Post by: 4-Liberty on December 28, 2013, 05:03:42 AM
I have a few photos to show so far (if I can figure out how to post them).
Draw-filing bottom 5 flats (42" Colerain Barrel).
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/DA7AA489-FAA7-4D0E-9C06-EA3970C71CCA_zpsnarfw0v8.jpg) (http://http)
The Stock (semi-fancy curly maple).
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/C2AAE406-B13E-4F0D-84BC-7CA4F00BE39A_zpsbu3xajr7.jpg) (http://http)
Inletting the barrel.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/301AA895-580B-44E6-B564-DCA7BC79845D_zpsf9n3cvll.jpg) (http://http)
Finished barrel channel.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/C4FD791A-645B-458C-A292-8E20F44904E1_zpsbteczlre.jpg) (http://http)
Trigger assembly.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F3A825CF-CB2B-4D76-B4EB-03A2B1C1BB55_zpsy8z1llbe.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: ridjrunr on December 28, 2013, 06:58:34 AM
Post by: Riley/MN on December 28, 2013, 11:31:17 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 28, 2013, 11:49:43 AM
Post by: sse on December 28, 2013, 08:04:05 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 31, 2013, 05:45:38 AM
Post by: Hank in WV on December 31, 2013, 04:31:52 PM
Post by: Captchee on December 31, 2013, 04:59:12 PM
go slow and you will get it . it wont seem like it as the barrel will go in and out so many times .
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 02, 2014, 01:01:27 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 19, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
Thanks for the help!
Post by: Captchee on January 19, 2014, 12:23:36 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 19, 2014, 12:42:16 PM
I've heard of using steel wool, what do you think of this?
Would you suggest doing this before I cut the dovetails, or after?
Post by: Captchee on January 19, 2014, 04:57:13 PM
Quote
Do you mean to use up to 300 grit paper to draw-file (paper warped around the file), and then move to a fine emry cloth
you can do that if you like
you should have a fine file to do the finish draw filing . then come back with 300 or better emery paper on a block and block sand the barrel to take out any file lines you might have . there really isnt any need to go past 300-350 . unless your doing a finish like niter blue . in which case you take it way down to a very fine polish . but always polish with a backer block or you will round the edges of the flats.
as to prior to cutting the dove tails . you dont want to do any draw filing after or you will end up with the dove tailed part “like sights “setting proud . Light finish work wont hurt to do after you cut the dove tails . But if you have draw filed correctly you should have a real nice surface now .
OHHh and polishing to smooth can actually slow the rusting process if your going to brown the barrel
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 20, 2014, 01:18:20 PM
I guess the next step is to cut in the dovetails for the barrel lugs. I planned on marking the inside width of the dovetail in the bottom flat, and the depth of the dovetail on the two bottom oblique flats. Then I would use a hack saw to cut a series of cuts within those marks, and then file off the high spots until i reach the depth marks. Then plan on cutting in the dovetail with a "safeside" 3-cornered file. This is my first time, does that sound about right?
It's a 42" straight barrel with 3 lugs; I plan on placing the first lug (breech end) 11" from the breech. That would place it about 1.5" behind the ramrod entry pipe, but I'm not too sure about where I should place the 2 forward lugs. I'd like to hide them under the two forward ramrod pipes but the tangs of the ramrod pipes are as wide as the pipe itself. The problem is that I'm afraid the barrel lug mortise will break through the ramrod grove. I could shave some metal off of the barrel lug but it already is a pretty small target to hit with a drill, or I could cut in an notch on the ramrod pipe tangs but that might take some precision lining them up correctly on the stock. Or I could just go through the stock with the barrel lug mortise and let it be covered up by the ramrod. I don't really want to do that because I will always be aware of the imperfection. Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks Captchee! This greenhorn really appreciates the info!
Post by: Captchee on January 20, 2014, 02:25:29 PM
your dove tail procedure sounds correct .
Remember to measure twice cut one . Its actually for me , measure 8 or 9 times and cut once, . I forget my measurements LOL
Also stay alittle inside your marks . Its much easier to take a little more metal off then it is to try and replace it once its gone
But first there are some things that need to be looked at that are specific to Pre- carves .
Y have you dropped your RR down the bore and marked the breech face yet ?
Then compared the breech location to where the center of the pan will be when you fit your lock ?
See you do not have the luxury of adjusting your lock very much do to the mortise inletting already being done .. So you have to make sure your barrel inlet is fare enough back so as to be able to place a liner or drill a flash hole so that its center of the pan on the lock .
Once you have confirmed that then you can positioning and installing under lugs
As to the pins .
Normally I place my front pin 2½ to 3 inchs back from the muzzle . That will make it forward of your first RR pipe . The middle one is place at ½ the distance between the entry and the pipe at the muzzle end.
Now the exception to the distance on the front pin is that if your doing a molding along the RR channel AND that molding is to stop at say 3 ½ inchs from the muzzle , then , the front lug must be back alittle . BUT the rule normally is that with a small thin forestock , you want the front lug as far forward as you can
.
When it comes to the under lugs breaking through to the RR channel . Yep that can happen. Especially if your working with a stock that has a proper thickness web between the barrel and the RR channel . IE1/8 to 3/16th .
Most pre carve stock makers leave it on the ¼ inch side though .
Its actually not as had to hit the under lugs as you would think . But its important you get as good a fit of the barrel to the channel as you can .
Also you will need a depth gage , a cheep Micrometer or a small 3/8, slide T square .
But we can address that when the time comes
don’t jump to far ahead as there are things we need to look at before you even start to worry about setting pipes and drilling for pins
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 20, 2014, 03:15:36 PM
I just measured the web between the barrel channel and the RR grove and its 0.26" at the muzzle end, and the barrel tenon is 0.18" so that will give me 0.08" of webbing left. I'll just have to take it slow as to not break through.
When you say the front pinning might be impacted by molding along the RR channel, what exactly do you mean by that and how would it be impacted? And by "molding" do you mean a decorative bead or grove along the forestock?
Post by: Captchee on January 20, 2014, 03:43:53 PM
Yes molding = bead work or channel . How it impacts is that I don’t like my pins to be in a thin belly of the stock which is often produced by a nose cap . Thus I put them in the molding so that they have a little more wood around them
Quote
I just measured the web between the barrel channel and the RR grove and its 0.26" at the muzzle end, and the barrel tenon is 0.18" so that will give me 0.08" of webbing left.Maybe , maybe not . At this point you have no real idea as you don’t know if the barrel will still need to be dropped lower , moved back .
This is one of the things that I hate about working with a pre inlet lock mortise . Not only is 99% of the time the lock not in the proper location , But the mortise isn’t inlet so the lock fits . You do realize you will be doing the final fitting on that right ?
Your not expecting the lock to just drop in the hole
that’s why you cant inlet the barrel lugs into the stock yet because some times on pre carves , not only does the barrel have to be brought back to fit the pre carve lock inletting , but it may also have to be inlet deeper down into the stock so that the flash hole ends up center of the side barrel flat OR in the case of using a liner , so that the liner doesn’t end up crossing onto another flat.
Since you pulled the breech plug , did you check to see that the plug was properly faced and mated to the inside shoulder so that it would seal when tightened down ?
Post by: Captchee on January 20, 2014, 03:47:01 PM
you will be fine to set the underluch . just dont inlet it and exspect to have to remove it as your more then likly going to have to move the barrel back and possably down
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 20, 2014, 05:10:54 PM
I do understand that I will have to finish the lock mortise to correctly fit the lock into the stock, and so the lock's bolster is flush against the barrel, but I never considered that I might have to drop the barrel channel to position the flash hole. I thought I might have to just move the barrel back a touch. I suppose I will see tomorrow if that is something that I will have to do. Fingers Crossed! LOL!
As long as we're on the subject, what is the correct vertical position for the flash hole? I know there's many opinions on this, but was hoping for a consensus. I've heard of the "sunset" position, but that could be translated into a number of different positions. If I were to make a guess, I would put it just above the top level of the pan as you are looking at it straight on from the side. Sort of resembling the omega symbol " ? ". The bottom portion of the symbol resembles the flat top of the pan and the circle resembles the flash hole. Do I position it so that the bottom of flash hole is just touching the top of the pan as you are looking directly from the side, and centered left to right?
Post by: Captchee on January 20, 2014, 06:04:46 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 21, 2014, 03:38:02 AM
Post by: Captchee on January 21, 2014, 07:23:55 AM
hope you get your lock today . that would help you out alot
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 22, 2014, 09:24:13 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/B38F2222-D070-4942-8166-2A4FF21265FE_zpsfehsxkn3.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on January 22, 2014, 05:57:23 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 22, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Post by: Trois Castors on January 22, 2014, 06:39:03 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 24, 2014, 12:01:29 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/EE0E753A-592A-44B2-9358-EE53D1CC5E6B_zpsmjqsbngy.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on January 24, 2014, 05:22:34 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 25, 2014, 06:45:55 AM
Post by: Captchee on January 25, 2014, 07:20:48 AM
In mot saying its ok to just slap the barrel in . you will be taking it in and out many time thought the build . Just be careful and slow when replacing or removing it .
The barrel however should easily come out with only slight , wedge pressure from the nose of the forearm . So if its extremely tight now , it will be even tighter after finishing . . Keep in mind that the forearm wood on a long rifle does not support the barrel. When completed , it will be thin and rather weak . So what really happens is the barrel actually supports the wood . Thus you can break the stock when trying to replace or remove the barrel if things get to tight
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 27, 2014, 06:41:43 AM
It's pretty much saying that the rear lock bolt entry (side plate side) should be lower in position than its exit on the lock plate side.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/4F96CFF3-4ABD-4AC5-B4FB-C6E2A35FAA14_zpsg9mpgio2.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on January 27, 2014, 11:43:04 AM
While I like shumway’s book , which is what I learned the basics on many , many years ago , is IMO good , its often time lacking in details that are rather needed .
In this case WHY is the lock bolt canted . All he says is that its for architecture. But what is it that he is really talking about lets take a look at this original Derrick “thanks to the ALR virtual Museum “
(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww81/ALRLIBRARY/Dickert%20J%20120602-5/4-1.jpg)
Take note of the mortise. Notice how the top of the left hand mortise begins as as a line off of the top of the side flat . As such , both your bolt and side plate must set below that line . This is the architecture he is speaking of .
For the most part this common thought all the different makers . Sometimes you might see that line a little high but its not often .
Also if we look at the lock plate mortise , its also aligns with the top of the opposing side barrel flat
(http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww81/ALRLIBRARY/Dickert%20J%20120602-5/3-1.jpg)
Again this is the architecture Shumway was speaking of in his suggestion on canting the angle of the bolt
Now as to the Depends part .
