Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: MacRob46 on April 21, 2016, 02:53:20 PM
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Anyone watching Fire and Iron on the "History Channel?" Not really that much concerning muzzle loaders but I have seen Daniel Casey make and test fire two rifles on the show. Very little of the gun making process is shown. I did notice one thing when they test fire the rifles. The shooters, in almost every case, close their eyes before the priming in the pan goes off!! Don't see how they hit anything.
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Yep. Even my wife noticed it w/ out me pointing it out.
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It's nice to see programs like that on tv.
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Not a bad show, some things make me cringe when he is blacksmithing. The one thing that is a negative is that they are shooting these rifles without any eye protection. Bad idea.
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... The shooters, in almost every case, close their eyes before the priming in the pan goes off!! Don't see how they hit anything.
It would be interesting to see hi-def slow motion video of anybody shooting a flintlock gun. I'd bet good money more eye closing is going on than you'd think. I've shot flintlocks for a good many years, pretty good in my younger days, and I don't remember ever seeing the flash.
However, I do agree only showing a couple whacks on a butt plate and a little bandsaw work on a patch box cover hardly covers building a rifle. Does he make the lock & triggers? Does he make the barrels? Does he chop down the trees for the stock? I heard him mention the "Golden Mean Ratio" but don't see him practicing that when it comes to lock placement. I can't say I like how the tail of the lock points down and is not centered on the stock. It's a pretty good show but it's like every other "reality" TV show. It's about entertaining people not teaching them something. I'd think a lot of what we would find interesting winds up on the cutting room floor.
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"It's about entertaining people not teaching them something. I'd think a lot of what we would find interesting winds up on the cutting room floor."
I have to agree with Keb here, there is just sooo much we'd like to see that just ain't there, still yet the show seems to be serving its intended purpose of entertaining folks....I think we are up to about episode six now, and I've watched them all....some with more interest than others.
As a side note; I have noticed that "eye closing" part on many rock-lock shooters and, on some, it shows on the target, while on others it don't...unless they were just almighty lucky every shot.
For the first 30 or so years of shooting flintlocks I did not wear safety glasses, I wear glasses now because I have to if I'm going to see anything...and then I can remember many many others over the years that didn't wear them either, nowadays I suppose I could look back and think... "now that there was one big bunch of lucky fellers, myself included", but the truth is no one wore safety glasses back in the heyday of flintlocks either.
While today, it's the smart thing to do, regardless!
As far as seeing the target, wearing glasses, and seeing the pan flash, I reckon I do see that as my eyes are open. In the early days, seeing others "blink", at just that moment, made me conscious of concentrating even harder on my target....to the point where I depend more on recoil and sound than the actual pan flash.
Fire and Iron is a okay TV program, and I'm glad it's on TV for others to see....especially our youth.
Of course there's going to always be some amongst us who will pick at things, and that's fine amongst like-minded friends.
Same as Revenant, great movie, IMHO, but it was just a movie and I've heard a lot of comments about since it came out, most of it having to do with "correctness", so much so I have the feeling that some folks only go to such flicks to count stitch, not really enjoying the movie for its intended purpose, entertainment.
Still yet, I suspect that is as it should be, and I wouldn't change it even if I could.
Just sayin.
Uncle Russ...
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I used to wear prescription glasses but since I had cataract surgery I no longer have to. But, I do wear safety glasses. Part of this is because in 2005, when I still wore prescription glasses, I was participating in a reenactment of the Battle of Ramseur's Mill and when I fired a blank round from my Brown Bess a piece of flint flew back into the left lens of my glasses. It left a severe pit in the lens and would have done so in my eye if I had not been wearing them. I understand a lot of folks don't and when the guns were the modern weapon to shoot, nobody did. However, these days it is a very good idea to wear safety glasses, authentic or not. So I agree with Uncle Russ' statement that being smart dictates wearing them.
I also agree with Russ on The Revenant. It was a good story, well photographed and well acted. I have read the novel it was based on, John Myers' book which was based on research and references, and the earlier fictional account - Lord Grizzly and feel that they did a pretty good job of communicating the story, with a few exceptions. But to dwell on some of the details rather than considering the whole is unfortunate and certainly takes the pleasure out of seeing it if you do. The story that has come down to us is generally second hand. The only person who knew what happened after Fitzgerald and Bridger fled the scene was Hugh Glass and at this late date it is impossible to determine whether everything he told was true or the result of delirium. All that being said, his survival and subsequent search for the two men who he felt wronged him - and they did - is an epic story worth remembering.
P.S. I don't close my eyes when I shoot my flintlocks, ever!
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it'd be insane not to wear safety glasses for shooting any kinda firearm. and i mean real safety glasses made of polycarb and not glass.
here's why .... the frames below show what happens in a fraction of a second, particularly frame #3. if you click on the image you'll see the video of those frame grabs, and that fraction of a second that's shown below doesn't look all that scary dangerous in the video (jump ahead to the 30 second mark).
(http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/tradml/imgs/firing.jpg) (http://https)
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Many years ago now I was firing one of my flinters, and had forgotten to put on my shooting glasses. When I turned around to reload, a friend noticed that blood was dripping from the end of my nose. He pulled a neat little piece fo flint from the bridge of my nose, right between my eyes, where there was a very neat little incision about 3/8" long. I still shudder to think of the implications should that landed a couple of inches right or left.
Wear glasses.
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Many years ago now I was firing one of my flinters, and had forgotten to put on my shooting glasses. When I turned around to reload, a friend noticed that blood was dripping from the end of my nose. He pulled a neat little piece fo flint from the bridge of my nose, right between my eyes, where there was a very neat little incision about 3/8" long. I still shudder to think of the implications should that landed a couple of inches right or left.
