Post by: greggholmes on October 16, 2013, 06:06:37 PM
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gDBjYh58Mn0/Ul8MQCfQPFI/AAAAAAAAHvU/CHB5nj0XIMY/s800/20131016_043027.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-n_m9VkwATXQ/Ul8Mhgl9ZaI/AAAAAAAAHv0/eSCbgKX-XRE/s640/20131016_043657.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D-Y8vPKFzNA/Ul8MnCr_ZII/AAAAAAAAHv8/_WNLv2XlbHg/s640/20131016_043741.jpg)(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i2jRdU2Yts0/Ul8Mrokn-RI/AAAAAAAAHwE/LtlK2EuDCWY/s640/20131016_043836.jpg)
Post by: rollingb on October 16, 2013, 06:23:55 PM
Post by: mario on October 17, 2013, 12:26:40 AM
Quote from: "greggholmes"
anyone know proof stamps?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gDBjYh58Mn0/Ul8MQCfQPFI/AAAAAAAAHvU/CHB5nj0XIMY/s800/20131016_043027.jpg)
The right and left marks look like crossed scepters with crown over a "V".
In that case, they are English proofs, Birmingham, 1813-1904.
Mario
Post by: Two Steps on October 17, 2013, 09:23:49 AM
Indian Arms & Ammo Resources - Proof Marks (http://www.gunaccessory.com/Proof_Marks/proofmarks.htm)
Al
Post by: Sir Michael on October 17, 2013, 11:16:47 AM
Post by: Captchee on December 04, 2013, 02:29:14 PM
HOWEVER if what we are seeing isn’t the V or roman numeral 5 and just pitting , then its a Birmingham private proof for Ketland .
Now where it gets tricky is that Ketland mark was very similar to the Tower mark . The difference is in the detail of the crown itself . Which over time makes it very hard to distinguish between the two
While the locks say Manton on them they would be late Manton and son /J or sometimes S Manton, if they if they are not imitations that were marked Manton , which was common .
Manton had his own registered private proof just as Ketland did .
that original mark which was anointed to Joseph Manton , was not passed on to his sons who also made guns they marked Manton .
If they are the same then the the barrels were made by a lesser maker who did not have the privilege of private proof . There for it will carry matching proof and definitive proof marks .
The SW I believe is one of the variants of the Wallis makers mark .from Dublin
The 4th mark that’s far to the left would be the views mark .
So possibly, I say possibly because there are so many variations and many times with later guns like yours , its very hard to tell without trying to clean out the markings. But from left to right you have
The proof mark: . that’s the proof that was done prior to the completion of the barrels .
Makers mark :. IE the person or house that made the barrel
Definitive proof :. that’s the mark that was placed by the actual proof house upon final completion of the barrel this could be in two places . Breech plug and barrel
Viewers mark : this is a mark made by the person viewing the definitive proof . It attests that the proof is factual and Taxable .
Post by: Capt. Jas. on December 05, 2013, 09:12:22 PM
These look to be Birmingham post 1813 proofs. The right one clearly shows the V beneath so it is the view mark. The other if legible should have a B to the left in the crossed sceptors, a P below in the same location as the V on the other mark and a C on the right. These marks were also counterfeited in the Dutch region.
Post by: Captchee on December 06, 2013, 07:56:22 AM
I just scanned through it real quick . Will read more tonight
Im not sure the left mark would be the BPC mark . Those that I have seen were very clear in their lettering also the crown is normally very much more defined and detailed. In doing so they are often not as deep as what we are looking at here .
also the BPC at least on those that i have held , was very much sperated from the septers . so even when they were corroded or in one case double struck , they still did not bleed into the septers .
Ill look , at one time I had a set of barrels out in my shop with the BPC marking on it .
But I do believe that what we are seeing on this barrel set is 4 marks , not 3
As to that left hand mark . The question at hand , at least for me is if that mark carries the V or not .
Frankly to me , it looks like it does . But then we are looking at a photo so ???
But if it does then it would IMO be either the proof or the definitive proof . This making the reversed L shaped Box on the far right that’s just visible in the photos , the viewers mark
PS: we also cannot pass over the detail of the crown , which IMO takes it out of the earlier marks or other national marks
Post by: Capt. Jas. on December 06, 2013, 08:10:45 AM
Post by: greggholmes on December 07, 2013, 01:23:48 AM
there are 5 marks down from left to right
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KGKr7J32h9U/UqJBFcLpIzI/AAAAAAAAH7c/hPzpu4WxTqE/s640/IMG_20131206_132613.jpg)
#3
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jWj8HG3iktE/UqI-14SgFfI/AAAAAAAAH6w/GQW_Z-xvWpM/s640/IMG_20131206_130752.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gDBjYh58Mn0/Ul8MQCfQPFI/AAAAAAAAHvU/CHB5nj0XIMY/s640/20131016_043027.jpg)
number 4 is left/right
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mR4qgTyXFxw/UqI_ONS6J7I/AAAAAAAAH7I/7ZgNAc8DSsE/s640/IMG_20131206_130928.jpg)(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-s7CZWhzQOvs/UqI_SAd7OsI/AAAAAAAAH7Q/OgCf9YGxvrc/s640/IMG_20131206_130933.jpg)
center rib even with #1
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LNIjSDH6Vp8/UqJBotR5qxI/AAAAAAAAH7k/T8J8KshL1ag/s640/IMG_20131206_132824.jpg)
represents 10 gauge
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QIbPaw6zlg0/UqI_ITFYVRI/AAAAAAAAH7A/GGw5p0YiT2Y/s640/IMG_20131206_130834.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0-qXPCG8pyk/UqJDuKzFzRI/AAAAAAAAH7w/uvtz_zFIMKc/s640/IMG_20131206_133624.jpg)
top rib
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vO1io1uDw08/UqJDyKEYyQI/AAAAAAAAH74/G7iSnCxbQNg/s640/IMG_20131206_133414.jpg)