Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: jtwodogs on January 10, 2017, 01:54:42 PM

Title: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 10, 2017, 01:54:42 PM
Would an overwad or card or some type of buffer material, something between the powder and patched ball help accuracy in  a rifled  barrel, especially in heavy loads. I know that they use them in smooth bores. Please excuse my terminology but I think you'all know what I am talking about.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: RobD on January 10, 2017, 02:22:46 PM
i think you mean an over powder wad, such as used with bpcr lubed bullet cartridges.  i never tried that with a patched ball ... i guess because it seems redundant since the patching is the over powder wad and should fill up the rifling groove spaces.  other than that, dunno.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Riley/MN on January 10, 2017, 05:57:30 PM
I helped my buddy Gene get a TC going that he received "cuz somebody owed him money" - the bore was terrible, but we scrubbed & scrubbed. His best accuracy is now achieved with a wonderwad under the PRB. Wonder wads are lubricated, dense felt wad.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Hanshi on January 10, 2017, 05:58:52 PM
I found that in cases where the patches were burned or torn that an op wad often solved the problem.  I frequently, but not always, use an op wad in my rifles.  It does often help velocities to be more uniform and can even increase velocities on occasion.  But this is not absolute.  Some guns benefit and some don't.  Try an op wad and experiment so you can determine if they help your shooting.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Ironhand on January 10, 2017, 07:20:07 PM
I knew several bench rest shooters that used over powder wads.

Ironhand
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Maven on January 10, 2017, 07:25:08 PM
As Hanshi indicated, it is certainly worth trying.  Also, they certainly help with Maxi-Ball and REAL bullets in 1:48 or faster twist barrels, but those projectiles don't require a patch.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: RobD on January 10, 2017, 07:32:46 PM
from what i'm reading above, adding in an opw seems more like a fix for something kinda wrong, which is always a good thing.  8)
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 10, 2017, 08:20:00 PM
It shoots great with 90 grains of 3f goex. Just wondering if I could up my load with 2f and a wad.
While I am at: The velocity the same grain for grain with 3f and 2f? I guess I am asking is it  a little faster with 90 grains of 3f then 90 grains of 2f?
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 11, 2017, 07:58:28 AM
I have some .72 cal wads from a shotgun I had, is there anyway I can cut a few of them down just to see if it works, short of a wad cutter.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Buzzard on January 11, 2017, 08:21:22 AM
Yes, twodogs, mostly with heavy loads in bores with deep rifleing, and/or thinner patching.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Eric Krewson on January 11, 2017, 09:35:56 AM
My .54 shoots (Rice barrel) a better group with a wool felt wad over the powder and has a sharper"crack" when it goes off, my .44 (Bill Large barrel) shoots through the same hole at 50 yards without a wool wad and scatters them all over the place with a felt wad, go figure.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 11, 2017, 10:55:04 AM
Is there a trick to cutting a .72 down to a .62 just to try and see if it helps?
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: sse on January 11, 2017, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: "jtwodogs"
It shoots great with 90 grains of 3f goex. Just wondering if I could up my load with 2f and a wad.
While I am at: The velocity the same grain for grain with 3f and 2f? I guess I am asking is it  a little faster with 90 grains of 3f then 90 grains of 2f?
Whatt is the caliber of the rifle?
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 11, 2017, 12:13:50 PM
.62
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: sse on January 11, 2017, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: "jtwodogs"
.62
Thanks, interesting.  Sounds like one heck of a rifle, not sure I've ever heard about a rifled bore that size.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 11, 2017, 12:58:38 PM
It is this one. Jim Chambers Flintlocks (http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles04.htm)
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: sse on January 11, 2017, 01:04:03 PM
Quote from: "jtwodogs"
It is this one. Jim Chambers Flintlocks (http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles04.htm)
Thanks, that's a lot of medicine for hunting critters.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: rollingb on January 11, 2017, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: "sse"
Quote from: "jtwodogs"
.62
Thanks, interesting.  Sounds like one heck of a rifle, not sure I've ever heard about a rifled bore that size.
Years ago, I built a rifle for a fella who got a rifled barrel from Don Getz,.... and it was either a .72 or .75 (can't remember for sure  :shock:  :rt th
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: amm1851 on January 11, 2017, 03:29:21 PM
Bigsmoke would probably call a .62 caliber a good plinking rifle!  :lol sign
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: amm1851 on January 11, 2017, 03:30:50 PM
If you're not in a rush, I could send you some .62 caliber wads I use in my smoothbore.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: sse on January 11, 2017, 03:58:57 PM
Quote from: "amm1851"
Bigsmoke would probably call a .62 caliber a good plinking rifle!  :shock:    :P
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Hank in WV on January 11, 2017, 05:13:32 PM
Quote from: "amm1851"
Bigsmoke would probably call a .62 caliber a good plinking rifle!  ;) .
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 11, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
Quote from: "amm1851"
If you're not in a rush, I could send you some .62 caliber wads I use in my smoothbore.

