Post by: Stormrider51 on April 16, 2014, 01:12:47 PM
John
Post by: greggholmes on April 16, 2014, 07:29:48 PM
Post by: greggholmes on April 16, 2014, 07:33:22 PM
i use .735 RB put the ball on the end of the dowel and wrap the paper around and glue it with a glue stick.
glue the paper over the ball and pull it off of the dowel. i used 80 grains of 2f then fold over the end and glue it down with the glue stick.
Ill post some pics tonight of the ones i have made up.
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 16, 2014, 08:53:35 PM
John
Post by: Bigsmoke on April 16, 2014, 09:07:57 PM
I would think that if you are not thinking about using a bayonette on it, you could file it down, or I have even seen a discrete bead mounted on top of the sight. You might want to see how it shoots first before you do anything. If it is high, adding that bead could be a good idea.
Have fun with it.
John
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 16, 2014, 09:28:29 PM
That would make filing the sight down easier if that proves necessary.
John
Post by: Bigsmoke on April 16, 2014, 10:33:04 PM
And look on the bright side of things, if you ever did decide that a bayonette would be a good thing to have, there is always plug bayonettes.
I would still think about getting some sighting shots off, though. If you do have to add some height to the front sight, you might weld a bead on top then clean the whole thing up with a couple of passes through the mill.
By the way, I cannot recall anyone ever telling me I was too PC/HC myself. Like you, far from it.
John
Post by: greggholmes on April 16, 2014, 11:13:32 PM
Post by: greggholmes on April 16, 2014, 11:19:52 PM
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 17, 2014, 01:22:31 AM
John
Post by: greggholmes on April 17, 2014, 01:46:07 AM
Post by: greggholmes on April 18, 2014, 05:37:03 PM
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tPnSiqwz7i8/U1D47eIDGdI/AAAAAAAAINE/MCULr036NeA/w452-h804-no/20140418_030501.jpg)
my cartridge .735 round ball 80grns of 2f then coated the ball with a mix of bees wax olive oil and just for fun a little powdered graphite.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_2YgyuoLI30/U1D5WlmssQI/AAAAAAAAINc/gcEhi2MvUJg/w452-h804-no/20140418_030213.jpg)
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 18, 2014, 06:11:54 PM
John
Post by: TallTexan on April 22, 2014, 11:33:58 PM
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 23, 2014, 07:44:43 AM
Post by: greggholmes on April 23, 2014, 08:46:02 AM
Post by: greggholmes on April 23, 2014, 08:46:23 AM
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 23, 2014, 10:08:28 AM
My initial impressions were good. The inletting wasn't as tight in a few places as I'd have liked but that tends to be true of many factory made muzzleloaders. I liked the fact that there were no mold lines visible. I was holding something made the way the Bess was in her day, forged and filed. Overall polish was good and the brass pieces didn't show any sand casting roughness. The vent is in the correct "sunset position" in relation to the pan. Having noted Greg's statement that the breech plug extends too far forward on his gun I used a small punch to probe the vent. The plug on this one seems to end just behind the vent.
One of the things I wanted to know concerned the diameter of the bore. I miked the muzzle and got a reading of .755. Pretty much dead on specs. I used my longest down-hole gauge to get a reading about 3" down the bore. Still .755. So much for precision measurements. Now I had to go primitive. I ran a tight patch on a jag down the bore and then began to extract it slowly while feeling for loose places. I do this on the way out because the patch bunches up and becomes tighter. I'm happy to say that there were none. While I can't guarantee that the bore is exactly .755 all the way down it at least doesn't have any obvious wide spots.
Shouldering the gun gave me a reminder that the British did not encourage aimed fire. I have a fairly wide face and try as I might I couldn't get my eye down low enough to not have an eagle's view of the top of the barrel. This may be interesting when it comes time to shoot. On the other hand, that bayonet lug/front sight doesn't look all that wide perched way out there. I did note that the lug is brazed on with yellow brazing metal visible all the way around.
Did I mention that Bess is a BIG girl? There's nothing petite or delicate looking on her. She looks every inch a military musket.
