain man programs because of the silly rules and training requirements.
One camp in particular is always crying for volunteers for their winter program. Then they tell the volunteers "you can't display your firearm in camp. You can't use black powder. We don't want you to wear your sheath knives on your belt. You can't camp in the program area." and on and on. Then they insist that you take their training courses regardless of your level of expertise or previous experience teaching youth. That just doesn't appeal to rendezvous type folks.
I have worked with the BSA for years and I am sad to say that your are correct. Camp Directors are often ignorant but more often being pressured by those above them to enforce these absurd rules. The root cause is often ignorance and fear of lawsuits but in many counsel execs there seems to be a need to be in control.
I still work for the scouts but I rarely teach for them anymore. Sad.
Iron hand
Post by: sse on August 17, 2012, 10:41:26 AM
Post by: russ t frizzen on August 17, 2012, 05:27:44 PM
Dan