Wear glasses.
Not doing a commercial for them by any means but I like and always wear Ranger shooting glasses by Randolph Engineering. They are made in the USA and have a large selection of easily interchanged lenses which provide good coverage. Not cheap but what is an eye worth?
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A lot of good advice here. And giving examples of close calls, or worse, is pretty persuasive.
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Not just flinters!!!! Before I got started with rocklocks I replaced a pair of yellow plastic lensed shooting glasses that were pock marked from cap debris.
Eyes and ears gentlemen, eyes and ears.
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Not just flinters!!!!
No doubt...
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I am pleased to see the topic of traditional muzzleloaders covered on prime time TV.
However, these so-called "reality" shows, including fire and iron, have become formulaic. There is the star of the show (Daniel Casey; Rick Harrison on Pawn Stars; etc.). Then there is the fall guy, side kick, comic relief, usually a goofy fellow (Bob Thatcher on Fire and Iron; Chumlee on Pawn Stars). Then there are assorted others in the background.
So far, the amount of coverage on the actual building of a long rifle would barely fill up one episode of the show. So much is filler - banter with the hangers-on, building a house addition.
Maybe the combination of The Revenant and Fire and Ice will stimulate some interest in our activity. That would be great. But I just don't have the desire to spend an hour watching 5 minutes of rifle building and shooting and 35 minutes of family and friend interaction and 20 minutes of advertisements.
Ron
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I'm with you Ron. I have watched two episodes and that is probably all I will watch.
"Reality TV" which is anything but real, is cheap to produce and requires little if any creativity or talent. A few of the shows are pretty good but most are just plain boring and appear staged. A few of them are actually giving air time to people who are con artists of the first order as far as their particular past time or lifestyle is concerned. I will not name names because I don't want to be sued but you probably know who I am talking about.
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I am pleased to see the topic of traditional muzzleloaders covered on prime time TV.
However, these so-called "reality" shows, including fire and iron, have become formulaic. There is the star of the show (Daniel Casey; Rick Harrison on Pawn Stars; etc.). Then there is the fall guy, side kick, comic relief, usually a goofy fellow (Bob Thatcher on Fire and Iron; Chumlee on Pawn Stars). Then there are assorted others in the background.
So far, the amount of coverage on the actual building of a long rifle would barely fill up one episode of the show. So much is filler - banter with the hangers-on, building a house addition.
Maybe the combination of The Revenant and Fire and Ice will stimulate some interest in our activity. That would be great. But I just don't have the desire to spend an hour watching 5 minutes of rifle building and shooting and 35 minutes of family and friend interaction and 20 minutes of advertisements.
Ron
Well said...
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I've watched every episode of Iron and Fire and I agree there is very little about actually building a firearm. There were also a few things that made me cringe. Casey builds a flintlock for a customer and when he test fires it the frizzen flies forward when struck by the hammer but then bounces back to smack the flint a second time and comes to rest on it. That lock is far from being tuned. I really hope he didn't ship the gun to the customer like that or somebody is going to be wondering why the gun gets such short flint life. In another scene he dry fires a supposedly original percussion rifle. No snap cap. Bare nipple. Casey claims to have been taught by Herschel House. He should know better. Then there is the rifle that is brought to him still loaded. It appears to be a TC Hawken and has supposedly been sitting in a closet for years in that condition. After stating that removing the ball and charge from this gun is dangerous, he locks the rifle horizontal in a vise, runs a ball pulling jag down, screws it into the ball, and stands in front of the muzzle while tugging on the rod. Then he recruits one of his relatives to hold the rifle and pull one direction while he pulls in the other, still standing in front of the muzzle. They get the ball out. Then he tries to unbreach the rifle and can't turn the breech plug. He says it is welded in place by rust and is therefore dangerous to shoot. He stresses that the owner will be told to not fire it. Then he and his merry men take it out to "test fire" it. I'm okay with that but expected the gun to be secured in a restraining device and fired by a long cord attached to the trigger and led back to cover. When I see him holding the rifle to his shoulder and firing I had to shake my head. Then he let his relatives/friends shoot it. Dangerous? Don't do what we just did?
Anyway, I'll continue to watch the program. Hopefully, they will start to catch some of the errors and dangerous practices.
John
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Its great to know that some form of muzzleloading is on tv. But I am happy to say I have not seen any of this or any other unreality on reality tv. I quit watching any tv several yrs ago when so many of these reality show started coming on. If you will just think for a second there is none of that crap even remotely real. But its there for entertainment an thats fine if you want to watch it. I still have a tv an watch dvds though not often. I do take the money that went for the satalite every month an put that in new flintlock funds an you would be amazed how fast it stacks up for a new rifle or smoothbore. Mike Brooks got my tv/satalite money back a few months ago. Now let me add that I am single an my daughter is grown but if I still had other people in the household I would of course just about have to have tv for their sake but for a single old man that is set in his grumpy ways they can keep their reality to themselfs
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Yeah, I don't have cable or satellite out where I live so don't get to see the Iron and Fire show but my buddy at work tells me about it. I'd like to see it just because of the subject matter, whether it's good or not so good.
As for shooting a flinter (which is just about all I shoot) y'all are right. Back in the day we'd go to rendezvous and be out shooting and it was common practice and courtesy to say loudly and plainly "flintlock" just before pulling the trigger so everyone around could turn their heads away! We didn't need no stinking safety glasses or ear plugs. Always wear both gents! The eyes and what's left of the ears are way too important to risk.