Post by: Stormrider51 on August 03, 2014, 11:13:19 PM
Somewhere along the way I read about Dutch Schoultz 99% water-free method. I quit reading at the first mention of WD-40. After all, I knew better than to use the stuff. Then about 4 years ago I retired and we moved to the country. I have to be careful about the direction I shoot and the available range is short but I can step outside and shoot pretty much whenever I want. Call me lazy but the boiling water method I had used most of my life seemed time consuming when done every two or three days. I re-read Dutch's method and decided to give it a try. I don't mind telling you that I was more than a little anxious and fairly certain I was going to find rust in the bore the day after cleaning. I still removed the lock and washed it under hot tap water before spraying with WD-40. I used patches wetted with a 6:1 mixture of water and Ballistol to swab around the vent area until clean. Then I used more wetted patches to swab the bore until the patch came out no more than light grey. I ran a couple of dry patches through and then followed with WD-40 soaked patches. I gave it three of those and then left the fourth one and the ramrod down at the breech just like Dutch said. I didn't sleep well that night and was up at the crack of dawn to check my gun for rust. The patch came out showing grey but not a trace of rust. I ran the same patch back down and left it for another day. There was still no rust the next time I checked.
Dutch attributes his method to "seasoning" the barrel in the way cast iron cookware has to be to prevent rust. I really tend to doubt that. A steel barrel isn't cast iron. Cast iron is somewhat porous. I think what makes Dutch's method work is the WD-40 itself. It was designed to displace water and does that very efficiently. It also seals the surface of the steel from contact with oxygen. Black powder fouling is hygroscopic, meaning that it attracts water. No water and no oxygen means no rust.
So what method do you use?
Storm
Post by: the Black Spot on August 04, 2014, 07:54:59 AM
Post by: prairie dog on August 04, 2014, 08:29:29 AM
Post by: Hanshi on August 04, 2014, 11:17:03 AM
Post by: Bigsmoke on August 04, 2014, 01:07:31 PM
You can get the Ol' Thunder and the Just Good Lube from Fletcher. IMHO, the best stuff on the market. And, reasonably priced, too.
John
Post by: Stormrider51 on August 04, 2014, 01:35:17 PM
Storm
Post by: biliff on August 04, 2014, 03:39:16 PM
Pinned barrels get the hot water treatment down the muzzle, drained, dried and ballistolled.
Post by: TallTexan on August 08, 2014, 12:34:52 AM
One thing that cuts down on a great deal of cleaning for me is the use of alcohol dampened patches between shots and right before leaving the range. That alone removes at least 75% of the fouling right away.
Post by: wattlebuster on August 09, 2014, 10:53:50 AM
Post by: Fletcher on August 13, 2014, 12:41:40 PM
as ML shooters - maybe a few more. At the Cascade Mountain Men Trade Show - then in Enumclaw
I met Bigsmoke and told him about my ML program for the Boy Scouts. He got me going with Ol' Thunder
and it was the best range and trail lube and the best cleaner as well. Did not not to boil all that water.
The damp patch serves as a lube and cleaner on each shot, so not need to 'clean' after every shot or 2.
We had several Scout shoots where more than 400 shots were made per gun per day - we only did a
quick clean at lunch time then a full clean at night. Our biggest event had 196 boys and a bunch of adults as well.
Bottom line - I liked it so well that I bought the company. Now Ol' Thunder is a water based lube/cleaner
so great for shots that have little time with the patch sitting on it - like range or trail. On a hunt where the
patched ball may go all day without firing you need a waterproof lube. That is where I offer Just Good Lube,
an all natural beeswax and Jojoba oil concoction that works great for hunting loads and cleans up just fine with
Ol' Thunder.
I am working on Just Good 'Revolver' Lube that is beeswax and Canola oil. It is less expensive and great for
lube and seal of black powder cylinder pistols. The trick is getting a one size fits all temperatures. Too cold and
it is stiff and gummy - too hot runny. I may have to settle for 'summer' and 'winter' formulas. Here in Montana
we can see 100 in summer and -30 in winter, and a man never lets a little weather git in the way of shootin'
Post by: Ron T. on August 18, 2014, 09:21:16 PM
The only thing I do that might be "different" is after swabbing the dirty barrel with a clean patch on my jag, I run a .50 caliber sized, nylon bore brush up and down the barrel several times, wetting it in the hot, soapy water after a few "swabs" and running it up and down in the barrel several more times.
Then I throw out the dirty water and replace it with clean water and put a new, clean patch on the jag, and with the bottom of the barrel still in the clean water, I clean out any remaining soap scum that might still be in the barrel. Then I once again throw out the semi-clean water and replace it with the hot, clean tap water (130º) once again... and, with the barrel still in the water, I swab the barrel with another clean patch on the jag several times.
