Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: micah223 on August 13, 2016, 07:59:44 PM

Title: Northstar West
Post by: micah223 on August 13, 2016, 07:59:44 PM
Does anyone own a Northstar West Early Northwest Tradegun or the Northwest Tradegun? If so what barrel length did you choose ? I currently own a 30" trade gun from a local builder. It is ok , but I like the idea of a period correct Tradegun. I have never held a 36" or the 41" Tradegun . I do have several long rifles with 42" barrel but was looking for some input from actual owners.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: RobD on August 14, 2016, 08:17:43 AM
imho, much past a 24" barrel only makes for a better iron sight aiming plane and contributes little to accuracy.  if you are looking to replicate a specific gun, then its length is what you want.  if yer not sure about barrel lengths, do the research - here are some that may help ...

Indian Trade Guns – Thefurtrapper.com (http://thefurtrapper.com/home-page/indian-trade-guns/)

Some Observations Concerning Northwest Trade Guns - Edmonton House Brigade (http://www.edmontonhousebrigade.com/about-us/some-observations-concerning-northwest-trade-guns)

http://americansocietyofarmscollectors. ... Hanson.pdf (http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/B014_Hanson.pdf)

Fur Trade Guns | Firearms | Northwest Gun (http://www.furtrade.org/museum-collections/firearms/)

... other than than, the rest is totally subjective and trade guns of any type, origin, or style have had lotsa different barrel lengths.  the main thing is to happily satisfy yer trade gun goal - go for it!
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Keb on August 14, 2016, 09:07:58 AM
I've owned & shot 30', 36" and 41" Northwest Trade guns by Northstar & Northstar West.
They all shot great after figuring out what they liked.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: micah223 on August 14, 2016, 10:02:56 AM
Did any specific barrel length appeal more than another ? I will use it for deer and squirrel .
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: RobD on August 14, 2016, 10:07:26 AM
please read carefully through the links i posted above.

since trade gun (so'east and nor'west) were prodigiously produced in barrel lengths of 30" thru 42", pick a length that you think will work best for you and still remain "period correct".  

this is YOUR gun, not mine or anyone else's gun, and barrel length is subjectively appropriate to meet your needs and requirements.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: micah223 on August 14, 2016, 10:57:40 AM
I have read most of the links you posted and appreciate the help. However since I do not currently own the longer lengths of barrels I was looking for input from users. Rather than think about it I hoped to benefit from someone else's experiences. I have done this in the past and it helped me by exposing points I had not considered. I would rather benefit from another's experience than learn from a costly mistake. Thanks again .
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Buzzard on August 14, 2016, 11:01:04 AM
Micah, i agree with all of these fellows, it's yours to choose. I own and hunt with several. I prefer to use 42" for game animals, 36" for game birds. Just my thoughts. If you pause to think through your most likely uses, i'm sure you'll figure it out. Your failsafe for everything would then be the 36" in 20ga.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: RobD on August 14, 2016, 11:08:07 AM
micah, listen to what buzzard just posted.  yer asking a very very subjective question in which anyone's answer will be correct - for them, not you.  the difference in barrel lengths is really all about the sight plane and then the carry and the aim.  short barrels are easier to carry and swing.  long barrels have better sight planes.  both will get the job done based on yer shooting abilities.  consider the terrain yer hunting - would a shorter barrel be easier in dense woods than a longer barrel?
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Keb on August 14, 2016, 12:18:41 PM
Well, I personally like the look of a long barrel. I'm not a hunter any more so scrambling thru brush is not a problem for me. I only shoot occasionally and am not competitive any more but if I was, I'd shoot what I have and that's a 48" by 28 gauge fowling gun.
However, from my experience, I will say all lengths will shoot accurately with the right load if there isn't some other problem with the gun.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: micah223 on August 14, 2016, 01:22:30 PM
I am leaning towards a 41". For my first one then leaning towards a 36 latter. Thanks
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: RobD on August 14, 2016, 03:37:25 PM
as already mentioned a buncha times, they's all good, bud.  all depends on how and where yer gonna use it.  i think you'll like that longer choice.    

i'm with keb and prefer smoothies to be longer, at least 40" or so, i have a couple that are 42" and 44".  if the balance is right, she'll swing good for shot charges on skwerls and be easy handling for patched ball loads.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: micah223 on August 14, 2016, 04:39:10 PM
How much does yours weigh and does it balance well. My 30" is a joy to carry but does not seem to hang well.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: RobD on August 14, 2016, 04:53:31 PM
is it muzzle heavy?  is the balance point not at some agreeable point on the forestock?

