Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Craftsmanship => Hawks and Knives => Topic started by: Uncle Russ on May 08, 2014, 01:59:00 PM

Title: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 08, 2014, 01:59:00 PM: To start with I will personally say I am a lover of knives....all knives!
Big, small, in between, they are all great tools.
Fact of the matter is there are several of us, right here on this forum, that hold charter memberships in "Knifeaholics"...we never attend meetings, but each of us possesses all the essential signs of pure raw addiction.

I did say I love "all knives", but I'll refine that just a wee bit and say I have always held a strong preference for a blade in the 4.0 inch to 4.5 inch range for my personal ever day, day-in, day-out use.
My own personal experience tells me I get along much better with this size blade than any of the other choices I have and, like many of you, I do have a lot of choices.

Having said all that, I now have to say that I read something today, regarding the larger knives, that I will share with you below.
This one single article has caused me to look at things just a little bit differently, in a new light you might say.
Not that it will ever change my mind regarding my preference for the smaller blade, but I just might start carrying two knives, on the belt, when I'm in the field....as silly as that may sound.

Take a look at this and see what you think.
I know many already prefer the larger knifes, but if you fall in that same category as myself along with a few others I know, then tell me what you think.

What Big Survival Knives Are For And How To Use One (http://indefinitelywild.gizmodo.com/what-big-survival-knives-are-for-and-how-to-use-one-1572811597/+kcampbelldollaghan?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)

([size=85]It's probably best if you ignore some of the photography in the link as it mostly depicts a false image of how our group actually sees BIG knives, just concentrate on what the author has to say about large survival knives before you make your decision.[/size])

Uncle Russ...
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 08, 2014, 04:03:27 PM: I carry a fixed fairly big knife. It's a Buck 119. 10" overall with a 6" blade. Clip point in the style of a bowie.

It's my backup for bear hunting, or whatever might need a blade stuck in it.

(http://www.knifehog.com/images/product/large/1218_1_.jpg)
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 08, 2014, 07:26:42 PM: Don't like it Russ?

It's one of Buck's classic knife being made for the last 47 years. I have the other classic too. The 110 folder, but I like the 119 better. I call it my bear knife.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 08, 2014, 08:03:02 PM: Yes Pete, I do like it. :shock:
Still yet, thinking back, I suddenly realize they've been around a long long time.

I'll have to look but I think I may have an old 110 folding knife.
Is that the one with the little insignia on the side of a hammer hitting a knife to cut a bolt?
(After writing this I had to go look...actually the folder I described is a 301 Stockman and that is likely the oldest Buck Knife I have....maybe 30 / 40 years old, I can't remember, but it has been a looong time....we have traveled many a mile together...LOL)
Here is a link to that same knife...
301BKS Buck Knives Stockman, Pocket Knife, 420HC Steel Blades| Buck Knife Direct (http://www.buck-knife-direct.com/buck-stockman-pocket-knife-three-420hc-steel-blades-p-5259.html?osCsid=b6e4131d2e15c768c08d6f0cfaa3768f)

Buck Knives are good knives.
Uncle Henry, Schrade, Boker, Puma, Case, along with many others, they are all good knives with personal preferences of heft, balance, feel, and functionality being the only really big difference.

Green River "Butcher" knives are still the preferred knife of many Buckskinners and all for good reason, they are simply hard to beat!
I own a couple, but now I think I just might need a really big Butcher Knife.....we'll see.

Uncle Russ...
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 08, 2014, 08:11:09 PM: I've heard others say Buck's are hard to sharpen. I don't seem to have that problem, but you say you don't either anymore. I like to keep a razor edge all the time, so maybe that's why I don't have a problem. I never really let it get dull. I use the diamond med stone (750) that Buck sells to touch it up. It just takes a few passes, and it's good to go.

Buck is a pretty old company. The first Buck knife was produced in 1902 according to their web site.

That's even older than me.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Uncle Russ on May 08, 2014, 09:09:14 PM: 1902...Wow, that is much older than I would have thought.

I don't know this to be a fact, "but I have heard"....there we go again, I "heard" but I have no provenance!
Still yet, I have "heard", or read, that the steel in Buck knives is of a higher carbon content than that found in a regular knife. That being the very reason their blades will break much easier than on, say, a Case or a Schrade.
The knife I showed you has a lower carbon rating, for its time, and was supposed to not break when chopping or prying, or any of those other things you shouldn't be using a knife for.
A Case is much easier to sharpen, all things being equal, and that is because of their somewhat lower carbon content....but they will dull easier requiring more frequent sharpening than the Buck.
My own experience says a Buck is harder to sharpen and harder to dull. However, once sharp, that razor edge will last forever, or so it seems.

I feel sure some of our custom knife builders will be along shortly and fill in all the blanks I left on where my thoughts of how things are, and that is just as it should be.

Uncle Russ...
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 08, 2014, 09:24:44 PM: Buck uses 420HC stainless steel on most of their knives except the high priced ones. It's a common steel used now by a lot of companies. The difference is how Buck tempers it. They have some some special process that makes it pretty hard.

