Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: WonkoTheSane on December 04, 2016, 07:13:50 PM

Title: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: WonkoTheSane on December 04, 2016, 07:13:50 PM

After watching the video that was recently posted to the TMA Facebook page about the Muskets & Fowlers of Colonial Williamsburg (http://https) I got to thinking which smoothbore would I want, if I was out on the frontier and could only take one, fowler or musket.  

I was thinking that a musket may be a better choice.  Although the musket is a military weapon, it is more robust and was built to “take a beating and still keep sparking”.  The fowler, built along the lines of the American Longrifle, may be a more fragile piece and require a bit more care from the owner/user.  Yes, the lock time on a musket, either a Brown Bess or Charleville, is longer than that of a fowler, however, after a few shots, it would not hard to allow for that time when shooting.   Furthermore, since both are smoothbores, any round balls loaded would need to be “snug fit”, that is wrapped in patching to keep them from bouncing down the barrel.

Of course, I may be a bit biased, since I do have a Brown Bess.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Bigsmoke on December 04, 2016, 08:25:01 PM

Even with its two foot hammer throw, my old Bess had pretty fast ignition.  It would even shoot upside down.  I am sure we have all been in situations where there was a need for that characteristic. :hey-hey

I think you are right, the Bess or the Charleyville would be a more rugged piece than a fowler.

The only downside I can see is if choosing a Bess, you already have one and you are shorting yourself out of a new gun.

John

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Rocklock on December 04, 2016, 10:14:42 PM

NW Trade Gun.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: amm1851 on December 05, 2016, 01:41:21 AM

Quote from: "Rocklock"

NW Trade Gun.

Ditto

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Riley/MN on December 05, 2016, 05:28:17 PM

Quote from: "amm1851"

Quote from: "Rocklock"

NW Trade Gun.

Ditto

 

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: WonkoTheSane on December 05, 2016, 07:02:16 PM

To those that have suggested the NorthWest Trade Gun, what advantages would it have over a fowler or a musket?

Bigsmoke, What I meant was that since I already own a Brown Bess and have never fired a fowler, I may be bit biased toward the Bess for that reason.  I was hoping to start a discussion about the merits of both the fowler and musket as the smoothbore of choice.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Riley/MN on December 05, 2016, 07:41:38 PM

Maybe not as robust as a Bess, but pretty durn robust. Very authentic to many parts of the country (as is the Bess). If'n I had a Bess, I might notta bought the trade gun....

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: larryp on December 05, 2016, 10:55:14 PM

The main advantage a trade gun or fowler has over a military musket is lighter weight and often better handling for aiming at moving game. Especially birds. The musket on the other hand as noted is very rugged, but a lot heavier. The musket does have the advantage of having a sling which comes in handy when dragging back big game or climbing in steep terrain where both hands are needed. ( Which is why my Chief's Grade trade gun has a sling).

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: amm1851 on December 05, 2016, 11:23:00 PM

Light, versatile,  sturdy and in continuous use from around 1670 to about 1920.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: rollingb on December 06, 2016, 12:05:35 AM

I used to have a Brown Bess and when compared to my NWTG the Bess just felt "sort'a clunky" so I sold it and replaced it with a fowler.  

YMMV

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: RobD on January 11, 2017, 08:52:40 AM

i like smoothbores, but don't get caught up in the "musket/fowler" terminology.  i like 20 gauge guns with 42" OTR barrels with only a front sight (local shoots ban rear sights) and as superb a lock as possible.  the full stock can be of most any hardwood and with reasonable proportions, drop and LOP.  sparse furniture of brass or steel, don't much matter, they's all good.  typical weight of perhaps 8lbs.

(http://i.imgur.com/yNcZezP.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/lkxbaCF.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/TYelOzD.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/DLTDo4W.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/GlSJw3p.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/FRk60lk.jpg)

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Eric Krewson on January 11, 2017, 09:47:47 AM

I have a trade gun, light and handy but plain. This is an old Gustomsky kit gun.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/Gostomsky%20trade%20gun%20001_zps4mb3y01z.jpg) (http://http)

When I decided to build a 12ga turkey gun I chose an English fowler because of the extra bling.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20006_zpspbh7e0rl.jpg) (http://http)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20002_zpssg7infha.jpg) (http://http)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20004_zpso6yntzge.jpg) (http://http)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20005_zpsbr1ekhfy.jpg) (http://http)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20003_zpsmr3nsmxh.jpg) (http://http)

I like bling apposed to plain.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: sse on January 11, 2017, 11:55:00 AM

Quote from: "Rob DiStefano"

i like smoothbores, but don't get caught up in the "musket/fowler" terminology.  i like 20 gauge guns with 42" OTR barrels with only a front sight (local shoots ban rear sights) and as superb a lock as possible.  the full stock can be of most any hardwood and with reasonable proportions, drop and LOP.  sparse furniture of brass or steel, don't much matter, they's all good.  typical weight of perhaps 8lbs.

