Post by: Uncle Russ on May 13, 2013, 03:16:31 PM
At the same time I have seen triple that number that looked downright "tacky" with zero appeal to the eye.
Having said that, I suspect the question is really....what makes that difference?
In my eyes, to many tacks appear flat out over-embellished, and takes away from the intended effect.
To few tacks looks as though you started, but then you changed your mind.
Where is that happy medium?
Someone here on the forum owns a rifle, that I have seen pictures of before, but for the life of me I can't locate those pictures in the gallery. IIRC the rifle is a plain New Englander although it could have a CVA. It has been a long time since I gave this any consideration so I have forgotten which rifle it really was.
Something, in the back of my mind is saying it was nobber, or Gobbler. I haven't seen or heard from Gobbler for some time now, hopefully he will chime in here now.
Another question is...I have a favorite old Renegade that I would like to do this to. I think all my Hawkens have enough, if not to much, 'bling" already. and I think the plain old Renegade would be the right choice here...do those who know agree with me on this point?
Another question would be the size of tack? I'm not sure but I "think" I like the smaller, low domed tack, that is offered by TOTW.
Is "brass plated" sufficient, or should I use real brass tacks and if so, where do you recommend I get them?
I will be sending my stock to gunmaker here pretty soon for some other "stuff" and I would like for him to add the tacks while he has the stock....but, I gotta get the right tacks first, and know, or at least have an idea, about where he's going to put 'em.
Any ideas or recommendations would be truly appreciated.
Thank you, Uncle Russ...
Post by: sse on May 13, 2013, 04:38:17 PM
Post by: StaticXD00d on May 13, 2013, 05:00:45 PM
Post by: biliff on May 13, 2013, 05:19:45 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 13, 2013, 10:48:24 PM
Quote from: "biliff"
A previous post on the same subject with a bunch of pictures. Maybe there's something in there that trips your trigger.
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=10120&p=102479&hilit=Tacks#p102479 (http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=10120&p=102479&hilit=Tacks#p102479)
The majority of that is a little on the "heavy" side for my taste, but thanks for bringing that oldie back.
I have to admit that there was a time in life when any of those would have tripped my trigger, but old age seems to be a lot more boring.
One of the guys here has shown pictures of something similar to what I would like to do....if I could just remember who it was, dangnabit!.
I know what John (Static) is saying, I even held that same line of thought for a long time.
However, I would need a pretty long stock if I was to put on one for each deer I have killed with this old gun, even if I tried to remember all of 'em...and I would end up with a lot of tacks left over if I used one for every Elk I've ever killed with a muzzleloader, but then I could put one on each side of the forearm and have one for the stock!
Here is what I'm thinking.....if you can picture this in your mind?
Forearm....2 before the wedge key, 2 afterwards. (2 maybe 3???)
Stock....4 down the butt, 4 at bottom edge of the stock going toward the trigger.
(the last one of the four on the toe, going down, would be the first one for the other three going forward to also make four....does that make sense?)
*I tried to scan a picture of what I'm trying to tell ya, but it went south on me....twice!
So, maybe you can picture this in your mind...LOL
Thanks guys!
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Fletcher on May 14, 2013, 12:09:25 AM
think before you start pounding holes in it.
Post by: mario on May 14, 2013, 12:29:56 AM
Mario
Post by: sse on May 14, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
Post by: StaticXD00d on May 14, 2013, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: "RussB"
Quote from: "biliff"A previous post on the same subject with a bunch of pictures. Maybe there's something in there that trips your trigger.
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=10120&p=102479&hilit=Tacks#p102479 (http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=10120&p=102479&hilit=Tacks#p102479)
The majority of that is a little on the "heavy" side for my taste, but thanks for bringing that oldie back.
I have to admit that there was a time in life when any of those would have tripped my trigger, but old age seems to be a lot more boring.
One of the guys here has shown pictures of something similar to what I would like to do....if I could just remember who it was, dangnabit!.
I know what John (Static) is saying, I even held that same line of thought for a long time.
However, I would need a pretty long stock if I was to put on one for each deer I have killed with this old gun, even if I tried to remember all of 'em...and I would end up with a lot of tacks left over if I used one for every Elk I've ever killed with a muzzleloader, but then I could put one on each side of the forearm and have one for the stock! :bl th up
Post by: Hanshi on May 14, 2013, 01:51:51 PM
Post by: david32cal on May 14, 2013, 01:54:14 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 14, 2013, 02:35:54 PM
Actually, rather tasteful for a Longrifle in my eyes.
As previously stated, I don't want to put a tack on any of my nice / nicer rifles either.
But this old Renegade of mine has been around awhile and it's just something I thought I would do to maybe liven the old plain jane girl up a bit....ain't never had tacks before and I thought they might make me look younger.....well, maybe just a little bit younger.
After reading all the comments I'm thinking now that all this just may not happen.
Still yet, if that gun I saw here on the forum was to show up again, I would sure love to see, once again, just what the heck he did to catch my eye and plant this thought in my old head.
Russ...
Post by: gunmaker on May 14, 2013, 03:30:48 PM
Post by: Captchee on May 14, 2013, 06:23:37 PM
I would agree with Fletcher . Take photo of your rifle and then use photo shop to add some tacks .
