Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Lonewolfe20 on September 23, 2014, 11:19:10 PM

Title: Kids size rifle
Post by: Lonewolfe20 on September 23, 2014, 11:19:10 PM: I saw some pictures of a child's size rifle couldn't tell if it was 44 or a 30's caliber
It was a shorter rifle

I have a 9 year old who wants to shoot bp but can't consistently hold the rifle and aim

Does anyone know of anything that would work

Thanks
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: gunmaker on September 24, 2014, 12:31:08 AM: Well you can get or make a pair of cross sticks. Tie two 1" sticks together about 3-4 in. from one end, that'll be the top. Sit the child down behind sticks shoved in ground little ways. You load rifle (with a very lite powder charge to start) forearm of gun on sticks, child shoulders gun with elbows supported on knees with legs bent up heels together. This is a very steady position and sticks hold up gun. When they have sites lined up on target--you cap or prime and !!!bang!!! I taught all five of ours like this starting at age 4, yes 4. a CVA frontier .50 cal 26" bbl. You can buy a short little gun with a pull of 11"-12" but they grow fast, soon little gun is in the corner. The other way is from a chair behind a table, with gun forearm on a rest, elbows on table. Thats how we site in rifles....If you know all this already, well just my thoughts....Get those kids shooting...Tom
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Riley/MN on September 24, 2014, 04:22:27 PM: [attachment=0:1m2mtcrf][/attachment]Madi w gun.jpg[/attachment:1m2mtcrf]

Something like this?
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Lonewolfe20 on September 25, 2014, 12:17:30 AM: That is a real looker there Riley
Did you make that
Great advise gunmaker I will have to fashion up some sticks to help
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Riley/MN on September 25, 2014, 07:17:05 AM: No, We stopped in at a trade gun class being given by my friend Brent Gurtek. This is a gun he had built - I think he said it was for a nephew. Madilyn seemed to like it...
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: gunmaker on September 25, 2014, 01:00:27 PM: Riley, could we maybe see some pics of that sweet little shooter ? I have a .410 bbl. that I want to make a 1/2 scale "starter" gun for kids......Tom
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Hanshi on September 25, 2014, 04:33:35 PM: Now that's cute.
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Riley/MN on September 25, 2014, 09:49:53 PM: I didn't get much for pictures, but I will see if Brent has some "up close" ones
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Brent Gurtek on September 26, 2014, 09:03:42 AM: I'll get some photos of the little gun on the TMA soon. It's actually a smoothbore of a rather odd size - .607". Ed Rayl made the barrel and I have another identical barrel as I need to make another kids smoothbore. They're used for clay pigeons at youth shooting expos put on by a local conservation groups.

Brent
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Lonewolfe20 on September 26, 2014, 11:27:58 AM: Awesome looking forward to
Seeing it a little better
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: gunmaker on September 26, 2014, 11:50:41 AM: Thanks Brent, thats what I'm after a little .410 to get the babies out shooting.....Tom
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Captchee on September 26, 2014, 11:59:23 AM: you looking for production or custom ?
production wise there isnt much unless you run across one of the smaller TC , Tradions or CVA rifles .

past that you have alot of choices .
Ray Franks has some smaller guns
here are some of my revamps of production guns .

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/cva/DSC00249_zps793c665b.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/cva/Moonofthebuck048.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/cva/DSC00974.jpg)

and somewhere i have a little .410 NW trade gun i did for the young man in the 2nd photo
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Captchee on September 26, 2014, 12:13:35 PM: It looks like that when my PC crashed last month , i lost the photos of the little NW gun .
but here is a link to the vedio of when we gave it to John .
and yes i miss spoke . after watching the vedio i had to go look it up . it is .460./ 46 cal smooth
http://vid6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/vedio/JOHNSNWGUN_FIX_zps7629e26e.mp4
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: gunmaker on September 26, 2014, 12:17:14 PM: Thats a well armed young man.....Tom
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Brent Gurtek on September 26, 2014, 07:45:04 PM: [attachment=1:3tl9t16k][/attachment]SN 83 003.jpg[/attachment:3tl9t16k][attachment=2:3tl9t16k][/attachment]SN 83 002.jpg[/attachment:3tl9t16k][attachment=2:3tl9t16k][/attachment]SN 83 002.jpg[/attachment:3tl9t16k]Revamps of production guns are a great way to go for making arms for kids! (They can make some really neat full-size pieces as well.) I'm going to see if my wife can figure out how to get photos posted here. I have a bunch of them of the little gun Riley and his grand daughter are holding.

