Post by: Riley/MN on March 01, 2013, 03:14:03 PM
Thanks
Post by: rickevans on March 01, 2013, 03:33:58 PM
'
Post by: Riley/MN on March 01, 2013, 03:37:40 PM
Post by: rickevans on March 01, 2013, 03:39:56 PM
Post by: Riley/MN on March 01, 2013, 03:49:34 PM
Thanks!
Post by: No Deer on March 01, 2013, 09:19:39 PM
Post by: Forager on March 02, 2013, 11:38:29 AM
Quote from: "Riley/MN"
Dang, I'm two issues behind! need to read up this weekend! I did try some paper wrapped charges in my 12 ga, but I found it was VERY easy to wind up with a 1 1/2 ounce slug!
That'll kill a turkey.
Post by: Buzzard on March 02, 2013, 11:51:04 AM
Post by: Captchee on March 03, 2013, 04:19:33 AM
myself i prefer the 20 over the 12 .
my load for my 20 gage SXS is 70 grains of 2 F with a soft wad 1 1/2 oz of #71/2 .
im also a head hunter in that i do not take body shots on turkey .
If you plan on those body shots then I would recommended a larger sized shot
Post by: Ironhand on April 12, 2013, 12:01:13 AM
Quote from: "rickevans"
There is a good article in the latest edition of Muzzleloader magazine. Paper wrapped shot charges. '
I have used these for years. They work well. Have not seen this article, do not get the mag. Is it online?
Load is 70gr 2f and 1 1/4 oz # 6 in a 20 ga trade gun. Works well.
Post by: sse on April 12, 2013, 09:49:13 AM
Quote
Is it online?No, paid subscription.
Post by: Uncle Russ on April 12, 2013, 01:17:48 PM
Quote from: "rickevans"
There is a good article in the latest edition of Muzzleloader magazine. Paper wrapped shot charges. I am going to try some the next couple weeks in hopes that I might get out for turkeys in a few weeks.
'
FWIW
About ten or so years ago Captchee and I started a thread on another forum that led to a lot of experimenting, on my part, on "Paper Shot Tubes".
Starting with brown paper lunch bags, per-determined width of paper was cut.
For the 16 gauge I believe it was 4" squares, IIRC.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/BP%20Shot/setup.jpg) (http://http)
Using a dowel, or whatever, of the just right diameter..... in this case a stick of propane pipe dope, you add a bit of glue to one side of the paper and roll it over the dowel making a paper cylinder with the fiber wad already inside.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/BP%20Shot/fiberwad.jpg) (http://http)
Using the proper amount of shot, 1.5oz in this case, it is poured into the paper cylinder.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/BP%20Shot/82grshot.jpg) (http://http)
Fold the end over and you have a loaded shot cartridge.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/BP%20Shot/foldcrimp.jpg) (http://http)
Here are all the components, laid out.....with a cylinder already rolled in the back ground.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/BP%20Shot/components.jpg) (http://http)
Also, in the background, you notice an open jar of Anhydrous Lanolin....a light "finger" smeared coat of AHL was applied to the paper of the shot cartridge for "lube effect".
After a couple years playing with this I discovered that the full Fiber wad was not only unnecessary, but may have been destructive to the pattern.....so, I started tearing the wad in one-half and that increased the center pellet count at 30 yds. ( Before doing that, the center of the pattern had a rather low pellet count, I suspected that the heavier fiber wad was opening the center, and I believe changing this proved it. )
Years later I omitted the fiber wad altogether and got a somewhat higher pellet count within the 30" circle, still at 30yds, although center count remained about the same.
Just a FYI, On how choke is determined.
Choke is determined for all shotguns by the amount of shot it delivers within a 30" circle at 40yds.
(1) Cylinder bore-40%
(2) Improved cylinder-50%
(3) Modified-60%
(4) Full-70%
Our smoothbores must be seen as being a Cylinder Bore, and we should not expect too high of a pellet count, especially at 30 and certainly never at 40 yards.
Another side note...if you decide to ever make a "shot cartridge" be sure and not seal the shot end of the paper with glue...you will end up with about a 4" hole in the paper because it won't open up at all.
I have read a lot of folks controlling their pattern all the way down to Full Choke by using buffered shot from a "sweet" muffin mix, even tried it myself.......however, this process also comes with no guarantees.