Shum way in his writings , as do most other writers , assumes you are building from a plank not a
Pre-carve . I know of no books being published about building from pre-carves . that’s Odd because frankly they have issues that are not covered in the books and thus folks struggle through or make very big mistakes . Basically the more you have done for you , the greater your issues can be concerning a pre-carve because in turn you reduce your options .
So in this case you are stuck with your lock inlet . It is where it is and you now have to deal with that .
vs. from a plank you can make planned adjustments like slightly canting the tail of the lock down to help position the rear bolt and help the front bolt clear the RR channel ..
So what to do ?
Well , if you have not noticed yet , most everything in building a rifle is about planning . it’s a game of chess . Not only are you looking at your next move but you also have to look at the effects of that move on everything else . IE everything is linked .
So set back an plan out your lock bolts placement. In doing so realize that the placement of the bolt is then going to effect your side plate and your Ram rod channel .
So the more info we have , the better of we will be .
So here is what I would do if it were me .
Remember back when shumway was talking about drilling the RR hole , he discussed drilling small holes in the bottom of the barrel channel so as to judge the position of the RR .
Drill two in the bottom of the barrel channel . One so that its even with where the front lock bolt will be and one just back of your entry thimble .
Now place the RR in the stock so that its all the way back . Insert a small piece of wire or what have you in the holes tell it touches the RR . that’s the top of your hole . Mark that position on both sides of your stock .
It should be just below your reference line for the bottom of the barrel channel .
Now remove the RR and again insert your wire tell it touches the bottom of your hole . Mark that location on both sides of your stock . Now take a strait edge and draw a line between the upper marks and one between the lower marks . Now you know where the RR channel is . you should have 3 lines on both sides of your stock
top line is the barrel channel . just below that the top of your RR Hole . Just below that , the bottom of the RR hole .
Now with your barrel placed in the stock and clamped so that its fully down in the barrel inlet we then look at the lock plate side of the stock .
Looking at the lock itself , there will be a thick section , back of the pan for you thread your rear lock bolt into. Make a mark in your inlet that corresponds with the position on the lock . Draw you a line all the way around your stock so that it corresponds with that mark in your lock inlet .
Now with your micrometer , measure from that point down to the existing belly “IE where the triggers will eventually set . Take that measurement and transfer it to the left side mortise. IE you now have a vertical line "the line you drew around your stock " and a horizontal line "the measurment to the bottm of the stock "
Double check your measurements.
Do the same thing with the front lock bolt position .
You now know where the lock bolts will come out if your drill strait .
Set back an look at what you have and ask yourself these questions .
A) will the placement place the rear lock bolt low enough to achieve the required architecture of the mortise. If not can the hole be angle slightly ?
Keep in mind that to much angle will then show up as the whole mortise must be at the resulting angle so that the bolt will be flat to the side plate OR the side plat must be brought to that angle . Myself i dont like angling the mortise itself. its just to easy to have to much .
OR can you lower the lock bolt position any at all where it threads into the lock .
DON’T GO TO LOW. You have to keep enough room for the threads to hold properly
B) does the position require the rear of the breach /tang support to be drilled through or notched . If so , make a not of it that .
C) will the front lock bolt go through the RR channel ?
If so where . Is it high low or center ?
It should clear or be high enough that you can file a notch around the bolt so as to clear the RR .
If its center then you might want to seriously consider only using the rear lock bolt . If you want the look of two bolts you can always turn the front bolt into a wood screw .
But it cannot run center through the RR hole .
So now you see the DEPENDS part of my comment . If angling the bolt slightly “within reason “achieves the desired results , then yes I would agree . But if it turns out that its not needed OR the required angle to be to great ,then I would not .
As you can see , by having someone else inlet your lock , it has now confined you to a given position . You no longer have the leeway of setting the lock a little low OR slightly canted so as to help with the bolt positions . . Simple fact maybe that no mater what you do , you may be stuck with the architecture of the mortise’s being a little high . Now some would disagree with me on this but. IMO its less of an issue to have the architeure alittle high then it is to have a majorly canted mortise .
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 27, 2014, 02:28:29 PM
In the mean time, I just finished inletting the barrel tang. I feel like i got a good wood-to-metal fit, but there's a couple things; first, I did my best to bend the tang to the curvature of the stock but its definitely not perfect. It's standing a little proud in a couple areas, about 1/3 I'd the way back and at the very rear. Should I try to rebend it to fit better, or just file it to to fit the curve? If I rebend it I run the risk of it not matching with the mortise I inletted, and if I file it I run the risk of the tang being too thin.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/AC644EFA-72E1-4976-B5E1-1EF470EF6EDA_zpsdl7ia1ig.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/5005A21F-6AF4-42C7-87A0-FC40887CEFAF_zpslhuhujrs.jpg) (http://http)
Second, the barrel is all of the way down in the channel but the bottom of the tang isn't making contact with with the bottom of the mortise. Either I bent the tang improperly or the precarved mortise is too deep. When I screw in the tang screw I'd like to have a firm bed for the tang to be screwed down on.
Post by: Captchee on January 27, 2014, 03:55:03 PM
The reason for that is when you install the triggers and resulting tang bolt , the tang is going to suck down deeper into the inlet .
In doing so the end of the tang that’s high now , will need to go down ..
But you need to get your barrel pined in place prior . That way you don’t end up with having the muzzle raise from the inlet when you tighten down the tang bolt
See how much higher the surrounding wood is at the breech , that’s about how much lower the rest of the tang will end up dropping down below the top of wood , when all is said and done .
I have found that with pre-carved stocks , you normally have at lest 3/16 to ¼ inch of wood to take off everywhere
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 28, 2014, 01:46:06 AM
Also, the book states that before the final finishing of the barrel the builder should file 0.02" off of the very back of the tang to allow for rearward movement of the barrel, otherwise it may eventually chip the rear of the tang mortise. Is this common practice among builders?
Thank you, very much for your advice. It is greatly appreciated! If you keep this up, I might have to name the rifle after you.
Post by: Captchee on January 28, 2014, 07:47:34 AM
But if you file the tang to the profile now , then once its pulled down in the inlet by the tang bolt , you will loose the profile and will have to re shape it .
Again , keep in mind that your stock needs a lot of wood removed before it is down to your finishing dimensions. Take note of how high the stock is above the breech area . Now think of the stock having a skin that is that thick or more . All that skin has to be removed .
One of the things a pre-carve does is give a builder an finished profile . It does not give you finish dimensions.
As to filing the tang short . Normally I don’t . what I do is bevel the underside edge . In doing so any backward movement will force the tang proud vs. chipping out the stock . The other thing the bevel does is that while it helps in providing a tight inlet , its also deduces the chance of undercutting the inlet . IE , often times if you try and do a 90 deg deep inlet . You don’t end up at 90 deg down in the inlet . If it ends up undercut , then when you file the part down or file the wood down to the part , what first appeared to be a nice tight inletting job , is suddenly a grand canyon type of opening surrounding the part .
Tangs normally have a lot of meat on them, ¼ inch or more . so as long as yours does, you will be able to file it down to profile once you get things together .
As to whats common with other gun makers .
Each of us do things a little differently . IMO none of us regardless of the level of experience , stop learning new ways on new techniques. Most likely if we do were about to be 6 feet under .
So my advice to you is as you grow in this experience , keep in mind that knowledge can come from a lot of different places . Never ever get so full of yourself that you fail to see the knowledge you can gain from even someone who you may think to be less knowledgeable then yourself .
As such all I can tell you is how I do my work . Sometimes that’s common with other gunsmiths . Sometimes its not . Its how I do it . As such it doesn’t or wont hurt my feelings in any way if you chose to do a given task in a different way . All that maters is you achieve the same end result
OHH PS .
The gun will tell you its name by the time you are done . Every gun I have ever built had a name before I left my hands . I just don’t tell the customers what that name is .
If you don’t rush into these tasks , the wood and metal will begin to speak to you . Listen to it . When you do, things will go smoothly . When you don’t , you will struggle. So if you find yourself struggling , its time to step back , gather your thoughts until such time as you once again picture a end result .
Go slow
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 29, 2014, 11:11:32 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F787AF3A-D08F-4408-9AF7-4C55943AEDD1_zps4bqsmv4l.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/19E47886-7201-4B47-8572-04C635C00773_zpsj6qy3eno.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E1D54CB2-9408-4048-AACF-F4D7655418E7_zps4fuo2c9d.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8247BC03-B5F5-4793-8B3B-988016AB21EA_zpsmfpo61wk.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/44386233-C3A1-4B18-AD89-45074E8A9712_zpsbopue5ad.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F925B757-57AE-4AFB-83D7-C7D361631A69_zpstxdslkme.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: TallTexan on January 29, 2014, 07:08:14 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 29, 2014, 07:43:43 PM
Quote from: "TallTexan"
Please educate me as to what is the clear blue substance around the spot where the dovetail is filed and what is it's purpose?
What you are seeing is a form of "Dykem Blue"....It is used by machinist and gunsmiths to insure a near exacting fit / finish.
Used as a marker it is temporary, easily removed, and provides tell / tell signs of contact with other materials.
It is a must for any gun tinkerer.
ITW Professional Brands l Dykem® l Hi-Spot l DYKEM® Hi-Spot Blue (http://itwprofessionalbrands.com/dymon-product.php?product=1172)
Uncle Russ...
Post by: TallTexan on January 29, 2014, 08:25:02 PM
Post by: Captchee on January 29, 2014, 08:47:51 PM
Nice job on the dove tail Liberty .
Next time , before you try and cut all those little notches out with the hack saw, run a layer of masking tape on each side . That way if your saw slips it stands less of a chance of marring up the surface of the barrel.
It really does suck when the saw slips out and screws up a corner of the flat .especially if your cutting the dove tails for the sights .
Again though , very nice job on the dove tail
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 30, 2014, 01:42:36 AM
I will definitely use tape next time.
This was kind of a nerve-racking process, but I just took it slow and cut and filed a little at a time. Now I just have to inlet the tab into the barrel and repeat that two more times.
TallTexan: Yup, that be Dykem. If you look at the first few photos above you will see I have some lines scribed onto the barrel. I measured the dimensions of the tab that I was to inlet and transferred that to the barrel and as long as i saw and file within those lines, I'm good to go!
If you want to build a muzzleloader, I say just do it. I've always wanted to build one myself but I just kept putting it off. This is my first attempt, and I'm glad I made the step and decided to do it. I just wish I had done it earlier. I'm really enjoying myself with this project. I figured I'd take er slow and steady and when I finish, I finish. There is A LOT of help on here to get you through the process.
The guy in the video link below has a series of videos that he's made to show his progress of his Bucks County Pennsylvania Longrifle build. I'm a "visual learner" so it has helped me quite a bit.
If the link doesn't work, just Youtube search "Track of the Wolf" and it's the first video that comes up (and he has 18 updates and counting).