Brent
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Brent Gurtek on September 26, 2014, 08:42:40 PM: [attachment=0:1agzfc2l][/attachment]SN 83 007.jpg[/attachment:1agzfc2l][attachment=1:1agzfc2l][/attachment]SN 83 006.jpg[/attachment:1agzfc2l][attachment=2:1agzfc2l][/attachment]SN 83 005.jpg[/attachment:1agzfc2l]My wife, Ann, got some photos of the little gun posted. Here's a few more.

Brent
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Riley/MN on September 26, 2014, 11:03:57 PM: Thanks for posting those Brent!
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Brent Gurtek on September 27, 2014, 09:36:41 AM: Your welcome Riley! I also have some footage from the latest youth expo of youngin's firing it at the skeet range. At this hour, I don't know how to get a still photo from it but I'll give it a go.
Like some of you have said, making youth guns is problematic in that the intended users quickly outgrow them. For that reason, one approach that I'm going to try on the next youth smoothbore is to make the gun with two independent triggers. The gun will be a single barrel gun but built with a double barrel gun trigger arrangement - as weird as that sounds. Thus the piece will nave two trigger pulls!
I'll post a sketch of this trigger arrangement soon - but now I've got to scoot. We're taking a few grand kids to the Lester River Rondy today.
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Geezer in NH on September 27, 2014, 09:57:02 PM: Quote from: "gunmaker"
Riley, could we maybe see some pics of that sweet little shooter ? I have a .410 bbl. that I want to make a 1/2 scale "starter" gun for kids......Tom
I have a book about trade guns with a gun sized 410 for kids. I will find it this weekend and let you know.
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Captchee on September 27, 2014, 10:03:37 PM: if it the one in the trade gun sketch book , its a 1/3 scale . its the drawings i used to make the little NW gun in the vedio i posted
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Brent Gurtek on September 28, 2014, 09:41:22 AM: Gary Messer, a gunmaker near Hayward, Wisconsin, does make youth-sized Northwest Trade Guns. He made his own pantograph and may have a pattern to make them.
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Kermit on October 02, 2014, 02:28:47 PM: When I first got involved with this fun, a fellow in our club who was a machinist made a tiny Lehigh rifle for his children to shoot. It was carved, inlaid, and engraved. It also had interchangeable locks, one flint and one percussion. It stayed percussion most of the time. He used a barrel (round, of course) that was salvaged from an old .22rf whose parentage I don't know. Both locks were made entirely with hacksaw and files and were tiny. The two lockplates were an exact fit. He said most of it was done with files in his recliner in evenings in front of the TV. It always amazed me whenever it came out. After his kids moved on to full-sized rifles, it mostly showed up at our two annual rondys and when we invited the public in. He would load and cap the little feller and with supervision and help let kids as young as 4 or 5 shoot it. The little grins were great to see.
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Brent Gurtek on October 02, 2014, 05:34:46 PM: One of the best things we, as black powder shooters and gun makers can do, is get the young-ins involved. It's history, being outdoors, learning useful skills and instilling a love for handmade articles.
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Geezer in NH on October 02, 2014, 09:21:06 PM: Quote from: "Captchee"
if it the one in the trade gun sketch book , its a 1/3 scale . its the drawings i used to make the little NW gun in the vedio i posted
I believe that was the book . I have looked all over for but it must have been lent out to never return.

I have lost many that way
Title: Re: Kids size rifle
Post by: Kermit on October 02, 2014, 10:43:15 PM: ((There's a sign in my shop that says "No tools loaned." My wife says it's rude. Same goes for books. Took me a long time to learn.))