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 23, 2014, 10:39:35 AM
In their defense, MTV says in the manual that comes with the gun that the shooter should "Smoothly but sharply, pull the trigger rearwards". That's a bit of an understatement. I don't know what the weight of the trigger pull is because it is completely off the scale of my trigger gauge. Way off. Not only is it extremely hard, once the sear releases it will often fall into the half-cock notch. The rest of the time the cock will fail to push the frizzen fully forward. I had originally installed the flint using leather to hold it in the jaws of the cock. I pounded a lead ball out flat and then shaped it to replace the leather. My thought was that the additional mass might overcome the inertia of the frizzen. No dice. I had everything adjusted correctly in terms of the flint to frizzen relationship. I was getting good sparks but the cock would stop about 3/4 of the way down the face of the frizzen. I was also feeling like I had sprained my finger from yanking on the trigger. Problems like these are often as simple as wood inside the lock mortise rubbing and binding on lock parts. The lock works fine outside the gun but fails when installed. It was time to remove the lock.
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 23, 2014, 11:08:45 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/jhansen1951/Besslock.jpg)
There may also be an issue with the clearance between the sear and the tumbler. The half-cock notch does not have a fly in it to prevent the sear from entering. So what this lock needs is tuning.
At this point I'm going to remind everyone that my original intent was to evaluate the accuracy potential of the Bess from a hunter's point of view. Given that MVT says each gun is bench checked for function prior to shipping, I really didn't expect to run into these problems. So now I have a choice to make. MVT has an excellent guarantee. I can return the entire gun for a refund or I can send the lock back and I'm confident Peter Plunkett will tune it and send it back to me. On the other hand, I began working on muzzleloaders in my dad's shop when I was a kid and I'm now approaching 63 years of age. I have all the necessary tools including spring vise. I'm confident of my ability to fix this. And if I do I will have voided the warranty. I'm going to think about this for a while.
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 23, 2014, 03:44:12 PM
Post by: TallTexan on April 23, 2014, 05:27:52 PM
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 23, 2014, 08:40:24 PM
Okay, at this point I'm ready to do some shooting. I do feel that I should point out that the Bess sent to me may not be an average example. The next one on the rack could have been fully functional from the start. I'll also say that this one could have worked had I been happy to point and yank the dickens out of the trigger but that is not my intent. I want to see what this girl will do as a hunting gun. After thinking about it, the Bess was better out of the box than some of the Spanish and Italian muzzleloaders I saw back in the 1970's. The springs in the Bess are properly tempered and so is the frizzen. That's more than I can say for some of the CVA products I tangles with back in the day. I do not advocate anyone attempting to fix or modify any firearm unless you are an experienced and adequately equipped gunsmith. MVT has an excellent warranty. Use it.
Onward...
Post by: 1Poet on April 25, 2014, 03:33:34 PM
Post by: 1Poet on April 25, 2014, 03:34:17 PM
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 25, 2014, 07:59:34 PM
Storm
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 25, 2014, 10:16:00 PM
Civilization has been crowding me out here until I have only one direction I can safely shoot. I used a tape measure and found that my maximum range was 21 yards. That was fine because I didn't have a clue of where the balls were going to fly. I considered going to 10 yards as a precaution but given that I'm shooting slightly downhill into a pile of fairly thick limbs backed by a dirt berm I felt 21 yards was safe.
My first attempts were with the traditional paper cartridges. I had received a sales flyer from Dixie Gun Works along with the tow I ordered so I used the newsprint to make the cartridges. I swabbed the bore with dry patches to remove any residual oil, then I loaded the first shot. I was feeling very British as I tore the end of the cartridge with my teeth. I broke with tradition in that I did not prime the pan before loading. Ain't happening. I dumped the entire 75 grains down the bore, and shoved the paper wrapped ball after it. The rammer smoothly pushed the ball down to meet the powder. Then I primed the pan with FFFFg and closed the frizzen. I leaned the gun up against a tree to put on my ear muffs and picked Bess up for our first shot. In being pointed upward most of the powder had escaped from the pan. Let's just say that the fit of the pan to the frizzen isn't the best. So our first dance ended with the "Clack" of the flint hitting the frizzen and a deafening silence. I saw what had happened and reprimed the pan being careful to keep the gun more or less level. That time I was rewarded with a definite "BOOM". My wife, who was inside a well insulated metal building about 30 yards away, later told me "Bess has a BIG voice!" Apparently our Rottweiler was so startled that he jumped up barking at the sound.