Not in a huge hurry, I would be glad to send you some .72 wads in trade if you need them.
I will pm you my addy.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: amm1851 on January 11, 2017, 08:18:27 PM
I will send you some .62 caliber wads in the next couple of days.  :)
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: tuscarora on January 12, 2017, 06:45:46 AM
oh boy ! a .62 cal with a rifled barrel, I think my heart rate just went up!
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: amm1851 on January 12, 2017, 11:52:24 AM
If you like .62 caliber rifles  (and who doesn't ), check out this beauty built by Don Bruton and owned by Wattlebuster.

viewtopic.php?t=18665#p177033 (http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18665#p177033)
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 12, 2017, 05:29:04 PM
I will echo someone else's post on that .62 "wow"
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Bigsmoke on January 12, 2017, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: "amm1851"
Bigsmoke would probably call a .62 caliber a good plinking rifle!  :lol sign

Well, in a word - yes.
That's about the size of it.
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: amm1851 on January 12, 2017, 07:58:32 PM
Quote from: "jtwodogs"
I will echo someone else's post on that .62 "wow"

I  am excited to say that he is building a southern style, .54 caliber rifle with hand forged iron furniture for me.   :happy
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: Bigsmoke on January 12, 2017, 08:12:57 PM
Here is another .62 cal rifled rifle.  That almost sounds redundant.  Better file that at the department of Redundancy Department.  Oh, stop it!!

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii161/bigsmoke72/IMG_5246.jpg) (http://http)

The rifling is one turn in 104 inches.  8 Lands and Grooves, about .008" deep.  The grooves are about twice as wide as the lands.

My target load was 135 grains of Ffg powder for "plinking" and 200 for more serious intentions.  Above 150 grains the patch would burn out as a result of the powder burn, so I started using lubed 20 gauge Cushion Wads from Blue and Gray (Ox Yoke).  That pretty much solved the problem.  I found that it would wipe and lubricate the bore, it would seal the barrel so the patches wouldn't get flame cut and it did increase velocity several fps.

By the way, with a full charge and shooting over a chronograph, with the Ffg powder I was getting about 1995 fps.  Pyrodex Select RS gave me about 2005 fps.

When I shot more reasonable loads, say under 150 grains, there was never a problem with flame cut patches.  When I say flame cut, I mean they looked more like charcloth.  With the cushion wads, I dare say one could pick up the patch off the ground and use it again.

Guess that's about all.

John
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: amm1851 on January 12, 2017, 10:23:10 PM
Nice looking rifle,  John. :)
Title: Re: Rifled load
Post by: jtwodogs on January 18, 2017, 05:31:36 PM
Well after spending the day at the range and playing with different loads including some with wads as buffers (Courtesy of amm1851) I ended my last shots with a 2 shot group at 63 yds. with 140 grains of 2f and a patched round ball.
(http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq103/jtwodogs/16142377_1289765777729287_356471937083125080_n1_zps51mlpgoo.jpg)