That's because on one shot you may get a Modified or better Pattern, while the next shot is all over the pattern board, or the next with a very heavy pellet count in one quadrant or other on the board...which I found to be the most frequent expectation. Like all things Muzzleloading, YMMV (your own mileage may vary considerably.)
Also, when seating the "shot cartridge" be sure you break the top of the paper its wrapped in and add an overshot card or two, as this seems to give the best of all worlds.
Still yet, when you get right down to basis needs, the use of loose components are all you really need, and when applied properly, this will give you the best performance for a cylinder bore gun.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: rollingb on April 12, 2013, 01:33:30 PM
Post by: Trois Castors on April 13, 2013, 05:19:30 PM
Post by: Eric Krewson on April 16, 2013, 03:56:56 PM
I went from this at 20 yards;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/hunting%20stuff/patternwithoutpatch.jpg) (http://http)
To this, I Xed out the previous few shot holes. all the red circles in the spine are from one patched shot load.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/hunting%20stuff/tradegununloadtarget.jpg) (http://http)
If I remember correctly, I use 1 1/8" wide X 5" long strips lubed with olive oil.
I would ram the patch down a little, add some shot, pack it down, add more shot and so forth until I got my complete 1 1/2 oz of #6 in the barrel then ram it home. I was using 70 gr of 2F.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/hunting%20stuff/dowelandpatch.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Riley/MN on April 16, 2013, 06:25:37 PM
Quote from: "Eric Krewson"
I would ram the patch down a little, add some shot, pack it down, add more shot and so forth until I got my complete 1 1/2 oz of #6 in the barrel then ram it home. I was using 70 gr of 2F.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/hunting%20stuff/dowelandpatch.jpg) (http://http)
That's pretty cool - never tried that. Oh, I got my 20 ga bbl, but it won't fit any of my guns "as is", so will be trying with the 12 again this year. Beautiful turkey hunting weather today! My season starts tomorrow - they are calling for another 4-8" of snow....
Post by: gunmaker on April 22, 2013, 08:46:49 PM
Post by: Riley/MN on April 23, 2013, 01:13:32 PM
Post by: Captchee on May 09, 2013, 07:47:18 AM
Like Eric , I all to often ended up with a slug when patterning shots using a paper shot cup .
Myself I believe this was mostly do to having a tight load to begin with and not perforating the paper .
But a perforated cup would end up breaking open in my bag. I even went so far as to try modern cups .
In the end I found that my gun shot better without the cup anyway . .
So really what my paper cartridges end up being is quick loaders .
I make the paper hull just as Uncle Russ posted .
However the way I load them is different as I make 2 compartments .
Once the tube is made , I mark back to the center of the tube . I then slip a sizing rod (two piece of the same rod I use to form the paper tube .) I slip these back into the tube from both ends tell the are just shy of center . At that point I tie the tube off tightly using string . This gives the tube an hourglass shape to the tube . I then mark a P for powder on one side and a S for shot on the other side .
Now I remover the two sections of rod..
On the P side I insert my over the powder cards first . If you use wads , you want those in first . Then cards . you cant push them down all the way to the string . Just go down to about ½ an inch from the string .
On top of that I put in my powder load . Then I fold the end over the powder in the same way as a normal paper cartridge and add a bit of glue or wax drip to the paper .
Now on the S side I add my over the shot card . Do it the same way as the P side and you will find that the two haves will pull up together .
I then add my shot charge . Fold and seal the end .
Again what this does is give me a quick load .
To load : take the end marked P and tear it open . Dump the powder I the bore .
Now tear the paper back and remove the cards and wad . If you put them in correctly they will come out in the right order .
Once they are down you tear open the S side , dump the shot and pull the over the shot card
OR if your wanting a shot cup , simply flip the S side over so that the closed end is inserted into the bore and the string is up .
Start this down the bore to the point the string is at the muzzle .
You can then eath cut the paper with your patch Knife OR simply grasp the string and give it a yank . Which tears the paper off right above the over the shot card .
All that’s left is to run the charge home .
Eric . Its been a while since I played with all this. Ill have to try your patch idea . Seems to me it would work well . Are you adding the over the shot card before you cut the patch off at the muzzle ?