(http://i.imgur.com/yNcZezP.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/lkxbaCF.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/TYelOzD.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/DLTDo4W.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/GlSJw3p.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/FRk60lk.jpg)

Rob, your taste in shooting implements is impeccable...

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: sse on January 11, 2017, 11:55:37 AM

Quote from: "Eric Krewson"

I have a trade gun, light and handy but plain. This is an old Gustomsky kit gun.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/Gostomsky%20trade%20gun%20001_zps4mb3y01z.jpg) (http://http)

When I decided to build a 12ga turkey gun I chose an English fowler because of the extra bling.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20006_zpspbh7e0rl.jpg) (http://http)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20002_zpssg7infha.jpg) (http://http)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20004_zpso6yntzge.jpg) (http://http)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20005_zpsbr1ekhfy.jpg) (http://http)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/English%20Fowler/fowler%20selfies%20003_zpsmr3nsmxh.jpg) (http://http)

I like bling apposed to plain.

Dang...!!!  What a beauty...!!!

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Hanshi on January 11, 2017, 04:53:47 PM

Those are really great looking guns.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: WonkoTheSane on January 14, 2017, 06:33:39 PM

Rob and Eric, nice looking smoothbores.  Thanks for posting the pics.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: larryp on January 14, 2017, 09:21:57 PM

My North Star West Chief's grade. .62 cal and 36" barrel.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/lwrnc1963/DSCN0124_zps70bd7b15.jpg) (http://http)

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Keb on January 15, 2017, 07:39:11 AM

A few guys seem to like the Northwest trade guns here. I have owned a few, at least 2 Curly's guns both in 20 gauge and built at least 5 others. They all slapped me in the face. All shot great but I couldn't take the punishment. I've settled on mostly fowling guns for what little shooting I still do.

This is the gun I built from surplus parts a while back. It holds and shoots pretty good.  It's a .54 cal by 46" Colerain octagon to round smoothbored barrel with a Chambers late Ketland lock with the tail ground off. Maple wood & brass fittings. No entry pipe or butt plate.

(http://www.choppix.com/keb/maple24-4.jpg)

(http://www.choppix.com/keb/maple24-5.jpg)

(http://www.choppix.com/keb/maple24-6.jpg)

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: amm1851 on January 15, 2017, 12:11:21 PM

That's a great looking smoothbore,  Keb. My first muzzleloader was a TC Hawken I built from a kit, and it slapped me in the face about evert third shot. Although I killed my first deer with it, I grew tired of the punishment and sold it. I found the Lyman GPR and the Deerstalker fit me better. As for the Northwest trade gun, I have a Caywood that I have put close to a thousand shots through,  and it has never hurt me. I would like to shoot a Tulle someday; I find the stock design graceful and appealing.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: sse on January 15, 2017, 03:23:59 PM

Never had a gun of any kind hurt my face, so I'm curious to know what the heck the problem was...??!!

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: amm1851 on January 15, 2017, 05:05:02 PM

In my case, it was failing to get my cheek firmly planted on the stock. Partly poor shooting technique and partly ill-fitting stock design.  Hope that clears it up some.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: sse on January 15, 2017, 06:59:16 PM

Quote from: "amm1851"

In my case, it was failing to get my cheek firmly planted on the stock. Partly poor shooting technique and partly ill-fitting stock design.  Hope that clears it up some.

Thanks, something to look to look out for I guess.  I don't have as much shooting experience as some of you guys.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Keb on January 16, 2017, 08:34:09 AM

My problem with the northwest guns is not enough drop. So I have to get right down on them to look down the barrel. That just happens to hit me right on the cheek bone. That along with using a lot of powder and a 20 gauge gun weighing a mere 5 1/2 or 6 lbs. doesn't help matters. I will just use better fitting gun today.

Title: Re: Musket or Fowler?
Post by: Hanshi on January 16, 2017, 04:03:56 PM

I've never had my face slapped by a gun; but I have had my feelings hurt, on occasion.