Track of the Wolf Bucks county rifle kit unboxing - YouTube (http://youtu.be/DJBNg_NLASA)
Post by: TallTexan on January 30, 2014, 01:50:57 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 30, 2014, 01:59:18 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 30, 2014, 10:49:42 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/A784B42C-A1A1-4978-AC20-B16F83EC09B8_zpsplcvqgvx.jpg) (http://http)
Barrel tenon mortise.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/BAB1E5F8-C4FF-493F-8D7C-F5B845B093D0_zpsnpb8x8sl.jpg) (http://http)
My work shop.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/56F3F9DB-BAE9-4B71-9DA8-DFAED32EF64D_zpsvyggxdux.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on January 30, 2014, 11:08:24 AM
nice work area to . one doesnt need much more then that .
Post by: gunmaker on January 30, 2014, 01:00:36 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on January 30, 2014, 01:56:38 PM
I seem to justify my clutter with different projects....all in some state of completion known only to myself.
Good on ya 4-Liberty! :notworthy
Uncle Russ...
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 30, 2014, 03:23:08 PM
Hmm, a half-stock Lancaster Longrifle. :lol:
I just marked out my spot for the front barrel tenon. I plan on placing it 3.75" back from the muzzle (measuring from the middle of the tenon), and the front ramrod pipe will be about 1/4"-1/2" behind the tenon. I just wanted to know, before I start cutting, if that is too far back? I'm pretty sure it's not, but I just wanted to double check. I will be placing a brass grooveless muzzle cap on eventually.
Post by: Captchee on January 30, 2014, 03:42:24 PM
Post by: greggholmes on January 30, 2014, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: "TallTexan"
Please educate me as to what is the clear blue substance around the spot where the dovetail is filed and what is it's purpose?
dykem blue is a brand name, its also know as Prussian blue.
http://www.toolup.com/aervoe_6090_prussian-blue-high-spot-indicator.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp1073750&gclid=CMqSs82Hp7wCFUVlfgodMU8ARw
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 02, 2014, 01:09:52 PM
Post by: Captchee on February 02, 2014, 03:06:17 PM
The other thing is the pins help hold the barrel in place which strengthens the stock while working on the forearm which will become very weak and easily broken . In other words since its pinned you don’t have to worry about keeping the barrel in the stock by your vice or clamps
Also because the barrel is pinned , you can then place your nose cap which is what will define the largest % of the forearm from mid point up .
As to the panels growing wider . Some do , some don’t . many of those that do , do so as a way to transition to the carving around the entry pipe .
Now this shaping is also where I disagree with the video your watching.
The triggers need to be set to depth . That depth defines how thin you can make you belly in relation to the RR channel . It also defines your pull and the location of your TG . Which in turn defines your wrist , Length of comb and helps with the lock panels.
Without that you end up with a deep fat bellied rifle .
I know its real hard to hold back . You want to start seeing things take shape . But remember everything ties together . Hence the order of build . Jumping out of sequence in the wrong area will effect other things . Stay the course . It will pay off down the road
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 05, 2014, 03:43:08 AM
They are as follows:
-Mark tenon & lock bolt drill holes
-Drill/pin barrel tenons
-Drill/tap lock bolts
-Assemble trigger
-Align trigger with sear
-Inlet trigger plate
-Drill/tap tang bolt
-Drill/tap touch hole
-Sand butt plate
-Inlet butt plate
-File/sand trigger guard
-Inlet/pin trigger guard
-Inlet/pin ramrod pipes
-Inlet muzzle cap
-Cut dovetails for sights
-Shape stock
-Inlet side plate/thumb/cheek/ patchbox/ toeplate inlays
-Engrave metal
-Carve stock moldings
-Finish stock surface
-Polish brass
-Sand barrel to 320 grit
-Brown barrel
I made this list keeping in mind how each task will affect the following tasks down the road. If there's any alterations or additional tasks that you suggest, please let me know.
Post by: Captchee on February 05, 2014, 07:18:11 AM
Post by: greyhunter on February 05, 2014, 11:12:54 AM
Post by: Captchee on February 05, 2014, 06:08:44 PM
Quote from: "greyhunter"
Having only put one fowler together, (So I don't know what I'm talking about), I question why you would wait til the end to brown the barrel? Are you planning on unmounting the barrel after it is pinned to do this? I soldered my tenons on, then browned the barrel, mounted it and pinned it, then finished the stock. I was lucky enough to get the pins right the first time, let alone removing them and reinstalling.
as i said before , the barrel supports the forearm , the forearm does not support the barrel . So as your shaping , sanding , carving , it helps to have the barrel pinned to the stock . If the barrel is already finished , then you have to be especially careful damage the finish on the barrel .
At this stage the barrel is still going to come out and back any many times .
The order is also a little misleading as some of the things actually happen at the same time .
Take the carving . This should be done IMO once the stock is brought to the point its near ready to finish stain . But once the carving is done then you have some sanding and shaping to do up to the carving .
Also concerning the finish . IE stain and oil . While the stock is drying , you can finish the barrel . So once the stock is dry , the barrel is simply put back in the stock .
As to the pins . I leave them long until the stock has been brought to 90 + % shape . That way they are easily taken out and replaced
Post by: greyhunter on February 05, 2014, 11:30:13 PM
Post by: Captchee on February 06, 2014, 06:42:11 AM
To remove them , I use a small piece of 3/32 brazing rod that I have set to a small handed. .
Any rod would do , even an extra pin. Just make sure it’s the same or preferably slightly smaller in size .
Thus even if the wood swells slightly , all it takes is a slight tap with a wood or rawhide mallet and the pins pop right out .
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 06, 2014, 08:54:18 AM
I just moved a nice floor drill press to my basement that my cousin was generous enough to let me borrow during my build. I also made a center-to-center die that's going to make drilling holes in the stock a breeze! Pretty excited about that!
Post by: Captchee on February 06, 2014, 05:54:43 PM
but as to the oppenion as to if its needed . the verdic is frankly about 50/50 . some folks do , some folks dont
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 08, 2014, 02:14:40 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/BA5D10C2-6B9D-4099-8F56-C19E21FAD757_zpsvmncao6e.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F4584EC7-B1B7-4D35-8CE8-ED251A90F7D7_zpsixze6lrp.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D3B860E5-5E45-4960-BD56-B08A57C9CCA5_zpsqfqjcauz.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: ridjrunr on February 08, 2014, 02:44:07 AM
Post by: Captchee on February 08, 2014, 07:08:04 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 08, 2014, 11:22:38 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/10F2566A-3490-4B92-A4A0-C89091318F65_zpstjocoxsk.jpg) (http://http)
A little closer look.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E5C3E1B8-B02D-48D0-AD20-3DB719C525EF_zpsnn96zwxn.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Uncle Russ on February 08, 2014, 11:53:46 AM
I am going to make it a "sticky" so it will remain available for others to learn from.
Thank you both very much for your detailed participation!
Uncle Russ...
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 08, 2014, 02:53:18 PM
Post by: Captchee on February 08, 2014, 05:58:42 PM
So go ahead and set the barrel in the stock . Check that the top of the mortise can be shaped down so that it is even with the top of the side flat . when doing so will the top of your lock plate be below that line enough .
NOTE : this is the architecture we discussed earlier when you ask about angle lock bolts
(http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=56&image_id=5594)
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 09, 2014, 11:36:39 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/FED5BA71-BE2B-4655-A20F-EC4ABEC6BEBA_zpsvsihwxrr.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on February 09, 2014, 01:47:19 PM
take your side plate and set the bolt into the top hole then trace around the head . you maybe able to remove some of the brass on the plate so as to not have to angle your bolts
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 09, 2014, 05:26:35 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/A52D24CB-5A66-4760-9397-7CCD40DD2E17_zpsgpviyidc.jpg) (http://http)
By the look of these two examples, the rear bolt comes very close to the edge of the lock plate molding. Maybe I'll be okay if I drill perpendicular, and if I need to drop the brass a little I could do some filing. I just want to make sure I have it all planned out before I drill any holes.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D6A71364-937A-4567-BFBF-841979EB71F7_zpspkbn0a5j.png) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/753C601C-B10E-458B-A407-D75AA3451948_zps6udijdst.png) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on February 09, 2014, 05:35:29 PM
.
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 09, 2014, 05:41:57 PM
Post by: Captchee on February 09, 2014, 06:04:14 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 10, 2014, 12:57:04 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/1ED66595-EC46-49F6-A928-7DC10E62AFA2_zpsv2ko4gqj.jpg) (http://http)
Lock bolts installed.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F9C71DCE-F921-402C-949E-246F9A979F08_zps1jtmzqhj.jpg) (http://http)
After measuring and remeasuring, I found out the rear lock bolt entrance could be dropped about 1/16" in order to be perpendicular, so that worked out perfectly! I still might file off the brass around the bolts to make it look a little sleeker.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/A7883F7E-591B-4326-A3C3-C3C57D0A0AD5_zpskljzey0o.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on February 10, 2014, 04:04:31 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 16, 2014, 09:37:55 AM
Outlining the trigger plate.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/2B55DB76-8143-42A9-A67B-36C0DAF9CC0C_zpsxpmc43iv.jpg) (http://http)
Scraping the final depth of the trigger plate.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/1665EFEE-7E75-4CB2-904E-92A7C17A8723_zpsza4ubb8n.jpg) (http://http)
On to the issues:
First issue is the curvature of the trigger plate. As you can see in the photo below, the depth of the trigger plate is quite-a-bit deeper at the ends than it is at the center near the triggers. The center is just a hair below flush. I've tried bending the plate a little and it helped slightly, but there's only so much that I want to bend it before I start messing up the mechanics of the trigger. So I guess I'm unsure on how to properly correct this.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/B565B872-ECC0-4B3A-A844-A7CC2A6EE934_zpskvtuhxmy.jpg) (http://http)
Second issue:
During the settling in of the trigger plate, somehow a gap was created at each end of the trigger plate. I outlined the trigger plate with an exactoknife and started chiseling away within the outline. As it was going down it seemed very tight at the ends of the plate, so much so that it was difficult to get the plate in and out and I was afraid that it might be so tight that it would peel a piece of wood off when taking it out. So I took a chisel and took a hair off of each end. This seemed to help, but the further I settled the plate in the wider the gap on the ends widened. I'm not exactly sure how this happened, but it happened. I guess there could no better place to mess up the inletting than on the ends of the trigger plate because the flaw will mostly be covered by the trigger guard.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/9EA0D304-F89F-4FCC-9AF5-682625A4EC26_zpsro0s0ofu.jpg) (http://http)
Which leads me to the third issue.