The first shot was the lowest and rightmost in the photo. It was fired from a clean bore and as such shots often do it landed a distance away from the main or "dirty bore" group. I should have fired a fouling shot. I wiped the bore with a patch moistened with the Ballistol solution. One pass down and back out. I wiped the pan clean with the same patch and then wiped the flint and frizzen with a dry rag. I repeated this for four more shots. The results were about what I expected given that the ball had a lot of room to careen around inside the barrel on the way up the bore.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/jhansen1951/Besspaperctg.jpg)
Not anything to write home about but sufficient to take down a deer or hog at that range. This is especially true if we don't count that first shot. The shots were consistently to the left but the gun does not have a rear sight. This is a problem I caused, not the gun.
Storm
Post by: greggholmes on April 25, 2014, 10:19:22 PM
Post by: TallTexan on April 25, 2014, 10:24:28 PM
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 25, 2014, 10:39:15 PM
I loaded and fired the first shot. Nice big hole exactly where it should be on elevation but again to the left. As I said, the windage thing is the shooters fault. I was trying to use the screw in the barrel tang in my lower peripheral vision as a sort of rear sight. At least I was consistent. I wiped and reloaded. When the smoke cleared from the second shot I found myself wondering where the ball went. I wiped the bore and set it aside while I walked down toward the target. It was soon obvious what had happened. The second ball passed almost through the hole left by the first. Now I'm really interested! The third ball opened the hole a little bigger and formed a cloverleaf. Then the wind gusts increased in frequency and were strong enough to push me around as I tried to sight. The next shot went when a gust hit and was far to the right. I decided to call that as a flyer. I know I moved as the shot went off. The next shot went where the first three were. I'm starting to smile. The next shot also coincided with a strong wind gust so I discounted it and loaded again. The last shot opened the existing hole a little more. Five shots into just over an inch center-to-center. Now that's a meat-getter! All I have to do is bring those shots to the right.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/jhansen1951/Bessprb2.jpg)
At that point I had to call it a day. I had a gun to clean and then I needed to build a fire and grill a steak for dinner. I'll do the testing with tow on Monday. I avoid shooting out here on weekends because more neighbors are home. For now let me say that Bess is sort of like the not-so-attractive girl who grows on you. I'm sure seeing her in a different light tonight.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/jhansen1951/Bess.jpg)
Storm
Post by: TallTexan on April 26, 2014, 01:10:22 AM
Post by: Roaddog on April 26, 2014, 07:04:52 AM
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 28, 2014, 01:15:44 PM
Storm
Post by: TallTexan on April 28, 2014, 02:19:47 PM
Post by: gunmaker on April 29, 2014, 11:54:23 AM
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 29, 2014, 12:06:36 PM
Tom...I did an accuracy evaluation on that 20 Bore you sold me. PRB accuracy on it was very good as well and I didn't have to do an extensive tuning of the lock!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/jhansen1951/tow610.jpg)
I was still getting an occasional failure to kick the frizzen back on the Bess. I noticed that the frizzen spring was leaving drag marks on the lock plate so I did a little judicious filing on the spring to get clearance. Now the lock seems to be 100%.
Storm
Post by: Stormrider51 on April 30, 2014, 04:39:57 PM
I dry patched the bore to remove excess oil and fired a fouling charge. I wiped the bore using a patch dampened with the 7:1 water/Ballistol solution. There's no easy way to be sure I'm getting the same amount of tow each time so I went for eyeballing it. Again, I was using a 75 gr FFg powder charge. My sequence was load, fire, wipe with damp patch, and repeat.
Some time ago I evaluated a 20 bore smoothie for accuracy. In that test using tow gave groups almost as good as a PRB. I was really curious to see if this held true with the Bess. I fired five shots and the result is shown in the photo. Once again, PRB wins but not by a great deal. I wouldn't hesitate to use either one for hunting at this range. With more testing I may be extending that range.
Here are my final thoughts on this Made in India Bess. I actually got more gun than I expected for $525 plus shipping. It's accuracy potential is great. I would advise potential buyers to accept from the outset that you may have some lock tuning to do or have done. However you will NOT have to harden the frizzen which is common on some factory guns. Remember, MVTC has an excellent warranty.
At this time I have the Bess listed on the Trade Blanket as for sale or trade. I'm looking for a 20 gauge in trade and I won't turn my nose up at it if you bought it from MVTC. If the Bess sells I intend to buy one of their Fusil deChasse guns. My reason is simple. A 20 uses less lead than a 12. I also will not be disappointed if Bess remains here with me. She is a great girl.
Storm