Post by: Carolina Joe on October 20, 2012, 04:53:24 PM
Post by: forest on October 20, 2012, 06:51:21 PM
Personaly I would feed it holy black, but you could try 777 or some of the others.
Post by: RiverCat on October 20, 2012, 08:13:33 PM
That said, in my opinion traditional muzzleloaders were designed to use real black powder like GOEX, and that is what they should be fed if you can find any in your area. The real stuff ignites at a much lower temperature than any of the substitute powders and in my experience gives the most reliable ignition in sidelock guns.
If you can`t find any black powder locally, you could also order it online but you`ll have to pay a hazmat fee to have it shipped and it can be kinda expensive if you only want to buy a pound or two. Really it boils down to being your choice. The substitute powders will work, and are easier to find in most areas. But real black powder will most likely give you quicker and more reliable ignition and is the traditional and most correct powder for your type of gun.
Post by: Carolina Joe on October 20, 2012, 11:27:34 PM
Post by: Gambia on October 21, 2012, 02:05:15 AM
Quote from: "Carolina Joe"
Thanks guys, Have another question, Goex and other brands of gun powder are hard to come by here in my area. What would be a good starting charge for the 50 cal.? I will be shooting deer size game and hogs. I might get a chance to take down an Orxy if I get drawn for the lottery. Thanks once again.If I could not get Goex or any other traditional black powder then Triple 7 would be my choice. Starting load for a 50 caliber would be 50 grains, then work up an accurate load from there in 5 grain increments.
Post by: RiverCat on October 21, 2012, 10:14:40 AM
For hunting the game you have in mind I would want more push than a 50 grain load though. The load I use for deer hunting in my .50cal rifle is 75grains of Goex 3f black powder. My particular rifle actually shoots best on paper with a 60grain load, but still holds hunting acceptable groups with more powder. You just have to see what your indivdual rifle will do and make your load choice based on the groups you see on the target paper. Choose your hunting load based on a decent compromise of velocity vs. accuracy. Unless you get lucky and have a barrel that will shoot best with loads on the hotter end of the scale.
You didn`t say what you plan on using for a projectile? I`m assuming a patched round ball? If so the thickness of your patch material will be another variable that will affect your group size. As you can see it can take a fair amount of experimenting to find an ideal load combination for any particular rifle. That`s half the fun of shooting these things though.
Good luck, and have fun
Post by: Hanshi on October 21, 2012, 01:17:36 PM
Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on October 21, 2012, 01:49:51 PM
Think of the cost of six packs of beer and hard liquer and smoking .It don,t take long to drink-up the cost of a few cans Black Powde.
Post by: Carolina Joe on October 21, 2012, 07:09:59 PM
Post by: Carolina Joe on October 21, 2012, 08:13:53 PM
Post by: RiverCat on October 21, 2012, 08:32:48 PM
Post by: Carolina Joe on October 22, 2012, 11:28:16 AM
Post by: Stormrider51 on October 22, 2012, 12:40:16 PM
Plenty of good advice given here already but I'd like to toss in a little more. Some people dislike true black powder because it is corrosive and requires that the gun be cleaned after a shooting session. There is a mistaken impression that Pyrodex, Triple 7, and a couple other "substitutes" are non-corrosive and therefore don't require regular cleaning. The fact is that both Pyrodex and Triple 7 are corrosive. Pour some on a clean piece of carbon steel, ignite it, let the fouling sit outside overnight, and see for yourself the next day. My point is to clean your new rifle after each shooting session regardless of what propellant you choose. I use water from the hot side of the tap with a drop or two of dish detergent in it. A flush nipple set-up like Track of the Wolf sells makes the whole process easy. I can completely clean my flintlock in 15 minutes or less. It takes me a lot longer to scrub out a modern rifle.
Triple 7 in particular produces higher temperatures and pressures than real black powder. Keep that in mind when developing loads and reduce charge levels accordingly. Start low and work up slowly.
All the critters you mentioned hunting are thin-skinned and relatively light-boned. You don't need to attempt to "magnumize" your rifle to hunt them. Once the ball has gone in one side and out the other any remaining velocity and energy are wasted anyway. Like William suggested, start with grain weight of powder that equals the caliber of your rifle and work up. My .50 caliber flintlock loves 70 grains of FFFg. There may be those who will tell you that is a light charge in a .50 but for the animals available to hunt in south central Texas and the average range at which shots are taken, 50 yards or less, it is more than enough. I value accuracy above all else, the ability to put that ball right where I want it for a quick and humane kill. To me there's no difference between an accuracy load and a hunting load.