As you can see I didn't properly plan ahead the trigger guard. The front of the trigger plate is right where the front lug of the trigger guard needs to be. What I should have done was while laying out the outline of the trigger plate I should have checked the placement of the trigger guard, but I didn't do that so now I have to deal with it. I'm just not sure how to do that. I could cut off the trigger plate so it doesnt interfere with the trigger guard lug and plug the inletted space with a piece of maple that I don't have, or since the area will be covered with the trigger guard, I could glass bed it, which I do have. I am definetly open to other suggestions..
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/7C5FA090-C8BA-45D3-A8C1-36413D12326D_zpsjglo2hgo.jpg) (http://http)
Other than that, it's going pretty smooth!
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/701495DB-1A90-402A-8313-FCEC976A4E30_zpsjkjl6a0t.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on February 16, 2014, 11:15:15 AM
Quote
First issue is the curvature of the trigger plate. As you can see in the photo below, the depth of the trigger plate is quite-a-bit deeper at the ends than it is at the center near the triggers. The center is just a hair below flush. I've tried bending the plate a little and it helped slightly, but there's only so much that I want to bend it before I start messing up the mechanics of the trigger. So I guess I'm unsure on how to properly correct this.
. What you did is, for the most parts how I do it . Remember your working on a pre-carve. As such your going to take a lot of wood off of the surface. Frankly though it looks fine IMO . A little shaping of the lines on the bottom of the stock which will be needed anyway and it will come out perfect .
Your trigger guard is not going to set on the surface. It will also be inlet . As such the front of your trigger plate looks to be about right as your TG will be inlet to the point the sides of the casting are in the wood . IE the your angled flats should start on the wood surface. Done forget that your going to eventually be taking some wood of the belly of the stock .
When it comes to the back being low at the nose and tail of the trigger plate . Again that’s something you have to deal with a pre-carve that you shouldn’t have to when working from a plank .IE because the profile of the pre-carved stock has already been defined , there will be only a small area where the trigger plate will match the bottom curve of the stock . As such if your pull is not the same as defined in the original layout you end up with what you have and then have to make some adjustments
your rear tab of the TG will be inlet . As such the trigger plate must be below the wood to allow for that . If its still way lower then you can look at thinning the wood down alittle .
BUT!!!!! Before you do anything . Let me ask you this . When you inlet the trigger and took the photo , was the trigger set or unset ?. It looks to me that it maybe set , but
The reason it make a difference is that when you set the trigger , the main spring is going to need have more room then it does when inlet unset .. So when you pull the back trigger , the main spring is forced up so as to apply pressure . If you did not plan for that and simply inlet the trigger , un set , then your plate is actually going to move up in the inlet as the spring moves . Which is ok because you can simply shim the back of the plate.
Quote
Second issue:
During the settling in of the trigger plate, somehow a gap was created at each end of the trigger plate. I outlined the trigger plate with an exactoknife and started chiseling away within the outline. As it was going down it seemed very tight at the ends of the plate, so much so that it was difficult to get the plate in and out and I was afraid that it might be so tight that it would peel a piece of wood off when taking it out. So I took a chisel and took a hair off of each end. This seemed to help, but the further I settled the plate in the wider the gap on the ends widened. I'm not exactly sure how this happened, but it happened. I guess there could no better place to mess up the inletting than on the ends of the trigger plate because the flaw will mostly be covered by the trigger guard.
Frankly it’s a non issue unless your working with a trigger plate that’s not going to be covered by the guard .
There however is a few rules which keep one from doing what you did .
a) as you inlet , your inlet must be tight . that’s a given but its should not be so tight you have to drive the part down into the inlet . While one would think do so woul produce a proper inlet . It doesn’t for parts that may need removed. What will happen is the stock is going to swell alittle in the finishing process and you wont be able to get the parts back in or out . Proper inletting is slow business . Sometimes it seems like what’s being removed is nothing at all
b) think about what you have been given and how that can be used without taking away anything .
Now this may at first not make since . But what it means is that your trigger plate is giving you all you need to inlet it without doing what you did so as to be able to pry the trigger plate out .
So look at your photos of the triggers as they are inlet . What do you see that can be used ?
Take note that when you remove the main spring screw , you now have a threaded hole . Simply take another bolt of the same thread and screw it into the Trigger plate . Not only will this help you lift the plate in and out ,but if you cant lift it you can turn the screw in , thus applying upward force that pushes the plate out .
Next is that your missing your back screw hole in the trigger plate . You can drill that hole in the plate and thus give you another point that you can apple leverage .
c) later down the road when you have drilled and tapped the Tang screw , that tang scre can then be screwed into the trigger plate from the bottom so as to help you get the plate out . But again if your inletting of this part is correct , the fit will be clean and the part will be able to be removed with very little pressure
Quote
Which leads me to the third issue.
As you can see I didn't properly plan ahead the trigger guard. The front of the trigger plate is right where the front lug of the trigger guard needs to be. What I should have done was while laying out the outline of the trigger plate I should have checked the placement of the trigger guard, but I didn't do that so now I have to deal with it. I'm just not sure how to do that. I could cut off the trigger plate so it doesnt interfere with the trigger guard lug and plug the inletted space with a piece of maple that I don't have, or since the area will be covered with the trigger guard, I could glass bed it, which I do have. I am definitely open to other suggestions..
first let me say this . NO GLASS BEADING . don’t even for one second think of it as an option . IMO glass bedding should only be considered as a final consequence of accepting defeat for a very bad mistake .
But then one also needs to be able to realize when they made a mistake
What makes you think you made a mistake ?
Should you have planned it out and cut the trigger plate back alittle ?
Yes .
But you did not . But I submit to you that what you did was not a mistake in that its something that needs to be fixed all you did was make alittle more work for yourself . Which IMO isn’t a mistake
Think of it like this . You were given a map to drive to a location you had never been before . So you follow the map and its directions and thus get to your destination . Once your there you then see that it would have been a lot faster if you just followed one road . Thus drove strait to the location without having to take all the side roads .
Did you make a mistake ? NOPE . Not yet anyway . What you did was gain experience from looking at the over all picture from a different point of view . Which in turn will benefit you the next time your driving to that location .
This is the same thing
The only thing that’s changed in this situation is that instead of inletting the pin tab of your trigger guard down into wood , your now going to have to inlet it through the Trigger plate and carry it on down into the wood .
IE no mistake , just a change in the make up of the situation .
The only real mistake you may have made is if you did not consider how your tang bolt is going to come through . Double check that to insure it will miss the trigger and the front trigger spring . If it will your then fine
So what I would do is mark the mounting tab location on the metal of the trigger plate . Make sure that the trigger will set center just as you other wise . Scribe closely around the tab. Now take a small drill bit that’s smaller then the width of the table and drill out the inside of the area . Once that’s done , come back with a needle file and square up the hole to the point that the TG mounting tab fits nicely through the plate .
If you have a jewelers saw you can also just drill a small hole at each end and then cut out the area . Then clean up with a file so that the TG tab will slip nicely through
Now in some cases the tab will split the plate . IE 1/2 In the plate , ½ in the stock . In that case you make a nice notch to allow the tab to fit through .
Also Note that for the most part , these tabs are a lot bigger then they need to be . What they are is casting spurs’ that are located so they can be used as mounting tabs. They don’t really ne to be more then about an 1/8 inch thick and ¼ wide . As such in some cases they can be trimmed down so as to clear a trigger plate
Post by: Captchee on February 16, 2014, 11:21:05 AM
the lock will fire by pulling the fron trigger when the triggers are un set and fire when the triggers are set right ?.
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 17, 2014, 12:12:41 PM
That's great advice about using the screw holes to help remove a tight trigger plate. There was a couple times where I was wondering if i was going to get the plate out. I will definitely use that advice for next time.
I did reconsider the location of the trigger plate. With the front trigger unset in my original location, it took an awful lot of force to trip the sear. I played around with it a bit and found that if I move the trigger plate back, the unset front trigger only needed about a 3 lbs pull to trip the sear. So that's what I did. I removed a couple slivers of wood behind the trigger plate and settled it in. I moved it back about 1/8" and this seemed to solve a few issues:
1) It got rid of the gap to the rear of the plate.
2) The sear trips easily both set and unset.
3) I will now only have to cut a small notch in the trigger plate to accommodate the front trigger guard lug, rather than having to create a rectangular hole.
However the gap in front of the trigger plate widened a bit because of this but I don't think it'll be an issue. It's right where the trigger guard lug will be so that's pretty much a non-issue.
So I guess my next step would be to drill the rear trigger plate screw hole and tang bolt hole, or is there something that I'm missing?
Post by: Captchee on February 17, 2014, 02:00:26 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 25, 2014, 10:16:15 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/012E4E15-0365-4D18-8DDC-5C70D4619F9D_zpsgellnkzc.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3C63626B-37DC-4AA3-9D81-186D96083538_zpsvlq6jkjr.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D2317C13-A602-4E8F-8FE6-F636B07764AA_zpsbh43yatx.jpg) (http://http)
I suppose my next step is tackling the task of inletting the butt plate. This one makes me a little nervous.
Post by: Captchee on February 25, 2014, 04:33:41 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 27, 2014, 12:41:56 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/5EF3D1E7-7759-4021-81BB-40564106F287_zpsrhcdo8i5.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E39D78FD-EB11-4440-9E45-F5CAF89D3A5F_zps9lrhpgfe.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/073D1751-F3BF-4183-A850-706273FFBE4F_zps5cptq9u3.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Hank in WV on February 27, 2014, 04:59:32 PM
Post by: Captchee on February 27, 2014, 05:38:12 PM
Hank , the notch in the square is do that it can be used to mark pin locations on each side of the stockH
Post by: Hank in WV on March 01, 2014, 08:01:33 AM
Post by: melsdad on July 08, 2014, 09:29:01 PM
Post by: Captchee on July 09, 2014, 05:03:17 AM
Post by: snake eyes on July 09, 2014, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: "4-Liberty"
I suppose my next step is tackling the task of in letting the butt plate. This one makes me a little nervous.4-Liberty,
Hope you are still working on the build.....How you doing on it ????
snake-eyes
Post by: 4-Liberty on July 11, 2014, 05:51:50 PM
Cheers!
Post by: melsdad on July 11, 2014, 06:20:04 PM
Post by: petew on August 17, 2014, 02:33:16 PM
, and I am sure it will save Captchee from having to answer the same questions over and over again.Thanks to both of you for this very detailed question and answer thread. It is helping me as I go thru the same problems 4 liberty had and the ones I am yet to have. I am bookmarking this thread for reference as I go.
I know this thread is going to be a huge help for me and others that are attempting their first builds.
Thanks guys
Pete
Post by: 4-Liberty on August 18, 2014, 09:00:46 AM
Cheers!
Post by: 4-Liberty on October 30, 2014, 03:42:46 AM
So my question is, how thick were the origionals? I'm having a hard time finding good photos that show thickness. Also, if any of you have any tricks or techniques that help you move along faster with the triggerguard, I'm certainly open to suggestions.
