Post by: gunmaker on January 21, 2013, 07:58:49 PM
Post by: Riley/MN on January 21, 2013, 07:59:31 PM
Post by: gunmaker on January 21, 2013, 08:04:07 PM
Post by: melsdad on January 22, 2013, 08:14:32 PM
Post by: Bigsmoke on January 22, 2013, 09:40:06 PM
Interresting project. I just love that English Sporting Rifle look with the drip bar and the shotgun lock. Full stock?? What profile you going to have on the barrel?
Be looking forward to seeing how it progresses.
John
Post by: gunmaker on January 22, 2013, 11:21:52 PM
Post by: gunmaker on January 23, 2013, 12:50:18 PM
Post by: rollingb on January 23, 2013, 01:33:04 PM
Post by: gunmaker on January 24, 2013, 05:45:36 PM
Post by: rollingb on January 24, 2013, 06:09:40 PM
Round balls have always worked good on elk, moose, and caribou, for me. :laffing :shock:
Post by: gunmaker on January 24, 2013, 06:20:53 PM
Post by: pathfinder on January 24, 2013, 07:27:08 PM
Point is,use the most accurate load you can possably work up. We all have experianced what happens when you change your load + or - 5grs.
(http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss42/pathfinder_01/th_BearsPAremodel031.jpg) (http://http)
Here's an example using my,now Rick Evan's,.40cal. 42" Green Mt. coned muzzle. Just 5grs makes a world of differance. And this is a very forgiving barrel!
I dont have a lot of experiance with bullet's and fast twist,but I would imagine they would yeild simular result's.
As an example of changing laod combo's,I experimented with a custom Hawkinsa friend of mine built me.
(http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss42/pathfinder_01/th_guns019.jpg) (http://http)
.58 cal 38" Colrain barrel,1-1/8 tapered profile,lapped and slight taper bore,@.009 from breech to muzzle,slant hook breech.
Original load was .570 ball,spit patch blue pillow ticking,115grs 3f. With this load I was able to hit all 4 Bears on the NMLRA 200yd sillouete match,ONCE!
After numerous shoulder surgeries,non sucsessful,I needed to find a milder load. After what seem's like 1000 years on the range, I was able to hit on an alternate "kinder" load. .562 round ball,spit blue pillow tick,70grs 3f. Still goes through a couple of 2X4's at 50yd's.
All this to say,your accurate load is your hunting load. Once we put aside our "macho man"stuff,we dont need to hurt ourselves to be a sucessfull hunter. A round ball through the heart will drop whatever you shoot at.
Post by: Bigsmoke on January 24, 2013, 09:22:28 PM
Tom, we put together a .72 cal several years ago that the customer wanted 1:28 rifling in it. Had a fellow in Montana make a mould for it. The bullet weighed about 1,200 grains. It was a modified Minnie design. Even with a 36" 1 1/4 barrel, the recoil was quite noticable at 225 grains of Fg. I believe I got a light concussion from shooting it off the bench.
Have fun with the conicals, PRB for me.
John
Post by: gunmaker on January 24, 2013, 09:44:08 PM
Post by: sse on January 25, 2013, 10:19:10 AM
Quote from: "melsdad"
Do you ever take a break Tom? I'm not complanin' though...I like your work!I hope you can see all the pics...if not, we'll need to roust the techies.
Post by: gunmaker on August 01, 2013, 07:44:30 PM
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle_zps89a29382.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Roaddog on August 02, 2013, 06:52:11 AM
Post by: Uncle Russ on August 02, 2013, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: "gunmaker"
Well the long wait for the Rayl custom barrel has ended. It showed up today. So I'm back on this project. Here's a pic of bbl. in wood. Stay tuned. Tom
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle_zps89a29382.jpg) (http://http)
Tom, a little something to think about, when you get a chance.....
I've got a 32" 1:28 GM .50 barrel, in fact it's one of the barrels for that same stock you now have, and I assure you that the old wives tale about NOT being able to shoot RB in that fast twist is nothing short of just old tales that this sport is plagued with.
There is a one fly in the ointment though, and that is the amount of powder you use before the grouping goes south on it, but that is also true with a lot of other barrels, be they 1:28 / 1:48 / 1:62 / or 1:78.....
In a .50 T/C 1:48 barrel 110gr FFFg and more, will open the group considerably using a round ball and patch.
In the .50 GM 1:28 barrel, the group starts to open at about 95 / 100gr FFFg.
Does that 10 -15gr difference really make a difference, especially when you consider dwell time on a 1:28 is longer than that on a 1:48? (of course such things are measured in mili micro seconds and used to support a theory, not necessarily to mean a whole lot outside of theory or provide anything visual.)
Still yet....Is it possible the 1:28 could be seen as more efficient than a 1:48 and the other rates?
There is this theory on "skipping"... whereas a hot load will push the ball and patch so fast it will "skip" on the grooves and create galling, or leading of the bore, and then when ignored the grooves get all leaded up and the patch can't get stuffed into the grooves to hold the ball properly and impart the proper spin on it.
I'm not sure I buy into all of that...
It makes some sense, some times, but the problem is you can't duplicate the process at will....not just by dumping more powder in, firing a shot or two, dropping a bore light down and see galling.