with a custom long gun, the balance is a point to be discussed and agreed on with yer gunmaker.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: micah223 on August 14, 2016, 08:49:30 PM
Very good point. I will call Matt tomorrow and discuss it with him. I have spoken to him about the correctness of the arm and his favorite , but never thought to ask about how it was balanced and swung. It will be interesting to hear his thoughts . Thanks
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Mike Brooks on August 15, 2016, 08:43:25 AM
In my meager experience I have found that the longer  barrels shoot both RB's and shot better than shorter barrels, in all gauges, when they are properly loaded. With practice you can wing shoot with a 4' barrel, in fact if you don't mind missing a few you can shoot skeet with good success. But generally if you are only going to shoot shot I'd go with a 16 to 10 bore and keep the length to 36" to 42". If you are only going to shoot RB I'd go 28 bore, 48" to about 54", after 54" the gun can become inconvenient. Although with some experience you can learn to handle barrels out to 72" long. Also, don't associate weight with length. Properly built long barrels aren't heavy.
 Historically, and I know many of you don't care about that sort of thing, English trade guns in the 1700's had barrels that were most commonly 4' in the barrel. Next most common was 3 1/2'.  Through the first 1/2 of the 1800's the most common trade gun barrel length was 3 1/2' with 4' still popular as well as 3' becoming more popular.
 French trade guns in colonial america had barrels that were 4 pieds in length, which translates to 53 1/4" . This length was pretty universal with French trade guns.
 It wasn't unusual for barrel lengths to  vary an inch or so in both French and English trade guns, usually on the shorter side of the variance. Small differences is actual barrel length didn't seem to matter back then.
 English trade gun barrels were quite light in weight. The breech being about 1". A finished english trade gun with a 4' barrel weighs 6lbs give or take a few ounces. French trade guns commonly had barrels between 1 1/8" to 1 1/4. The original french trade guns with barrels 4 pieds in length I have examined usually weigh about 1 pound  more than their English counter parts with a 4' barrel.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: micah223 on August 15, 2016, 12:52:01 PM
Terrific Post! This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much , you have helped me make my decision.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Stormrider51 on August 15, 2016, 03:17:55 PM
Meager experience, Mike?  Micah, Mr. Brooks is one of the better gunmakers around.  Click here index (http://www.fowlingguns.com/)

John
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Hank in WV on August 15, 2016, 05:08:42 PM
He'll be something to see if he ever really catches on to this stuff.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Ironhand on August 16, 2016, 04:33:42 PM
I went with 36 inch. Longest barrel I felt would still be handy in deep brush. Also just the right length for easy loading.  You millage may vary.

Ironhand
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: micah223 on August 16, 2016, 06:53:31 PM
His site is awesome!
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Dewey on August 18, 2016, 08:58:20 PM
NorthStar West is no longer accepting orders due to Matt's poor health, and is for sale:

   North Star West    (http://www.northstarwest.com/)

Glad I got my Chief's gun (20ga, 36" btw) when I did ... you think some things will last forever, but they don't ....   :(

Hopefully Matt can recover, or at least find a buyer that will continue in his and Curly's footsteps.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Mike Brooks on August 18, 2016, 09:04:03 PM
I'm sorry to hear of that, he always presented a good product.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: wattlebuster on August 21, 2016, 01:45:12 PM
Ditto
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: RobD on August 21, 2016, 01:47:10 PM
double ditto's.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Bigsmoke on August 21, 2016, 03:26:45 PM
Quote
Hopefully Matt can recover, or at least find a buyer that will continue in his and Curly's footsteps.

Not to forget Bill Wescomb and ol' Iron Jaw.  They owned it before Matt and after Curly.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: RobD on August 21, 2016, 03:28:26 PM
there be a goodly staunch trad ml crew out there, and i'll bet someone, or some group, will take over the north star reins.  it's too good an outfit to send out to pasture.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: waksupi on September 08, 2016, 04:34:30 PM
I do hope someone takes it over. I've been one of Matt's builders for 5-6 years, and enjoy the work.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Ohio Joe on September 28, 2016, 10:21:24 AM
Are kits still available?
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Riley/MN on September 28, 2016, 10:56:26 AM
**SNIP**

Thread moderated, and I don't have time to do such - keep it on topic & within our guidelines, boys!
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Bigsmoke on September 28, 2016, 02:26:41 PM
Thanks, Riley.
Title: Re: Northstar West
Post by: Riley/MN on September 28, 2016, 06:40:08 PM
Yah, you betcha.