Post by: gunmaker on October 30, 2014, 09:57:47 PM
Post by: Captchee on October 31, 2014, 08:26:51 AM
But one should also keep in mind that its not always the case
Some TG were often made from sheet brass others castings . So if your working on a rifle that has a a TG made from casting and of a late period , you often will find them to be thicker then those made of sheet/ rolled brass
Here is a link to an original Kuntz rifle that in the Met . While rather shy on photos , they do have some acceptable photos showing the rifle from the lock panels back to the butt plate . Thus they may help you judge the thickness of the TG as its much the same as yours
http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/24681?=&imgNo=4&tabName=gallery-label
Post by: 4-Liberty on November 08, 2014, 01:30:46 AM
Now on to the butt plate. What is the best way to inlet it? Down then in? In then down? Cutting the top comb flat? I'll be using a push-button patchbox release, if that makes any difference.
Post by: Captchee on November 08, 2014, 08:13:47 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on November 30, 2014, 06:03:40 AM
Here, I'm cutting a flat area for the top comb of the butt plate.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/458F3A43-036F-4595-AEC2-32B66E770401_zpsdyhww35t.jpg) (http://http)
Pressing on the transfer color.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/52F66E0A-687C-422D-9DF8-F4C54E99F1F0_zpskk93otiy.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3A193D5B-1687-4076-8FD6-F2494CFF4A38_zpsc1ywke7x.jpg) (http://http)
As you can see, I didn't do the best job of cutting in the curve of the butt plate into the stock. Looks like I'll have to inlet it in just a little bit deeper.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/7BEEE817-B9AB-4D15-8530-0D64567943C7_zpszypeqrpr.jpg) (http://http)
Removing the high spots.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/577AC94B-3CEE-4E44-A21E-76D5989AA277_zpsymtayb23.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/7E9C4559-2D15-4833-994E-CCEF55EAA1CE_zpspndbmv5c.jpg) (http://http)
Still a lot more to come!!
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 08, 2014, 12:28:51 PM
Finished inletting.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/63F56152-DC3E-4B03-B177-632368504221_zpsbgrb5fet.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/5F279491-F0EA-42FB-9ACB-C2DC0863BEB0_zpsffxzxw1n.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/71D92E50-EA99-4549-B384-4E488FFDB814_zpsmr8sg4f0.jpg) (http://http)
Drilling top BP screw hole.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/923A03F0-784E-4453-8FF4-CD1183E51598_zpsk1i0vaut.jpg) (http://http)
Marking drill location and drilling top screw hole into stock. Counter-sunk and screwed.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F9D177ED-8F0D-4119-8174-5E8345117E07_zpszgccbes8.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/AB77DC4A-2EC1-4F80-B271-B16C7CFCD347_zpssc0pijh7.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F95EC429-690C-42B0-8460-8D87726BF265_zpsh5ym7twj.jpg) (http://http)
Drilling bottom screw.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/01BD553C-2615-4F4D-9A8E-98D7337482E4_zpsyrafkq0l.jpg) (http://http)
All finished!
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3ECE2BDE-632B-4C2C-AA3C-189C65A10C6C_zpszulp5ijc.jpg) (http://http)
Next, I'll be moving onto reducing the ramrod grove depth and then inletting the muzzle-cap.
Post by: snake eyes on December 08, 2014, 12:51:35 PM
Look'in good. Can't wait till we shoot er.
snake-eyes
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 16, 2014, 02:17:48 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F87D6837-64AE-4781-99F8-B6FF510AE1EA_zpsfgtkdh2m.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3223DAB7-0ED5-4831-BBBA-88DA7D0A8EC7_zpslonvg6pw.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/2942FB4B-37D2-40F1-96BF-81BA7616C36E_zpsdiiqyzkf.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/369AC9B7-2DAD-46A5-AB2E-4D33850D1392_zpsmuar8cls.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/0DA0596C-A9B0-497F-B181-90B787BEFB2A_zpsn9zt1mzk.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/231A7E3F-18D7-4958-90DF-F9FD9061CC54_zpsdeo45aqw.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on December 17, 2014, 07:41:20 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 18, 2014, 05:28:50 AM
Post by: Captchee on December 18, 2014, 08:06:58 AM
that’s assuming one is using just a flat formed RR pipe . Cast pipes or very thick ones , need to go tell the inside of the pipe is flush with the bottom of the channel
Post by: Hanshi on December 18, 2014, 01:16:32 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 21, 2014, 06:35:01 AM
Marking 5" back from the muzzle.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/9251ADC6-8506-4BEA-A957-3F19C6C7C104_zpsqu6dzaoi.jpg) (http://http)
Inletting the ramrod pipe tennon.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D0655D0B-70C9-4CD6-AB62-D42BE2B4B780_zpsipeqtqeq.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/045EA21C-BB86-4514-86E0-41DBF0F1934E_zpsd1v3f9bc.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8F8B1FE9-C164-4608-B3FF-CEDE32CEE460_zpsyibxn42z.jpg) (http://http)
Tennon is in, now it's ti to sink it down.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/642A12B9-E5C3-42A0-9FA0-3FCC59B8DB97_zpsc7jok40c.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/78CA72E5-0392-4E07-B002-2E72537DF2F3_zpsidh7gbw0.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/7188694D-F7EA-474F-8E2F-2F377DD2FD34_zpskf08qhpc.jpg) (http://http)
And she's in!
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F152ADF2-8D95-46D4-BC37-9C8488340902_zps3i2uyebn.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 21, 2014, 06:58:02 AM
Post by: Captchee on December 21, 2014, 08:31:32 AM
As a note : things like the entry being slightly off or RR channels not being exactly true , are the same things you would see on many originals . Sometimes even very high end originals
Post by: sse on December 21, 2014, 09:00:43 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 21, 2014, 09:22:44 AM
Boy, you fellas are not only great for technical support, but emotional support as well! :hairy
Post by: Captchee on December 21, 2014, 09:36:08 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 23, 2014, 02:30:46 PM
Here's the before.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8B29E00E-6F53-4AF5-9C46-58314599A3EC_zpskde1bxai.jpg) (http://http)
And the after.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/85CD62DE-AD04-4456-BEFE-6E376E51A524_zpsaw5lklf4.jpg) (http://http)
A couple closer looks.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/917724F0-7CB4-43DE-AD01-2573D966A196_zpsykfeieyj.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/1FD9B7D7-BE4A-45D8-8499-AD7BC7DDD8C6_zps4gddufej.jpg) (http://http)
Now it's time to inlet it!
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 31, 2014, 06:24:21 AM
(I have a question that follows.)
I had to cut a notch out with a jewlers saw in order to accomidate the TG tennon.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E30AB138-9EB6-4C63-B0EC-3E3DDF188FD0_zpsqk9phizh.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D35EB972-2BDB-4403-82A0-EB9A9D12BB05_zpsdg7whscr.jpg) (http://http)
Starting to sink it in.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/5F7B3C94-D621-4EEC-BB80-D15570EA21E4_zps9svjgn4w.jpg) (http://http)
So, here is my issue. As you can see in the following photos, I've inletted the TG as far as it can go down because I am right up against the trigger plate that I had to notch out in order to fit the TG tennon. The trigger plate, that I inletted awhile back, is right flush with the wood of the stock, but I need to inlet the TG a little more in order to sink in the front TG tang. If I just cut off the trigger plate so I can inlet it a little deeper, I would have a gap between the TG and the stock because the trigger plate protrudes off of the sides of the TG. Or I could file down the trigger plate, but that might get a little messy. So I guess I'm not sure how to approach solving this problem.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/B6CE824A-01BB-4619-97F0-2A61E0A03257_zpszightvck.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/4EC0DD34-CE92-4234-8834-96167AD0A89F_zpshjgjnixv.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on December 31, 2014, 08:23:49 AM
thats what i would consider first . IOf the answer is no , then i would consider the following as opptions
1)_ As you said , you could cut off the Trigger plate . But that’s going to leave a hole . You could fill that hole. If you do a good job of matching the grain , only you will know .
2)_ you could file down the front of the trigger plate . But then if you did that your still going to have a step down below the wood , at the corners of your trigger guard. Which IMO would look worse then if you cut the end of the trigger plate off and then did a patch
3)_ trim down the Trigger guard in the area around the post . That way you can inlet the forward final of the TG ,a little deeper. Yet have the back step up onto the Trigger plate and still have the post drop through the hole
4)_ Scribe around the TG so that you can take your Jewelers saw and carefully trim the area out so that the TG can drop down through the trigger Plate .
5)_ cut the post off and silver solder it on at a point just forward of the Trigger plate . then file down the old location so that it steps up onto the trigger plate .
Frankly it all depends on the amount of work and how well you think you can accomplish that work . Frankly with what you have done so far , I honestly don’t think you would have a problem doing any of the above .
Now myself I would look back at your entry thimble . How deep have you inlet the final on that .
That depth is going to pretty much dictate the belly plain on your rifle . As such the forward final on your TG needs to be real close to the same depth . So looking back at your photos that you have posted , it would appear that you inlet the entry so it was pretty much flush with the existing belly of the stock .
Did you check to make sure your RR will fit through and into the stock properly ?
If you did and all was well , then it would appear that the existing plain of the belly of the stock is what your shooting for .
Normally the forward finals of the TG are not inlet to deep . Just to a point that the wood hits the side of the bevel ..
So taking that into consideration , I would most likely do #3 or #5 .
Between those two , at the point your at , I would probably go for #3 . If I had not yet cut the hole in the trigger plate and inlet the wood for the post , I would have went for #5
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 31, 2014, 09:19:47 AM
The RR entry pipe tang is inletted flush with the belly of the stock, and the inside portion of the pipe is flush with the bottom of the channel, so the RR has no problems getting into the entry pipe.
Thanks for all of the suggestions! I'm going to take another look at it. I'm actually leaning towards pluggin it. I never even thought of doing that. I think if I were to file down the TG where it meets the trigger plate, I wouldn't be able to get consistent contact between the two.
Post by: 4-Liberty on December 31, 2014, 01:45:04 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/55E808A2-84D8-443C-BAC3-504FDA80A2A5_zpsoaeiqnqh.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/DCBEB4B3-BF61-493A-930D-00AA3C83A481_zps3vdm1xk3.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8425F8E6-A392-4293-8F03-F170B1A96F70_zpsrl8lkvuc.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/FCA438B8-A867-42AA-A5E3-447AE0FAEE36_zpsoahihmgo.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 02, 2015, 03:07:11 PM
Boy, I feel like I'm having more problems than accomplishments at this point.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/23B340FE-B1BA-499D-AA87-4DF67DECCE9A_zps0x7wfhdf.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on January 02, 2015, 07:15:18 PM
what i have found its from is that your holes don’t align just so . If you pin has a flat or sharp end on it , as you try and drive it through , it acts like a nail and then blows out the other side .