Buck will tell that their knives are made to cut, and not chop, pry etc. So, it's not the greatest for a camp knife, but good for cutting stuff.

I just want it to slice up a bear if my PRB fails me.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: greyhunter on May 09, 2014, 07:37:55 AM: Good read Russ! Have an old K bar, I'm partial to, really like the old German made, stag handled Solengin knives. When I was a lad, a proper Pa. deer hunter wore plaid Woolrich coat and pants, carried a Winchester thuty thuty or Marlin thuty five, and a stag handled Solengin hunting knife. BTW Despite making an outstanding knife, the Solengin came in the cheapest leather sheath ever made. I agree with the article, sawtooth backs and serrated edges are worthless on a knife. Recently bought a Cold Steel Gladius machete. Now this is a knife!!!
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 09, 2014, 10:23:53 AM: Lad?? My Woolrich coat is 60 years old, and I still wear it hunting.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: R.M. on May 09, 2014, 10:58:05 AM: I'm a small blade type of guy. I do carry a 6' in the field, but my go to knife is a 3" Uncle Henry folder. I just seem to have better control with the shorter blade.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 09, 2014, 11:08:04 AM: Yeah, my game skinner is 3 1/2", but I wouldn't want to fight off a bear with it.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Buzzard on May 09, 2014, 04:57:19 PM: Sorry Russ, but was very little in that article that would lead me to change my thinking about my hunting/woods knives. 4-5" fixed blades. It reads like a guy i once bought a used pickup truck from. I'd have taken a blade to him if i coulda found him later. I can break bigger tree limbs over my knee than he could ever hope to chop up with his mega chopper, and a good sized rock will always drive a tent stake faster than that thing. As for bears, if it gets that close to ya, ya might as well stab yourself and save the pain and agony!!! Not to mention the hospital bill!!!!!!!! P.S. In actual use, the shorter blades make better fighting tools due to the "close quarters" nature of the situation.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 09, 2014, 05:13:17 PM: I'm not the type to give up, and stab myself. The bear will probably win, but it's not getting me without knowing it was in a fight.

The Buck 119 is only 7oz. I can swing it almost as fast as an empty hand.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: huntinguy on May 09, 2014, 08:55:40 PM: Quote from: "R.M."
I do carry a 6' in the field

Dang, that is a big knife.... Claymore????? Iffin I was the bear I would run from that.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 09, 2014, 09:07:25 PM: I was going to bust him on that, but I figure i'd let someone else have the fun.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: R.M. on May 09, 2014, 10:08:17 PM: Quote from: "huntinguy"
Quote from: "R.M."
I do carry a 6' in the field

Dang, that is a big knife.... Claymore????? Iffin I was the bear I would run from that.

Fat fingers, doncha no
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Roaddog on May 10, 2014, 06:44:29 AM: I like just abought all knives big and small. That said when I'm feald dressing game I reach for o'l uncal Buck my folding knife.it's just a buck folding knife that has been on my hip from 1970.We have gut and skun a lot of deer ad squrriles together.I still want one of Longhunters buffalo kives though.Evor since Ron showed us That big o'l blade it's been calling to me.

PS. Thanks Russ that was a good read.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Stormrider51 on May 10, 2014, 11:16:33 AM: I guess it depends on the job at hand. My favorite general use knife is the one in the photo. It's a tad over 6" total with a 3" blade. I designed it and the late Bud Terral made it. I have average sized hands and the handle portion is large enough for me to get a grip on with everything but my little finger but short enough that it isn't poking me in the side when sitting in a vehicle.

Storm
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: biliff on May 10, 2014, 12:54:52 PM: I've been using a DH Russell with a 3 3/4" blade for about 40 years now. Its the only one I've never lost, which says something about how much I like it. Two or three years ago I decided to use my 7" scalper blade dressing out a deer. It worked, but was a bit cumbersome. Didn't get attacked by grizzlies or bands of marauders so it was not used to its full potential.

As for the article I guess it depends on how hard you want to work at things to make one tool do it all.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: mario on May 10, 2014, 08:37:29 PM: Not convinced.

My newest and now new favorite knife is a More #2, 4" fixed blade.

Mora #2 Classic (http://www.baryonyxknife.com/mora2classic.html)

It can do most everything he describes.

Most of what he talks about is much more efficiently done with a machete, rather than a large knife.

I carry those as well. 22" and 20" Latin patterns from Imacasa in El Salvador. The only machetes I've ever come across that can (after some edge work) shave hair off my arm.

Imacasa Pata de Cuche (http://www.baryonyxknife.com/impadecuth28.html)

If I had only one choice for living in the bush (outside of the SubArctic), it would be the machete. It truly does EVERYTHING.

