Post by: Uncle Russ on October 29, 2013, 10:43:21 PM
You get all kinds of recommendation from your hunting buddies, everything from "what you really need is a semi-auto that will kick 'em out as fast as you can get a sight picture and pull the trigger, something between 45 and 50 caliber to reduce muzzle jump and recoil, something that is not so loud so that it would scare the animal less, something economical to shoot, and something you would be proud to shoot.
Well how about this!
Twenty shots in less 30 seconds!
A Magazine that holds 40 rounds.
A Break-Down for easy portability.
Deadly accurate.
Quite as a mouse in house slippers.
Chambered in .46 caliber.
Enough power to shoot through a 1" pine board at 100yds.
And, it has been around a long, long, time, since somewhere around 1790.
Also, it was mentioned no less than 39 times in the Journals and writings of Lewis & Clark!
It is the beautiful Girandoni Air Rifle!
(Make sure you have the sound on.)
Girandoni air rifle as used by Lewis and Clark. A National Firearms Museum Treasure Gun. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pqFyKh-rUI)
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Riley/MN on October 29, 2013, 10:49:04 PM
Post by: Captchee on October 30, 2013, 07:30:27 AM
. though im not sure they carried the magazine capability of the Girandoni, which was actually designed primarily as a military rifle .
I know its probably personal preference but myself I prefer the earlier ball cylinder types of air rifles . I just don’t like the shape an line of the Girandoni.
One of these days , if I ever can break free long enough , im going to build me one of those ball cylinder rifles
Now all that being said , Air rifles are growing in popularity . There are whole groups dedicated to air rifle hunting which includes north American big game as well as African big game
Post by: fahnenschmied on August 18, 2015, 03:06:33 PM
Post by: snake eyes on August 19, 2015, 12:31:11 PM
Thanks for that link......I want one! :shake [/color]
Post by: Uncle Russ on August 19, 2015, 02:58:01 PM
Quote from: "snake eyes"
Russ,
Thanks for that link......I want one! :shake [/color]
You betcha Snake eyes!
I find it tremendously interesting that such a rifle has been around for all these years, yet so little information is ever shown or even known about it.
This thread is 2 years old, and you can see from the number of posts that even though many of us would like nothing better than owning such a rifle, overall interest is extremely low.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Riley/MN on August 19, 2015, 05:56:12 PM
Did I show you guys this one from the visitor center in Mandan, ND? I don't know if it is functional or not, but it sure looks the part....
Post by: Uncle Russ on August 19, 2015, 08:15:02 PM
You're right, it does "look" the part.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Riley/MN on August 20, 2015, 12:38:36 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on August 20, 2015, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: "Riley/MN"
Obviously a repro, so if it is a shooter it is a shame that it is living in a box behind glass....Yep, seems most of 'em nowadays are made more for lookin than actual shootin.
Still yet, make no mistake about the historical significance of such a rifle.
The fact that they just never caught on, even with the hunting / shooting community has always had me baffled.
I mean heck, a repeating rifle before repeating rifles were in vogue, ...it was, IMHO, a doomsday rifle before its time. If both sides during the Civil War would have had such rifles there would have been NO ONE left to run the machines, or till the soil. Think about it!
Do you have any idea how old this reproduction might be?
Even better, do we know for sure that it is a modern day reproduction?
No matter what, it's still very interesting,
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Riley/MN on August 20, 2015, 02:35:13 PM
Post by: hawkthrower on August 21, 2015, 12:18:27 AM
Post by: Captchee on August 21, 2015, 08:01:04 AM
the Girandoni and more then a few rifles like it , were designed and fielded for the military.
For the most part from what I have read ,they were found troublesome , unreliable and logistically speaking a nightmare in the making .
The one thing all the air designs of the period had in common was a intricate check valve system with a leather diaphragm. It was not easy to repair in the field and often leaked . It also could not be recharged in battle . As such a soldier would carry a replacement cylinder which would bring the munitions issue capability up to the given standard for line troops . But again with un reliable check valves a commander could find themselves losing 1/3 of their capabilities before ever reaching the main battle field .
The other issue which was alluded to in the video was the air tanks and their ability at the time to fail
I have read reports that suggested L&C may have had up to 6 of the Girandoni . But only one was in working order .