What can help stop this from happening is to run a smaller pin through first so as to make sure the hole through the wood and the hole in the TG, or RR pipe , aligns . Then take your finish pin and round the end . Buff it good and smooth . If you do that and find a pin which doesn’t just tap down without much force , then pill it and find out why
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 03, 2015, 07:09:54 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/FE8C73D6-8986-48C3-8FC7-62D922B37382_zpswnzbpucr.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E2125462-36EB-417D-A47B-E1F4149F9CB7_zpsznielln6.jpg) (http://http)
The plug for the trigger plate turned out pretty decent.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E8EC3067-A58D-435A-BB7F-9A4DCC966A3B_zpswriohwxh.jpg) (http://http)
The blown-out side from the pin was repaired, and I don't think it'll be too noticeable because the fractures seem to run with the grain of the stock. Once sanded and stained, it should be good. I did, however, have to re-drill the hole for the pin because, for whatever reason, it ended up crooked. I used a drill press with a point-to-point adapter, so I don't know what I did wrong there. So now, as you can see, I have a tiny, pin-sized hole to fill. Any suggestions on what to use to fill it?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/41DBC78E-FD93-416A-8F82-5A3E7EC12A43_zpsc1gwtdxr.jpg) (http://http)
Now that that is done, I guess I'm onto shaping the stock!
Stay tuned!
Post by: Captchee on January 03, 2015, 09:33:58 AM
as to your pin hole . i would leave it tell your down to the point your ready just to finish sand . then plug the hole and re drill it . make the plug from the same wood you used for the trigger gaurd plug. Just trim the plug out of the side so you get matching grain . Also , make it alittle over size so you have to drive it in. . thus when you redrill , you get a full hole for your pin , not a larger hole with a little chip at the end that will break out the first time you have to remove the pin
Post by: Twowithone on January 04, 2015, 11:03:25 PM
Post by: Eric Krewson on January 06, 2015, 10:38:38 AM
Post by: Hanshi on January 06, 2015, 05:38:33 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 09, 2015, 03:31:42 PM
Captchee, to answer your question, I do have the front of the TG inletted down a bit into the stock. Although, it may not appear that way when the TG is in position, the mortise is about 1/16-3/32" deep.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/FFAE942A-C8BE-455D-9815-65B5EDD4BD4C_zpsoem8rnk4.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 10, 2015, 07:35:19 AM
I measured from the top flat of the barrel to the widest portion of the muzzle cap. I then transfered that measurement to the stock.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/415D2DFB-44CD-472A-965B-52DFAE7C5587_zpsgzrsihvu.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/2CBE76DA-CB17-47DA-894B-11EB337D91C2_zpsedbbgjvu.jpg) (http://http)
I then used a rasp to shave that portion of the wood away.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/56F3B6B1-AE35-4E8A-AF80-E1E75204EC93_zpsagx3rmlz.jpg) (http://http)
Here, you can see one side roughed in and the other side untouched.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E274A9C1-7EDD-46DB-80BB-25528D81E81E_zpsaeytp1o3.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D1AEBD1B-75AF-462A-B81D-37EF06A9028C_zpsxlhzep4b.jpg) (http://http)
Where the barrel meets the stock. Both sides are roughed in.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/AD467069-811F-49C9-B99F-501A12E30172_zpspureml8l.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E1BE4F0B-8B64-46EF-AAE4-F157513A4ADE_zpsymrqmfpa.jpg) (http://http)
Now on to the lower portion of the forestock.
How should this area be shaped for this particular rifle? I've read it should be U-shaped, but I've seen photos of Lancasters being V-shaped. And how do I go about getting this shape?
Post by: Captchee on January 10, 2015, 08:37:07 AM
Keep in mind , this shaping does not carry all the way to the nose cap .
your nose cap design defines the top of the forestock down to about mid point of the cap . The cap also defines the shape of the stock for a distance behind the cap.
Depending on the rifle im building , I carry the nose cap shape back at least an inch some times an inch and a half before I transition into the shaping to the RR channel
The pre carve stock for your rifle appears to have a very thick web between the barrel and the RR channel . As such you need to plan on shapes and molding that will help give the perception of length, and slimness if your wanting a slim rifle . If your shooting for a more heavy frame then you look at shapes and molding that do the opposite.
So at this point my recommendation would be to shape the stock , behind the nose cap , for a short distance , to the shape of your nose cap . This will help start the impression of slimness and give the impression of length. DON’T go to far back , keep at least a ½ inch in front of your front barrel pin .
Here are also some different fore stock shapes for you to consider . While you looking at these consider your moldings and how they will relate to your shape . IE will they be deep and in heavy or light relief . ?
Will they be just incise lines .?
Will you have a double row so that the shaping will come around from the barrel , drop into an incise line , then into a concave molding , back to incise then around to the edge of the RR channel?
Maybe you might want no moldings with just a nice S sweep coming off the barrel down and out to the RR channel . Its really up to you . But you have to plan this out . Some molding work takes more wood others take less .
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/forestockprofile.jpg)
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 11, 2015, 03:43:29 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/0AA1A98C-B81D-4290-B992-81DA046A6879_zpszt3nj9yu.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/BABB64E7-43AC-49C5-B6C6-6DF8DB2FC093_zpskyjzgqdg.jpg) (http://http)
It appears to be a combination of all three of these: an incised border, a releifed border, and a flute next to the barrel channel.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/A1CB48DD-0507-48D4-89CB-D1C99627C1A6_zpsgswqshax.jpg) (http://http)
Would you start roughing that in up to the line I drew for the top bevel as a V-shape, or would I draw a line under that line to make it more of a U-shape? I'm thinking the latter.
I hope I'm not tackeling something beyond my ability with this one!
Post by: Captchee on January 11, 2015, 10:40:09 AM
As to being beyond your ability . I would say NO . it does however take alittle work . but respectfuly , your building a gun and doing a very good job of it so far for your first attempt . you didnt shy away from that . i sure wouldnt from this .
Once you have the U then come back from the RR channel and lay out your concave boarder and bead . Lay it out as one width . You will come back later and separate the two . Just take a pencil and strait edge or a compass and draw it out so that its even on both sides of the RR channel .
Once you have that to your satisfaction , come back and start cutting on the upper relief .
Myself I use a chisel and plunge it into the wood , the full length of the line . Just don’t start off to deep as you will want to work the wood above the plunge to the same shape as your nose cap, tapering and blending the shape so that as you get to the forearm at the entry pipe , both will blend together .
Now for the concave boarder , you need to make a sanding tool . This is nothing more then 2 pieces of RR about 6 inches long and attached at both ends by a bridge .
The bridge can be nothing more then a small piece of wood screwed or glued to one piece of RR . The other piece of RR need to be able to be able to be adjusted . So its screwed alongside the first piece at the distance you want to make your concave start .
What this little tool allows you to do is sand in the concave boarder using the RR channel as a guide . You simply take a piece of 80 grit sand paper , rap alittle around one of the 6 inch pieces of RR. Set the other side into the RR channel and slide the tool up and down the channel .
Now for the bead , you will either have to cave and sand the as an incise or use a beading tool which can be purchased through any place that sells gunstock checkering tools . One could also make one . But at the price for buying just one tool …..
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 12, 2015, 12:46:13 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/1391C104-9728-48FD-95DD-7A3738CE26CE_zpsqlduopyv.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D3ADA46F-CF97-4AA7-9D33-75AFA733228C_zpsbolyjjti.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/B24AFFE3-4E60-48C6-A2C9-15421722C0BF_zpsebeowrta.jpg) (http://http)
I then scribed a line about 3/16" below my first bevel line. I also scribed a 1/8" line next to the ramrod channel to leave room for error, and then rasped a bevel between those lines.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/B4C97C5E-2C65-4983-91E2-28DB0658FA4F_zpsgahqatnx.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/485CF709-5FE5-4767-AC78-6C4E9BE90AF8_zpsgkmfnwko.jpg) (http://http)
One side finished.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F409B9C5-8EC2-429B-BDCD-ACA3409F4C66_zps23mtepyl.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/53DF0722-5A07-42DC-BC7A-1EAD3FE1B6F4_zps9guphhg3.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on January 13, 2015, 07:43:22 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 21, 2015, 01:43:05 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/0EEDCB4E-0BFE-40A7-9CC8-43251253F20A_zpsqublwxax.jpg) (http://http)
Sanding down the rough bevels to more of a U-shaped belly.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/EB266492-F1A3-49FB-946D-3746B091E227_zpsdopjpdto.jpg) (http://http)
I have the basic shape I'm looking for.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/9E8DF718-A084-4758-8013-EE0E1A94D29C_zps6djqpkl7.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/524BAF10-CC0C-49FC-A8B8-C8E90A2CD305_zpsn1kq4hxe.jpg) (http://http)
This is how I scribed a line down the side of the forestock for my molding.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/C561A9DF-14B3-4D6F-B1B4-1781FEAB61C5_zpsycfrlzj1.jpg) (http://http)
It worked pretty good. I went back and plunged a chisel into the full length of the line.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/288DE80C-AEFC-4E1C-96F3-5E2801EE1C41_zps2dvpg0kx.jpg) (http://http)
Then I just relieved the wood up to that line.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/746AAEAA-FA0F-4AA4-A508-D399C7ABBBEB_zpskqg3o5rk.jpg) (http://http)
One side finished, on to the other side.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/9DC70DAB-FB49-4EC8-B48F-65EBAF96E33E_zpsgfev2i2r.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/2461CEBA-4C78-4F25-BA2F-32B05545E577_zps77df2mdo.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 27, 2015, 06:35:00 AM
The ramrod channel molding was standing a little proud, so I decided to bring it down a bit.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8AAF5445-E8BC-4F55-A16D-F3B28D806F09_zpsxjzkgscv.jpg) (http://http)
Here is the termination of the ramrod channel molding near the muzzle.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/0BDEE13E-5FD2-45AB-B57A-4083C1CA42DA_zpswpexajgz.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/42AAFF48-18E2-431C-97E4-5E9ED175DC36_zps6ewrnjse.jpg) (http://http)
Here I'm just doodleing some ideas for the termination of the forestock molding near the ramrod entry pipe.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/DD0148A2-3E94-4DD0-B726-5CCE28F1219C_zpswqawigmb.jpg) (http://http)
I'm still undecided if im going to put in an incised molding and/or a flute molding on the lower forestock. I think it looks good as it is, but it would look better if I could get those in correctly,...CORRECTLY being the definitive term. I'd hate to attempt it and mess it up somehow. Captchee, do you happen to have a picture of that instrument you use to sand in the flute along the ramrod channel? I'm having a difficult time picturing in my mind on how to connect the two dowels.