Take your time and make several different designs . Then set back and look them over for a few weeks .
I would also agree with Mario and use the proper tacks to start with
Post by: biliff on May 14, 2013, 07:01:47 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 14, 2013, 07:59:08 PM
Although I do think, for whatever reason, that tacks likely look better on a Tradegun than any other gun.
I suspect that thought comes from seeing my very first tack gun, it was on a Tradegun, and it didn't have any fleas on it.
If I'm not real badly mistaken the gun I'm referring to that the tacks were on, was either a New Englander, or heck, it might have even been a Renegade, I just can't remember.
I do remember the gun itself was very plain, very plain, and the tacks were small, and not a whole lot of 'em...enough to catch the eye but nothing sensational otherwise.
Really hard to explain. That's why I was trying to cheat a little bit in hopes that I could see it again.
After reading what everyone has had to say about this, I am once again in doubt......
I have never seen myself as a really creative person, I have a total lack of imagination on something like this, something that I could call my very own design...sooo, lacking all the necessary ingredients, I will likely just leave well enough alone and move on to something else.
I should be putting the finishing touches on my bamboo backed Osage Bow, or packing that stock for shipping, but instead, here I am cluttering my mind with a thought that has come and gone no less than a dozen times over the past fifty or so years. Old age is not for sissies, but I have always heard that if you don't keep the ol' mind busy, she'll leave ya for sure.
Never really heard if you can wear one out or not, but I would imagine one could.
Thanks fellas!
Uncle Russ...
Post by: cb on May 15, 2013, 01:20:38 AM
For earlier periods the low dome tacks are also the most common type and the most common sizes were 1/4-5/16" and the slightly larger 3/8-7/16" sizes. These are still available from Londonderry Brasses, Ltd but be forewarned they are very expensive at $1.00-1.15 a piece.
Also they are soft and want to flatten out so you need to set with a domed tool or if you really want to get correct fill the inside of the head with lead.
The steel shank solid brass head (don't use plated it wears off really quick)are much less expensive (I get mine from Crazy Crow and mostly use the low dome - high dome and the cone head tacks are again post 1870 or so) and while not an exact match to the square shanks the common solid brass head with steel are close enough for all, but the most discriminating user and or for use on restoration or museum quality reproductions.
here's a pic of original trade gun tack patterns:
(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/firearms/tradeguns-tacks.jpg)
One thing I like to do is mix sizes in a pattern - IMO it gives more "3D effect" to my eye:
This is my tacked smoothbore and you can see the mixed design I used - 7/16", 5/16", along with 18 ga and 14 ga brass brads (again from CC)
(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/1-2011/pouch-hunting-2011-spec2-2.jpg)
Now I like the look of tacks and since my heritage is mixed blood I use them which is very HC, but as Capt Chee noted it's what YOU like in this case that matters (a note: the heavy use of tacks on guns and other gear came post 1840, prior to that most tacking was minimalistic in comparison to some of the later pieces - only caveat if you have a beard it is generally best not to put them on the cheek piece side although I set them so the edge of the head is slightly inletted in the wood so no beard pull even if I wind up shooting from the off side.
BTW - when looking at original gear or the artifakes seen so often on EBay etc, it's usually quite easy to tell when they've used steel shank tacks - if they are hammered on too hard the steel shank will push up on the brass head enough to form a teat that is quite obvious if you know what to look for - I've seen a lot of the artifakes claiming to be from the pre-1870's era with steel shank tacks.
Here's some pics of a cheap re-stocked Dixie Lancaster that I "Indianized" with not only tacks but rawhide repairs - typical of many 19th Century Indian guns which have seen heavy use.
(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/1-2011/aging-2011-dear-1.jpg)
(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/1-2011/aging-2011-dear-2.jpg)
(http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/1-2011/aging-2011-dear-3.jpg)
Post by: Bigsmoke on May 15, 2013, 01:37:38 PM
By all means use solid brass tacks. When the brass finish starts to wear off, nothing says "tacky" like rusty tacks.
Used to know where to get the darn things, but its been a long, long while.
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 15, 2013, 02:07:23 PM
It's going to be real brass tacks if it happens.
What do you guys think about the 4th one down in the drawings....on a short stocked plains type rifle, ie Renegade?
Uncle Russ...
Post by: gunmaker on May 15, 2013, 04:12:44 PM
Post by: 2 Locks on May 16, 2013, 09:55:09 PM
About 20 posts down in this thread are some examples I posted a while back, that I think fall into that "just right" category:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12954 (http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12954)
Post by: sgjames on December 21, 2015, 11:20:06 PM
Post by: Eric Krewson on December 22, 2015, 07:07:28 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/Gostomsky%20trade%20gun%20001_zps4mb3y01z.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Roaddog on December 23, 2015, 07:12:11 AM
Post by: ridjrunr on December 23, 2015, 09:45:09 AM
Post by: sse on December 23, 2015, 11:37:24 AM
Quote from: "Eric Krewson"
Here is an old Gustomsky trade gun a friend gave me that has a tastefully done tack job.That looks great...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/Gostomsky%20trade%20gun%20001_zps4mb3y01z.jpg) (http://http)