Have fun with your new rifle. Before long you will be wondering why you ever shot anything else.
Storm
Post by: Carolina Joe on October 22, 2012, 03:17:54 PM
Post by: sse on October 22, 2012, 04:49:40 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on October 22, 2012, 06:25:48 PM
Quote from: "Carolina Joe"
Storm, Thank you for the good advice. I have decided to go ahead and order some black powder online. Has anyone used the powder from Graf and Sons?
We do have a member here (ShadowHawk) that has recently bought some powder from Graf & Sons, but I can't recall if his last order was for Goex or their "Store Brand". Maybe he will see this post and chime in.
I have read, and heard others say, that Goex may be a little better, but even that would be splitting some pretty fine hairs, according to what I hear....I have no personal experience with their store brand, but I have shot-up several hundred pounds of Goex since they moved to La and I can assure you that Goex is good.
I have 2# of Swiss FFFg sitting over in Olympia, if I can ever get over the mountain to get it. But.....I was saying that same thing about this time last year and I still haven't picked it up.
Actually, I have been 'bitting-at-the-bit' to shoot some Swiss Powder, but from what I just told you, you'd never believe it.
All the fella's posting have given you some good advice about using real black powder instead of the substitutes.
The fact of the matter is, you can spend a ton of money playing around with all the faux powders and never get much farther than 2nd., or maybe 3rd. base.
To know what your Muzzleloader will really do, you simply gotta have real black powder, and short of ordering it, it is getting more scarce than Hen's Teeth to find.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: snake eyes on October 23, 2012, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: "RussB"
To know what your Muzzle loader will really do, you simply gotta have real black powder, and short of ordering it, it is getting more scarce than Hen's Teeth to find.UncleRuss,
Hen's teeth,really!!!!Had a great dinner the other night at a high end
joint and that was on the menu.Also had deep fried chicken feet.Now there is a real good snack! :lol sign
John
Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on October 23, 2012, 11:17:22 AM
Post by: snake eyes on October 24, 2012, 08:18:13 AM
I have used Grafs powder with no complaints...I did find it a bit dirtier
than Goex,but cleanup is about the same. I tried it a couple of years ago.I
believe it is made for Grafs by Wano the German powder Co.
I returned to GOEX just because. Sometimes Grafs has some good
buys on their house brand though.
John
Post by: Carolina Joe on October 24, 2012, 08:14:15 PM
Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on October 25, 2012, 07:00:47 PM
Post by: Carolina Joe on July 06, 2013, 09:36:37 PM
Post by: greyhunter on July 06, 2013, 10:33:14 PM
Post by: Sir Michael on July 06, 2013, 11:01:16 PM
An interesting bit of historical information if you're interested, traditionally 1/3 the weight of the ball being shot was the recommended load of powder. For a .490 ball that weighs about 180 gr that would be 60 gr of powder.
Today we demand much greater and consistent performance that what was traditionally required by the average shooter.
Post by: Carolina Joe on July 06, 2013, 11:16:17 PM
Post by: TallTexan on July 06, 2013, 11:44:21 PM
Post by: Carolina Joe on July 07, 2013, 12:04:27 AM
Post by: Captchee on July 07, 2013, 09:24:41 AM
ridjrunr is down that way and im thinking he uses true Black . Maybe he will chime in here or you could send him a PM .
As to what others have said .
Yes you can shoot pyro and t7 in your cap lock . It can some times be finicky to ignite but it will work .
I would also agree with Bp being better .
As to comical. The idea that a conical must have a fast twist to stabilize is pretty much a generalization based on modern center fire bullet designs combined with extreme accuracy at distances .
If a person spends alittle time working up a load and finding the correct conical that your rifle likes , it will shoot them just fine and give accuracy needed for hunting .
Many of the original muskets that were designed to shoot the Minie bullet had very slow twists in the 1 in 100+ range . Those like the Enfield and Springfield rifles that later had improved twists applied to their rifling , still did not in most cases go past a 1 in 62 or 1 in 72 .
The key is finding a properly designed conical for your application
Post by: Carolina Joe on July 09, 2013, 11:28:30 AM