Post by: Captchee on January 27, 2015, 07:14:44 AM
Well in this case your using 2 dowels.. One dowel you screw down so that you can adjust the distance apart .
Again ill take photos when I get home
Post by: Captchee on January 27, 2015, 05:58:29 PM
simple , nothing fancy , just a sanding jig
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/DSC00383_zpsfbxvvcag.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/DSC00384_zpsruwwmmab.jpg)
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 28, 2015, 10:41:02 AM
I just drew on my lock & sideplate panels.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/A7A0C754-D697-42A2-9F47-244ECA7A56F5_zps0zbp8ked.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/25FCE254-BC52-4F0A-81A1-AE5F9A03A51A_zpsxsddx9iv.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: 4-Liberty on January 30, 2015, 10:00:51 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/952CE1D0-61F2-4CDD-95D3-058D3064F2BF_zpsnijnzhzp.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/C841FE76-A7AF-4864-9A5A-F30F21405861_zpsfut6s5xc.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 04, 2015, 03:05:11 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/55272A53-CA9D-4B10-8F6E-9F562E1A1D94_zpscayjmvy7.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/BDDC6CBA-E0C7-4E7C-8EEC-13771CC7D012_zps7sdsew4h.jpg) (http://http)
Inletted the sideplate. Not the prettiest (I have a couple chip-outs), but it'll do.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D4D21498-1FA9-4E42-9BE1-C8FAC09E28AD_zpsm9d5kgqq.jpg) (http://http)
Lock panel is all shaped!
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/634B4F56-73F7-4388-BF21-15418D64C271_zpsnwjf9mlk.jpg) (http://http)
Sideplate is inletted and panel is shaped!
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/39CB56CA-B847-43C5-986C-6B9EFBFA2213_zpsk4aqxiav.jpg) (http://http)
The wrist and panel region took a bit more research than I thought it was going to take. There's a lot of merging going on in that area. The cabinet scrapers worked pretty good in shaping the lock panels. It was a little bit of a slow process because you're only removing a very small amount of wood at a time, but I feel I was less likely to mess it up for that reason. Now I just have to figure out how to sharpen the scrapers.
Now I'm onto shaping the buttstock, but first, I'm going to cut the pins for the barrel, ramrod pipes, and trigger guard to size.
Stay tuned!
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 11, 2015, 12:10:30 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F1742D29-87A7-46A7-A9D9-5A05BDAFF472_zps7aqyvuce.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F2F0DA63-A4E9-4877-A71C-2A91F6FA40E5_zpsj5ayhsql.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/6B088829-B295-4272-8AB8-034928BDD136_zpsrwsducgv.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8DF35BE2-C920-4F7C-BFF5-004308AD65F8_zpsmmlwaeyq.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/BE76AA6F-A6F1-4446-A32D-3622AC19F8F2_zpsqhs9yed5.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/138AC5CC-5EBF-4E17-AEC3-217CA95465BE_zpsudj9yvbi.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 11, 2015, 12:16:15 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/46294EE0-8020-4E55-BB86-D67F9A25DA5F_zps6dosepcw.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/50742D11-50B8-4456-88A7-F2AA4FD281CA_zpsty53tqu2.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/CF52C222-4CB3-49C5-AF36-6979FCBC4572_zpsvojvrka2.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/007132F1-4535-425C-A480-E55DFD76C7AA_zpsbkr0crcb.jpg) (http://http)
Now I just have to work up the nerve to inlet the patchbox...
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 25, 2015, 02:25:46 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/950E42EF-AD2C-42B7-AC8F-A247C57BF5D1_zpsqec3mm0g.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/4E78141D-6807-45F1-AAA5-0A2FF1B367D6_zpslhd2hyaw.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/BF75C77B-A6C2-4257-A750-33B976D1ADE8_zpsidf8mygk.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/46C6380A-5762-4924-A016-52EFC1AAD5F2_zpsnnrl7eah.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/45C40662-2863-4607-B75F-B3A9A6710319_zps2hupjjfr.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E0BF2F1F-5B9B-4BB1-BDB2-DB36948E65A7_zpsqynflcwk.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/BA6028EA-4A0D-4441-9600-1D972A11A803_zps6lwsgayg.jpg) (http://http)
I just need to polish it, and someday engrave it. It's all starting to come together!
Post by: snake eyes on February 25, 2015, 03:54:41 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 26, 2015, 06:26:12 AM
Well, I'm to the point where I need to finally start thinking about finishing the stock. The problem is that I've never finished a stock before, so I have a few questions.
First question; how fine of a grit of sandpaper do I need to sand it down to?
Second question; I see there at gun stock waxes, gun stock sealers, and gun stock finishes, so I'm not exactly sure of which of these I need to use to get a traditional finish on a LMF Lancaster Maple stained semi-fancy maple stock? My assumption is that the wax creates a high-gloss shine, the sealer fills the pores of a more porous wood like walnut, and the finish adds a bit of a protective layer against the elements and gives it a little shine. Am I correct?
My ultimate goal is to have a finished stock similar to this..
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F74FCB42-947C-43EB-81EB-029C1341579D_zpsetruvdde.jpg) (http://http)
Will the LMF Lancaster Maple and LMF Gun Stock Finish achieve this?
Post by: Captchee on February 26, 2015, 08:24:02 AM
Quote
First question; how fine of a grit of sandpaper do I need to sand it down to?
The answer to this IMO really depends on the gun one is working on . Normally I sand to around 250-300..
After that you need to whisker. This means you dampen the wood so as to raise the grain . Let it dry and sand dine sand again then whisker again . This you need to repeat until the wood grain no longer raises when you wet it .
I then Burnish the stock using a burnishing tool which is simply nothing more then a piece highly polished steel , Bone , Stone or even a harder wood ..
What this does is compress and polish . Also , you know how some makers , show guns with very little end grain showing around their carving or after the gun is finished with oil , there is no rough look around the carvings . A good burnish helps produce that look by compressing the grain you can get into to whisker .
Quote
Second question; I see there at gun stock waxes, gun stock sealers, and gun stock finishes, so I'm not exactly sure of which of these I need to use to get a traditional finish on a LMF Lancaster Maple stained semi-fancy maple stock? My assumption is that the wax creates a high-gloss shine, the sealer fills the pores of a more porous wood like walnut, and the finish adds a bit of a protective layer against the elements and gives it a little shine. Am I correct?
There are I would bet thousands of ways to finish a gun stocks. Which one chooses to use can depend on the gun , grade of gun ………. Doing a proper hand rubbed finish on say a presentation grade shotgun , is a lot different then doing a basic oil or wax finish on a long rifle .
Myself with maple I stain with forties. Then lay up a couple wet coats of boiled linseed . that’s followed with a couple coats of Tung , when dry that’s knocked down and the stock is waxed with an acrylic wax.
Then you also have the Tru-oil . Which can produce a very nice finish. Imo it needs to be knocked back so as to not look like plastic , but that’s preference
Sealers produce a base seal for the wood sealing end grain and such . Depending on the maker , they may not seal the grain “walnut “ without many, many coats , that’s a sealer/ filler
These for the most part are put on after the stock is stained .
Then you have your finish which may consist of different oils , wax’s lacquers………. That goes on top of your sealer .
I would not worry to much about a wax or oil finish that you maybe thinking of using . If they turn out to shinny , they can be simply dulled back with steel wool or a rubbing with burlap
The thing to remember , and I have said this many times through your build .
Don’t rush , take your time .
Same goes for this finishing . Let things dry before you move on to the next step . You wont regret it
Post by: Eric Krewson on February 26, 2015, 10:03:35 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/smokerings004_zps6f0530ee.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: 4-Liberty on February 27, 2015, 05:46:10 AM
Is the carving done after sanding but before whiskering?
What is meant by "knocked down" when referring to after applying the tru oil and tung oil, and before waxing?
Post by: Captchee on February 27, 2015, 08:08:50 AM
I have had it flash rust iron . However even then it was do to me simply sloping a lot of fortis on.
Yes carving is done after sanding . As far as before or after whiskering , that’s up to you . Myself I have done it both ways but on long rifles , I normally whisker then carve. But I also have the stock clamped on my table , so im not real worried about damage being caused to other areas of the stock . Which would then need to be re sanded , thus re whisker
Knock down , Knock back , Bring back ….. All refer to using fine sanding paper , , steel wool , stone or a course material like burlap or denim to level a finish or take the high shine from a finish
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 03, 2015, 03:21:48 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/CCAB7C9D-4919-43C7-864F-1CFC42FF0B99_zpsi7jip8ck.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/934EF0CD-D097-4665-84E8-7DABA2392398_zpswmq6u7cn.jpg) (http://http)
Time to sand things down.
Post by: gunmaker on March 03, 2015, 08:04:33 PM
Post by: Captchee on March 03, 2015, 08:47:08 PM
. i didnt even see that. but i guess if thats the way he wants it , there would be no reason it couldnt be done that way
Post by: gunmaker on March 03, 2015, 09:11:39 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 04, 2015, 01:26:19 AM
I'll probably put in a push button release at a later date and drill the rest of it out, but for now, she closes good and solid.
So any suggestions for browning agents? I'm loading up my shopping cart at Track of the Wolf, getting ready to make an order.
Post by: Captchee on March 04, 2015, 07:48:45 AM
I would have to say that commonly it would have been under the final . But if that’s how you want it , 2 thumbs up . Works and that’s whats important
Same goes for the release buttons . There are many originals that have all the workings exposed . If you go over to the ALRF you will see that many folks do it that way . Myself I don’t . I don’t want the channels exposed to all manor of things being able to fall down in them .
Post by: gunmaker on March 04, 2015, 11:30:31 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 10, 2015, 05:57:59 AM
I just did a basic incised line running along the bottom of the buttstock. I did this by taking a ruler and scribing a line along the bottom. I then carefully plunged in a wide flat chisel along that line. That gave me a little straight grove to work with. I then took a small 3-cornerd file (the tip didn't have any teeth) and dragged it in that grove to widen it a bit, then came back with a v-shaped riffler file and finished it off.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3006547D-B7AA-4B54-BD32-B1669CE5C1CC_zpsdm56lz36.jpg) (http://http)
As you can see here, I'm just starting with the relief process on the ramrod entry carving.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/F4F7F9BA-0A26-40AD-8887-4D767E50F1AD_zpssrntsxof.jpg) (http://http)
Just gotta take er slow and steady...
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 10, 2015, 01:06:26 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3626120B-9402-4A1E-86AB-4DA490037B42_zps9i1sagul.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/DD4B9200-7A13-4E7B-AD98-094ECAAF59BA_zpsrz36mhdx.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: snake eyes on March 11, 2015, 01:56:22 PM
snake-eyes
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 13, 2015, 01:40:02 AM
Post by: Captchee on March 13, 2015, 07:47:35 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 18, 2015, 06:47:36 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D0BEA9AA-03A7-41DB-8259-DDCD2D1ED048_zpstqiwmpon.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3222CDCD-5D7C-4813-BBD7-12C8B2FB1BE8_zpsg1mzrraq.jpg) (http://http)
Onto the nose of the comb!