Mario

PS- Lest you say the machete is just a big knife, be assured that looking at the historical record, it's actually a smaller, cheaper sword.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: rusty51 on May 11, 2014, 02:49:03 AM: I wish Buck would use a good High Carbon steel,their knives are ok,but not real good
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: sse on May 11, 2014, 09:52:50 AM: Quote from: "rusty51"
I wish Buck would use a good High Carbon steel,their knives are ok,but not real good
For the typical hunter, a Buck 110 is more than adequate. I field dressed a white tail and hacked up a wild turkey with mine and the edge is still sharp...two strokes on the ceramic and it is right back to razor sharp. (Plus, I consider it the 30-30 of knives. Late traditional, I call it.)

For anyone lucky enough to take more game, they may need to kick it up a notch to a specialized edge...
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: huntinguy on May 11, 2014, 11:57:03 AM: I had a mora years ago. It was the laminated blade style. It was a good knife, would hold an edge and easy to sharpen. I tried using it to cut off a small branch to use as a fishing float (about a half inch in diameter, I swung the knife like a machete and broke the cutting edge, back about 1/8 inch, the full length of the blade). I decided they were good but brittle.

I have not had the luck most people have had with the Buck 110 but it is a great sized knife. I broke the lock on mine... don't use it for battoning )

I do think the Buck 102 is a hard knife to beat though. It has survived with me for 40 years.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: sse on May 11, 2014, 01:11:27 PM: Another point for those it suits, the 110 is made in the US of A...
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: rollingb on May 12, 2014, 10:55:48 AM: My favorite knife is my old Green River "butcher" w/8" blade.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 12, 2014, 12:13:15 PM: Good bear knife.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: sse on May 12, 2014, 12:19:55 PM: Quote from: "rollingb"
My favorite knife is my old Green River "butcher" w/8" blade.
+1...!

And I got wunna them outta ya, too...!!!
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 12, 2014, 12:28:26 PM: Quote from: "sse"
Quote from: "rollingb"
My favorite knife is my old Green River "butcher" w/8" blade.
+1...!

And I got wunna them outta ya, too...!!!

How's she work on them bars?

Oh wait! You just hunt for chipmunks.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: sse on May 12, 2014, 12:32:20 PM: cut up a few hunnert pounds of bear fat pretty good...
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Muley on May 12, 2014, 12:35:11 PM: BTW..Your membership expired 200 years ago.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: sse on May 12, 2014, 02:52:53 PM: i'm still within the 'grace period'...
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: RobD on November 30, 2014, 12:27:45 PM: old topic, but i'd like to add my pennie's worth.

unless circumstances were combative, survival related, or some special cutting/chopping/prying requirement was routinely required, i don't need a cutting knife of more than a few inches, and my go to is still a li'l 2-1/4" helle ola-kniven blade. i've used one to skin deer and hog and rabbit. the laminated steel keeps a good edge, too. i buy the blades and make the handles, as well. so, my vote's for a really small, but good blade.

this one has a red oak handle and stays in a sheath that's laced to my possible bag's shoulder strap.
(http://i.imgur.com/wZg5mkh.jpg)
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Longhunter on November 30, 2014, 09:23:03 PM: Voyaguer Knife (http://shrewbows.com/knives/Voyageur_Knife.html)
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Forager on December 01, 2014, 06:29:52 AM: Ron, you have to stop coming up with great designs I "need".

That's a sharp looking blade!
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Longhunter on December 01, 2014, 09:04:24 AM: it will take a scary sharp edge...
As you can see from the picture the bottom knife has a broader blade. We've changed that with the top knife and I like that one better.

(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small38038762.JPG)
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Kermit on December 01, 2014, 11:36:03 AM: The small knife Mario recommends is commonly called a "Sloyd knife," developed in Finland in the late 19th century for use in handicrafts based education programs. Carvers still find them useful. They are simple, inexpensive, and usually very good steel. Highly recommended! They used to be available from a lot of woodworking suppliers like Woodcraft Supply and Highland Woodworking, but may have fallen from favor.

I like these:

Laminated Steel Sloyd Knives by Mora of Sweden (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Laminated-Steel-Sloyd-Knives-by-Mora-of-Sweden/products/486/)
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: TallTexan on December 03, 2014, 10:43:18 PM: Of all the knives I've owned over the years, for actual use after the shot, a blade of more than 4 inches is just in the way and unwieldy. 3 to 3 3/4 drop point with a lot of "belly" to the blade does it for me whether it deer or hogs. 4 or more inches is just for show and part of your custom be it re-enacting, CAS or living history. Perhaps field craft or prepping would require something longer but now being into that myself I wouldn't know. Perhaps my coolest knife and one that I love to show off when shooting Cowboy Action was a Muela 5 inch fixed blade Bowie knife with Sambar Crown Stag handle. The most I ever did with it was to cut some rope . I did however have a Marble "Cowboy" model with camel bone handle that I used to clean and gut one or two hogs with and the resulting patina was immediately arrested with Barricade.

So for me, smaller is better and more useful as far as my needs go.
Title: Re: Big Knife vs Smaller Knife...what is "best"?
Post by: Longhunter on December 03, 2014, 11:36:04 PM: You can do a lot with a small knife but you can do even more with a big knife. A big knife will cut down a tree or dress a squirrel

(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small14703443.JPG)