Then I blow air pressure from a small double-tank air-pressure unit (available at Harbor Freight for about $100) down the barrel first, then when the barrel seems dry, I put the air-gun's nozzle up against the empty drum's screw opening and blow into the opening clearing the flash-hole, nipple and flash channel until it is completely dry, when I give the bore (at the muzzle) another "shot" of 100 pounds-per-square-inch air to insure the bore and flash-channel is as dry as possible.
At that point, I slide a small light down the barrel and look carefully at the lands and grooves to insure no further "gunk" remains (and the bore is usually very clean at that time). Then I slide the light out of the bore and shut it off.
Then, with a small, pressurized can of Ballistol, I give the flash-channel a quick "shot" of the Ballistol oil, then I blow the jag dry and put a clean, fairly oily (Ballistol) patch on the jag and run it up and down the barrel at least 6 times, changing it's position after each down & up movement of the jag.
Then, I blow the excess Ballistol out of the bore and the flash-channel, then slide the little light down the bore to insure it looks very shiny, then I remove the light and slide another clean, oily patch down the barrel to insure all of the bore has a light coating of Ballistol on it, clean the debris out of the stock and wipe the exterior of the barrel with the clean, oily patch I used on the bore. I then re-insert the barrel, lightly oil (Ballistol) the wedge and re-insert the wedge in the slot in the stock and the job is done.
I then put a folded over (several times) soft paper towel on the carpet behind the door to my computer room and place the rifle, muzzle-down on the paper towel, to allow any excess Ballistol to drain out and not "puddle" in the flash channel. I lean the butt-stock of the rifle up against the woodwork behind the door and the job is finished.
The next time I go to the Club's rifle range to use the rifle, I fire one percussion cap close to leaves and debris on the ground to insure all the Ballistol is gone and the flash-channel is cleared, load the rifle with 47 grains of Goex FFFg, add a thin vegetable-fiber over-powder wad on top of the powder charge, add the lubed, patched ball, add a cap to the rifle's nipple... and start my shooting.
Total cleaning time: ± 20-25 minutes.
Strength and Honor...
Ron T.
Post by: sse on August 22, 2014, 01:25:25 PM
After the water rinse and dry swab, I will swab with 91% rubbing alcohol to get it it as dry as possible. Then, I'll let it sit for a few days and then swab. If the swab comes out perfectly clean, I'll swab with preservative and be done.
Post by: snake eyes on August 22, 2014, 01:58:12 PM
Jim, that alcohol step sounds like a good move. I'll have to give it a try.
I would like to propose another ??? along the same lines. Do you do anything different
when storing for long periods of time. Like many here I am sure you have many guns
that don't get shot on a regular basis. I have some I have not shot for months even
a few years.A couple new ones I have never fired. My current method is just bring a
couple out every couple months wipe them down,re-oil the barrels and put them back.
Never have had a rust problem :shake [/color]
Post by: sse on August 22, 2014, 02:09:53 PM
Post by: snake eyes on August 22, 2014, 02:21:52 PM
What do you consider long term.....I'm sure you don't mean forever.....you ain't
lived that long yet.....HAVE YOU???? :shake [/color]
Post by: sse on August 22, 2014, 10:08:45 PM
Post by: mehavey on August 25, 2014, 02:47:04 PM
Two feet of Tygon tubing slip-fitted onto the nipple of percussion guns; or TOTW's flush attachment (w/ Tygon tubing again) for the flinters. After that it's all the same -- slightly soapy water cycled in/out of a coffee can using the pumping action of the wet patch --with extra short stutter pumps near the bottom to force-clean the breech residue.
Pull/clean/oil the nipple recess/thread -- and done.
Pull/scrub the flint lock with a toothbrush soapy water/rinse, air/oven dry/light oil -- and done.
Post by: snake eyes on August 25, 2014, 06:00:20 PM
Post by: Three Hawks on September 16, 2014, 03:35:02 AM
When the idiot fire marshal, piss be upon him, decided from his ultimate head up his poop chute so far all he can hear is his intestines rumbling that BP was too dangerous and made us go to BP substitute, I quit and haven't been back in years. No clue how the bores are now, but my three are all pretty much like new.
I got tangled up with a re-enactor who shoots a real live pre 1800 .35 cal. Pennsylvania Rifle, and a Real Charleville Musket that was used in the Revolutionary war. He cleans the same way I do except he uses lard. His 200 and somethin' yr old rifle is like new inside as is his Charleville Musket. That ol' windshield washer solvent and grease is magic. The one thing I've learned is to avoid petroleum products like the plague. EXCEPT for Dexron II automatic xmission fluid. It is synthetic whale oil and used by the drop is also magic. If getting windshield washer fluid is inconvenient, I go for house brand window washing spray containing water, isopropol alcohol, ammonia and blue dye. I could use Windex, but I was born cheap and had a relapse. Cleaning a muzzleloading rifle takes about ten minutes, requires no hot water and about four square inches of cheap cotton flannel.