Post by: Captchee on March 18, 2015, 07:45:18 AM
if i may , i would spend alittle more time cleaning up the back ground . what you see in the shadows of your photo is often what you see in the finish
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 18, 2015, 09:34:37 AM
Post by: snake eyes on March 18, 2015, 02:56:46 PM
I know most others have probably seen the beaver tail touch,but I have not.I like it
a lot. :shake [/color]
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 20, 2015, 09:04:25 AM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/B4069AA7-9F69-4F77-AAA5-3DD134D24446_zpskojeozn9.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/CE5C393C-8FC6-4A4C-A3FD-85C0F5ED71F7_zpscf2kg9jv.jpg) (http://http)
Now onto the dreaded rear of the cheekpiece carving!
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 27, 2015, 12:53:37 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/CA099BDE-1A4C-4B2E-9159-6D2EBD9C05A1_zps2pxnikto.jpg) (http://http)
Now onto the whiskering.
Post by: rollingb on March 27, 2015, 01:58:34 PM
Post by: snake eyes on March 27, 2015, 03:51:55 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 28, 2015, 12:41:12 AM
Post by: Captchee on March 28, 2015, 08:34:00 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 31, 2015, 03:27:34 AM
Also, ideally I would like the color of the stock to be very similar to the photo below. Will I be able to achieve this with AF alone, or will I need to order a stain?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8B22DE47-D40A-43BF-8A30-2E448CCE5570_zps4ymj5zcs.jpg) (http://http)
Thanks, again, for everyone's feedback!
Post by: Captchee on March 31, 2015, 08:01:10 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on March 31, 2015, 09:03:41 AM
Also will I need to deactivate the acid once I've achieved it?
Post by: Captchee on March 31, 2015, 11:12:50 AM
So your going to have to judge the color as you blanch the wood . At the same time , keep in mind that your oil is also going to darken the over all color some .
As to if you need to neutralize or not . Again this depends on what fortis you use .
The original fortis yep you have to . But modern fortis that for the most part offered today , there isn’t really a need IMO
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 02, 2015, 05:22:28 AM
Stay Tuned!
Post by: Captchee on April 02, 2015, 05:50:54 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 02, 2015, 06:16:14 AM
I guess what I'm looking for is a shade anywhere between these two stocks pictured below.
I'm more concerned with it finishing too light than finishing too dark. If I did add a coat of LMF Walnut stain, do you think it would turn out more like the top stock?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D7456F59-664F-4BF8-AEE4-7836B3F9F98F_zpslozzdust.jpg) (http://http)
Sorry for all of these questions. This is my first time finishing a stock, so after all of the hours I have put into this rifle, I'd hate to screw it up in the final stages.
Post by: Hank in WV on April 02, 2015, 05:09:00 PM
Post by: Captchee on April 02, 2015, 08:15:17 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 07, 2015, 03:27:07 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/50125260-5B72-4125-8859-93DAB913A489_zpspvek4nnz.jpg) (http://http)
I couldn't be more pleased with the outcome!
Post by: snake eyes on April 07, 2015, 07:40:55 PM
VERY NICE! You have every right to be proud. :shake [/color]
Post by: Captchee on April 07, 2015, 08:00:39 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 09, 2015, 09:00:49 AM
Well, I just applied my fourth coat of Tru-Oil, so how do I know when enough is enough?
Post by: rollingb on April 09, 2015, 10:20:35 AM
Quote from: "4-Liberty"
Two coats of Aqua-Fortis, one coat of LMF walnut stain, two coats of Tru-Oil, steel wooled and wiped with an old t-shirt between each coat. Few more coats of tru-oil to go.
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/50125260-5B72-4125-8859-93DAB913A489_zpspvek4nnz.jpg) (http://http)
I couldn't be more pleased with the outcome!
:rt th
Post by: Hanshi on April 09, 2015, 03:46:08 PM
Post by: Captchee on April 09, 2015, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: "4-Liberty"
Thanks gents!
Well, I just applied my fourth coat of Tru-Oil, so how do I know when enough is enough?
when it meets your liking
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 10, 2015, 12:43:28 AM
Next I'm onto the barrel. I have the entire barrel draw-filed and draw-sanded down to 320 grit. I have yet to install the sights, but I was wondering if I can brown the barrel with the sights installed, or does it not matter?
Do I sand the lock with 320 grit before browning?
Also, I don't want the lock to perfectly match the browning on the barrel, in fact, I'd like it to be more of a "tarnished" dark-gray color. I've read that this can be obtained by browning the lock and then boil it once the browning is dried and rusted. Is this correct?
Post by: Captchee on April 10, 2015, 09:05:29 AM
Oils like linseed can take more . White tung I normally do 7-10 coats , not because that’s whats needed to seal the stock . Its more to create the finish im wanting .
As to your barrel .I would recommend installing the sights first . Then remove them and brown the barrel . Then replace the sight .
If you try and install after you have browned the barrel you take a good chance of messing up the browning while cutting the dovetails .
With your lock . If your going to grey the lock , then you will need to file and sand the outside of the lock plate . If you Brown , then boil , you will convert the red iron oxide to black iron oxide. In other words if the whole lock plate is brown . When you boil it , the whole lock plate will turn black . If you card the rust back to only a very light covering . You will then have a light covering of black in the areas you left the brown rust .
If your wanting the French grey or a more grey used look I would recommend a different process .
a) you can use a cold blue . Blue the plate , then using steal wool , rubb the blue back tell you get the grey your looking for
b) Navel Jelly spread on the plate will give a grey discoloration. It can be used by itself or to remove the cold blue
c) a strong vinegar solution like ,white vinegar , yellow mustard , let on the lock , will form what call stain rust , which will stain the metal into a pattern or grey patina of sorts
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 10, 2015, 10:07:40 AM
This is the sight I have:
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/E050CE0E-85C0-4C23-A403-89AEFA4B3A53_zpsikh668wx.jpg) (http://http)
I really like the color of the lock pictured below. Which of the processes that you described do you think would come closest to that that look?
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3BF46156-12B5-408F-8CC2-FA9B7FA2B8CD_zpsabtmtfz0.jpg) (http://http)
Post by: Captchee on April 10, 2015, 10:27:23 AM
that lock , from what i can tell is probably more of a rust black thats been carded back vs a dark grey
Post by: prairie dog on April 10, 2015, 10:59:02 AM
First, thanks for keeping this post going.
I am simply amazed by your skills and talents. You are doing impressive work and on your first build. That rifle is going to be a thing of beauty.
Steve
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 11, 2015, 09:29:59 AM
I assume the lock is browned disassembled by its individual parts, is this correct? Also, is the frizzen spring browned, or left as is?
Post by: Captchee on April 11, 2015, 09:44:33 AM
don’t brown the inside parts . Myself I never brown a spring .
Depending on what type of browning process your doing you may want to rubb down the inside of the lock plate and face of frizzen with alittle wax so as to keep those areas from rusting. If your using a browning solution without a damp box then that process may not be necessary. If you get any on those areas you can just rub it off with fine emery paper .
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 11, 2015, 09:54:15 AM
Post by: Jackp on April 25, 2015, 10:34:39 PM
I am in the process of building a .54 cal Dickert. I've learned a lot from all of you here. I hate to see anyone make mistakes, but we all learn from them. It's a lot better to learn by seeing someone else mess up.
. Thanks for being man enough to show yours failures along with your success .Great job and thank again.
Jack
Post by: 4-Liberty on April 26, 2015, 07:26:57 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on May 03, 2015, 07:28:19 AM
Post by: Captchee on May 03, 2015, 09:53:24 AM
So what I would suggest is to what the rust build . If it’s a nice fine rust don’t be afraid to do a 2nd rusting between boils . If its building a heavy thick scale rust , I would be boiling , rusting and light carding between each coat
Post by: 4-Liberty on May 04, 2015, 01:57:24 PM
Also, when you say "carding," I assume that means steel wooling the surface rust off. Is this correct?
Post by: Captchee on May 04, 2015, 08:21:11 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on June 23, 2015, 01:20:47 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/4945BFDE-A8F6-4191-AF2D-F3EB9D258928_zpshs3ho1xi.jpg) (http://http)
The surface feels pretty rough, is that normal?
Also, what do I do with the metal parts? The directions say to put a turtle car wax on and leave sit for 3 weeks. Do I really have to wait three weeks before I can shoot it?
Post by: Captchee on June 23, 2015, 06:00:57 PM
You can use wax . Myself I use oil . Motor oil works well . Soak it down real good you want it to stay wet for at least 24 hours . Wipe it back . Then re coat it . The heavy scale should tone back to a smooth surface. After the first 24 hours , you can put the barrel back in and go out and shoot it
Post by: 4-Liberty on June 24, 2015, 12:40:51 AM
Post by: Captchee on June 24, 2015, 07:44:04 AM
Post by: 4-Liberty on June 25, 2015, 03:42:13 PM
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/47E2C089-497F-4C7B-B181-45D715C4D995_zpswynqsvs7.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8CD00343-E167-431F-8EC3-2A23CC39C873_zpsmv1xrpid.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/9C11F2FB-07BF-42E1-BA41-E11B0E7ADF4F_zpsbbdryuvq.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/D90D7042-A79D-4854-89F6-1959C1E9E5A8_zps03na4xei.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/59EAC4B3-92C9-4288-BED8-43E7C13CEDB3_zps24jvhzb6.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/8DF184F2-14C3-4266-91D6-4CBB9833691B_zps30hb6mf7.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/A25A6936-F130-4881-BBBF-134C72EE3E31_zpsueazj4gz.jpg) (http://http)
(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/ryano81/Mobile%20Uploads/3F822763-42A6-4060-B161-3C337C4707E2_zpsyhflby0r.jpg) (http://http)
I'd like to thank everyone who has helped me along the way, especially Captchee! Without you all, I would have never had the courage to continue forward with my build.
But, I do have one final question. I have yet to complete the ramrod (the one in the photo is an extra one I had laying around), and I like the look of the spiral stripped rod. How is this look accomplished, and how is the rod finished?
Post by: Captchee on June 25, 2015, 05:17:32 PM
Keep the barrel oiled heavy . The rusting will level and smooth out . Its still to dry .
To stripe the RR you can just sand it , then run painters tape around it in a spiral. Apply your stain , let dry , remove the tape and then oil . The result will give you a striped rod
Post by: prairie dog on June 26, 2015, 09:41:03 AM
Post by: Hanshi on June 26, 2015, 12:01:19 PM
Post by: MacRob46 on August 29, 2015, 08:48:17 AM