I suppose if you ignored proper cleaning of the barrel long enough, overtime that scenario could take place, and then grow exponentially to a point you would have a smooth bore, but you could do that no matter which twist you're using, and that makes me think that the old saying of "every gun barrel is a science within itself" totally out weighs the theory of "skipping".
Now the beauty of a 1:28 twist, if you can say such a thing, is the fact that it does better stabilize a conical bullet, or a solid base Minie, much better than a slower twist.
Our NSSA guys shoot some amazing groups with hollow base Minie-Ball even out to 150 yds.....and they do it with a s-l-o-w twist, without leading.
Other than that, a person could shoot a 1:28 for years using a round ball and never know the difference until someone told him "you can't do that in a fast twist".
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Riley/MN on August 02, 2013, 01:29:41 PM
Quote from: "RussB"
There is this theory on "skipping"... whereas a hot load will push the ball and patch so fast it will "skip" on the grooves and create galling, or leading of the bore, and then when ignored the grooves get all leaded up and the patch can't get stuffed into the grooves to hold the ball properly and impart the proper spin on it.
I'm not sure I buy into all of that...
It makes some sense, some times, but the problem is you can't duplicate the process at will....not just by dumping more powder in, firing a shot or two, dropping a bore light down and see galling.
I suppose if you ignored proper cleaning of the barrel long enough, overtime that scenario could take place, and then grow exponentially to a point you would have a smooth bore, but you could do that no matter which twist you're using, and that makes me think that the old saying of "every gun barrel is a science within itself" totally out weighs the theory of "skipping".
Not to be an advocate for that nasty guy
- cuz he don't need one.... but ever since I first heard this theory I've had problems with it as pertaining to PRB. How can a ball inside of a patch be leading the barrel? As far as skipping, I can see that, and lead build up with a conical? Sure, but lead in the bore with a PRB just don't make no sense to me.....
Post by: gunmaker on August 02, 2013, 04:19:55 PM
Post by: Hank in WV on August 02, 2013, 05:03:31 PM
Post by: Captchee on August 02, 2013, 06:13:12 PM
As to the question of how a ball that’s within a patch , can lead a barrel .
Well the thing is , often times if you pick up the patches , you will find them torn if not shredded . If the patch is in fact intact then it wont lead the rifling .
Now another thing . a lot of times I have found that balls that have torn patchs , will often have rifling engraved on them . First time I saw this was with a patched RB fired through a 1 in 32 twist barrel that was loaded with 100 grains of 3F .
During that time I would fire a ball into the end of a hay bail so as to judge penitration at different distances . couldn’t figure out for the life of me how the ball was being engraved . Then we started looking for patchs . When we found them they were pretty much wads of fabric with a big hole in the center
Post by: gunmaker on August 05, 2013, 08:34:23 PM
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Guards_zpse3fb2b83.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle3_zps36dc0911.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle5_zps46331124.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle8_zps40f344e3.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle9_zps5b64529f.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle12_zps8f913542.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Sir Michael on August 06, 2013, 07:40:00 PM
Post by: gunmaker on August 06, 2013, 09:47:55 PM
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle18_zpsc737eb7c.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle19_zps5bea764b.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Sir Michael on August 07, 2013, 02:07:09 PM
Post by: gunmaker on August 07, 2013, 02:09:18 PM
Post by: Sir Michael on August 07, 2013, 07:50:07 PM
Lewis Drake and Associates | - Smith, London- .62 Cal. Damascus Muzzle Loader, ca. 1817-20 (http://www.drake.net/products/Smith-London--.62-Cal.-Damascus-Muzzle-Loader-ca.-1817-20-?id=28578)
Post by: gunmaker on August 07, 2013, 08:09:47 PM
Post by: Captchee on August 08, 2013, 07:52:09 AM
i have seen more then a few double set models and more then a few single sets
Post by: gunmaker on August 10, 2013, 01:54:37 PM
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle21_zps2e9d7145.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a555/TomKnight43/English%20Game%20Rifle/th_Mariosrifle20_zps114297d4.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Uncle Russ on August 10, 2013, 02:57:56 PM
I really do like that setup.
What pad did you put on it?
Uncle Russ...
Also....Nice tutorial along the way too!
Post by: gunmaker on August 10, 2013, 04:31:50 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on August 10, 2013, 05:00:09 PM
Quote from: "gunmaker"
The client wanted a rubber pad, so I put on a Pachmayr brown super mag 1" thick---he's worried about recoil !!! Hurts my eyes but it's his gun...Tom
I thought it was probably a Pachmayr, but I was also wondering if LimbSaver finally had come out with something like that nowadays.
I suspect you have to squint your eyes quite a bit when doing customer work.
My little POC probably made ya downright sick!
But not to worry, you'll get over it......eventually.
Don't throw the pattern away on that English Game Gun, we may need to talk if a couple of my deals come around, and if my child bride will hurry up and get on the heal.
Anyway, we'll talk some time.
Uncle Russ....
Post by: gunmaker on August 10, 2013, 05:51:33 PM
Post by: Captchee on August 12, 2013, 04:26:46 PM
Post by: gunmaker on August 12, 2013, 07:37:19 PM
Post by: gunmaker on September 30, 2013, 12:32:25 PM