WD-40 is just kerosene and perfume.
My patch material is the thinnest pillow ticking I can find, washed and dried to get rid of the sizing, then ripped into 3/4" to 1" strips, soaked with hot lard and pressed between several layers of newspaper. I keep the patching strips in a zip-lock bag in my shooting box. I've been using the same chunk of ticking I got from the scrap bit at the fabric store for a dollar about 20 or 25 years ago. The flannel came from the same bin. I use the flannel for patching the .285" balls cast in an antykew ball mold I shoot in the .30 barrel I made for my T-C Hawken. Talk about cheap shootin' the load is the 35.6 grain roundball, ten grains of 3F and home made caps.
All y'all's milieage may vary.
Three Hawks
Post by: prairie dog on September 16, 2014, 08:47:09 AM
Quote from: "prairie dog"
Moose milk, soap and water, and Break free.
I would like to add that patent breach percussion guns were giving me problems. I found that a 38 caliber bronze pistol brush would get into the breach of my 50 cal Lyman Great Plains Rifle and clean it out. Removing the clean out screw and getting in there with a pipe cleaner also helped.
My Pedersoli pistol also has a patent breach, a 22 rim-fire size brush cleans it well.
I use a TOW clean out nipple and flush tube to flush out my percussion guns. Since I glass bedded them I don't remove the barrel from the stock. I do take the locks out to clean those.
My flint lock Trade Gun is a different challenge. I do remove the barrel from the stock to flush it. A plastic bristle 20 gauge shot gun brush helps remove the fouling from the coned flash hole and a breach scraper gets the fouling off there.
The above cleaning methods have eliminated miss-fires and hang fires for me.
Post by: Fletcher on September 16, 2014, 11:42:03 AM
About a dozen folk and 10 guns (plus hawk&knife and archery) Mini-Rondy :happy
Post by: Bigsmoke on September 16, 2014, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: "Fletcher"
Just had a Boy Scout shoot/campout in my back yard this weekend.
About a dozen folk and 10 guns (plus hawk&knife and archery) Mini-Rondy :happy
It's amazing how well that Ol' Thunder works. It's been my go to for 20+ years, and no doubt always will be.
Thanks for keeping it going, Fletcher.
It's the best stuff north of south and west of east.
And I wouldn't say that if'n it weren't so.
John
Post by: Two Steps on September 17, 2014, 09:19:45 PM
Quote
It's amazing how well that Ol' Thunder worksYep..I like it too. Gotta get with Fletch and get some more, I'm down to about my last inch in my last bottle that I got from you some years back John.
Al
Post by: Fletcher on September 17, 2014, 11:05:17 PM
Post by: Big Medicine on September 20, 2014, 01:22:29 AM
Big Medicine
Post by: prairie dog on September 20, 2014, 08:56:43 AM
I'd bet Mario will be along directly to set us straight on it.
Post by: James Kelly on September 22, 2014, 07:53:40 AM
It all contains salt. Some is acid.
It has been said that a little, say Lemon Joy, in a stainless sink will pit holes through it in a few days. I personally have not tried it, but I know that such soaps are delightfully corrosive. Which I know because I am the retired Technical Guy for a company that sold corrosion resistant metals, sort of like Stainless on Steroids.
Soap and hot water. Good for cleaning and good for rusting.
Daggone metallurgists never know what they're talking about now, do they?
Post by: Geezer in NH on September 27, 2014, 06:51:42 PM
Then coat with Rig grease. That has worked for me for over 25 years. I have never had a bad barrel treated this way.
Post by: jimnbubba on January 10, 2015, 09:54:17 AM
Post by: Loyalist Dave on January 16, 2015, 07:39:26 AM
I use water, and a drop or two of dishwashing liquid breaks down the surface tension, so helps the water as a solvent for the ash and residue. Very soapy water may be an advantage for folks using a grease to lube their patches...help in cutting any residual grease.
After several rinsings of the barrel, I will use tow to scrub, or just use a cloth patch.
Some folks like to follow with a dry patch, then alcohol (to absorb water), then another dry patch. The "WD" in WD-40 stands for "water displacement"...so for some folks this does work well.
I follow with sweet oil (very cheap olive oil) or with a mixture of Olive Oil and Beeswax in a grease.
The key is though to get all of the moisture out of the barrel or you will end up trapping it in the barrel with the steel.
I usually swab the bore and reapply the oil once a day for two more days after cleaning to be certain the rust will not develope.LD
Post by: Rocklock on January 18, 2015, 11:27:29 PM
TC
Post by: blackpowderbill on July 23, 2015, 09:29:14 AM