Another issue that I have read concerning the designs with loading tubes , is that the tube was easily damaged either by being contaminated or by being dented . IE the rifle became useless once used as a bayonet platform .
Lastly logistics.
As most of us know , these rifles and those like them , have air pumps . The Girandoni that L&C carried had a hand pump which was screwed into a tree or log . However the Girandoni was actually fielded with a larger air system that was really a big compressor and tank , mounted to a horse or Ox drawn wagon . As the wagon moved it worked the pumps which stored the air in a large tank . From these tanks the rifles air cylinders were filled .
This also somewhat restricted troop movements as they had to be within range of the wagons.
The air wagons faced much the same issues as the rifles in that often times they leaked or simply did not compress air . While these air wagons were held in the rear , they still had to be close enough to support the units . As such a well placed rifle shot would take the whole system out .
Or in the case of running out of air , the wagon would then have to be driven for some time in order to fill it to the point it could resupply the troops .
So in the end , while these rifles were repeaters , they only were fielded in a few countries and only in limited numbers . Simply a technology that was ahead of its time .
This doesn’t change the fact that the Girandoni is only one design of many different makers . Personally I like the Ball designs better . They look just like a flintlock , long rifle , but have a large ball type air cylinder that screws onto the bottom of the forearm . Somewhere around here I have a bunch of photos of different period air rifles
Post by: hawkthrower on August 21, 2015, 08:58:52 AM
Post by: Two Steps on August 21, 2015, 09:54:56 AM
Al
Post by: Uncle Russ on August 21, 2015, 01:00:30 PM
Very good post from Captchee, well written, and extremely interesting!
You pointed out no less than four things that I had personally never given thought to.
Sooo much to learn, sooo little time!
hawkthrower....that was just plain awesome!
Thanks!
Uncle Russ.....
Post by: Captchee on August 21, 2015, 03:18:04 PM
I would have to look and see if he was still offering the receiver or not . There was word that he was stopping production do to no real interest . The one time I talked with him he said that 99% of his business was more modern bolt type designs
I some years ago made a ball cylinder rifle in 36 cal for a customer . Unfortunately I cant show you that rifle as part of the agreement .
However I can tell you that what I used was a modern paint ball gun internals . I never could find someone to build me a ball cylinder . Thus we had to use the air gun tank . Because of that I have never made another .
It should be noted that most of the better paintball guns have air systems that provide far greater pressures then the original 200 year old designs could ever withstand .some will hold action pressures over 3000 psi
Through the crono that rifle easily produced 1400fps with a 36 cal ball.that was with a 1800 psi tank
Which by modern air gun standards is very slow as they are often putting pushing center fire type velocities.
Anyway , here are some of the photos I collected as part of my research for the build I did .
As I stated earlier , there were many different air gun makers through out the later 19th century . Most from what I have read were vying for military contracts of one form or another . Girandoni is the one we know mainly because L&C carried at least 1 . so ill skip photos of that rifle .
Samuel Evens
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Rifles/_22Samuel%20Evans_zpstch4awum.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Rifles/_22CUTSamuel%20Evans_zpsabpfdfeu.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Rifles/_22CURSamuel%20Evans_zps9nbr4weq.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Rifles/_22CULSamuel%20Evans_zpsweyfm7ao.jpg)
this is another butt stock cylinder rifle made by Lukens IE air tank is actualy the butt stock
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Rifles/Lukens-DNH-full550jpg_zpsjrdbadwv.jpg)
Ball tank/ cylinder rifles
Blaisdell
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Rifles/09-14-09-05Blaisdell_zpsopzblgfk.jpg)
S Jover
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/Rifles/_10SILOJover%20London_zpsanen22ww.jpg)
Post by: Riley/MN on August 21, 2015, 06:28:20 PM
Post by: rhshilling on August 29, 2015, 02:08:36 PM
If I remember correctly, there was an argument as to whether the Smithsonian has the actual L&C air rifle or whether it is at the Virginia Military Institute.
When the Heinz Museum put together the 200th anniversary exhibit in conjunction with the Smithsonian, they commissioned a replica to be built. The builder, Jeff Roberts, was a friend of my brother when they were in high school together.