Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Ohio Joe on April 07, 2017, 03:22:48 PM
-
At least for 3+ decades I've used the old equal parts of, (Murphy's Oil Soap, 91% Alcohol, & Peroxide) as a cleaner and never had any trouble with it, but today (since I'm so low on it) I decided to try and create a new cleaner I've been thinking about for some time now. My wife and I went up to the new "Dollar Store" that opened here less then a week ago (neat place by the way and glad to have one handy and close), and I picked up a gallon of the cheapest Windshield Washer Fluid they had and a 32 ounce bottle of 91% Alcohol...
I mixed the 32 ounces of Alcohol with 64 ounces of cheap Windshield Washer Fluid, and now all I have to do is test it. I see no reason it won't work, and I kind'a recall reading somewhere that some folks use the Windshield Washer Fluid as a cleaner and patch lube in their muzzle loading rifles.
Any of you have any experience with this?
-
A few years ago I wandered into the kitchen and LO and BEHOLD! BP cleaner was coming out out the faucet! :hairy
-
I've heard of using windshield washer fluid before but not mixed with alcohol. I'd bet it will work just fine, but I agree with Hanshi, plain cool water works just fine for me.
-
Oh, I don't disagree on the plain ol' cold water at all. Used it many times. :bl th up
-
I tried using a water/rubbing alcohol mix, and the solution dried out the tips of my fingers so much they cracked and bled. Now I just use a mix of Murphy's oil soap and water, and I suspect plain water would work as well. But, we black powder shooters love to tinker with lubes, cleaners, and so on, so have at it! :bl th up
-
I often use WW if I'm swabbing the bbl at the range, and I use it to do a field cleaning when I finish firing for the day (a regular cleaning when I get back in). I sometimes add a little bit of alcohol just for its help in drying. This all works fine for me. I don't use this for a "real" cleaning.
Hank, you may not have known it, but IIRC you used some of the WW mix when we were in Indiana one year.
Al
-
I tried using a water/rubbing alcohol mix, and the solution dried out the tips of my fingers so much they cracked and bled. Now I just use a mix of Murphy's oil soap and water, and I suspect plain water would work as well. But, we black powder shooters love to tinker with lubes, cleaners, and so on, so have at it! :bl th up
I hadn't thought about this. If I notice my fingers starting to dry out, I'll cut the Alcohol with more washer fluid. Thanks for the heads up, amm1851! :bl th up
-
ww fluid, soap and water, hot water, hydrogen peroxide + water, moose milk, etc etc etc ... all work just fine for cleaning out bp residue. some might even work "faster" than others and that's their claim to "better".
however, any and all concoctions *MAY* have an effect on the metal parts.
plain ol' tepid tap water has never ever failed me in nearly 60 years of messing with these smokepoles. i see no reason to gamble on concoctions.
i will add but one change i made many decades ago - when leaving the range or field after some shooting, i'll spritz the barrel and ignition system with some variance of water soluble oil + water (aka "moose milk"), using a small "airline friendly" spray bottle, and run a wet patch of that down the barrel. this is to help insure the metal is reasonably protected during the sometimes long drive back to the ranch for a proper cleaning with ... yup, plain ol' H2O :*:
-
I often use WW if I'm swabbing the bbl at the range, and I use it to do a field cleaning when I finish firing for the day (a regular cleaning when I get back in). I sometimes add a little bit of alcohol just for its help in drying. This all works fine for me. I don't use this for a "real" cleaning.
Hank, you may not have known it, but IIRC you used some of the WW mix when we were in Indiana one year.
Al
I usually carry a small (don't tell anyone) plastic spray bottle in my shooting bag , as when I'm shooting in those hot months like July through September out here where I live, I sometimes can't come up with enough spit to swab my bore when loading gets tough. Got'a save that spit for my shootin' patches.
Now I might be able to open a small eyeglass cleaning business on the shootin' line with this mixture??? :laffing
-
i gave up on spit patches, along with all the fluid concoctions of LVL and moose milk, etc.
been using patch strips heat saturated with gato feo bpcr grease lube - ah, mo' bettah in every way. :bl th up
-
Several BP trap shooters I knew used that combo, in various concentrations, to soak fiber wads during competition. Really seemed to keep the fouling down but the alcohol would evaporate if left out too long.
IronHand
-
I can't help but see the irony in traditional bp shooters relentless pursuit of modern cleaning or lube solutions. It reminds me of all the city folk who move to the country to get away from the city, and then proceed to change the country they moved to into the city they left. :Doh!
If you think about it, isn' that what old Daniel Boone and the rest of the frontiersmen did? Its a human thang I guess.
Hey I ain't judging-- I might use water to clean my bp guns, and feel really good about myself for it... but I have no pangs of guilt when I use WD40 after the bore is shiny clean... We all have a bit of hypocrisy in our lives. (Mines just better than yours is all) :laffing
-
Just plain cold (or tepid) water is really so boring
water water water water water water water water water
-
A few years ago I wandered into the kitchen and LO and BEHOLD! BP cleaner was coming out out the faucet! :hairy
:lol sign
-
Best BP Cleaner ever!
Water is great, fairly easy to come by, and really cheap.
Windshield Washer / Fluid should work very well.
And, what I'm going to tell you about is nowhere near being traditional or have any historic value. It is strictly what it is, a great lube and cleaner for both smokeless and BP.
I have used Ed's Red for better'n 30 years, and it is simply the best stuff I have ever used....period.
One can clean good at the range, and forget it for weeks on end with out any bad effects whatsoever! We all should know This is definitely not recommended!
But should you have 3 grandkids in that 20 year old bracket, you can end up being very thankful you did use this stuff....How about season to season? Yep, you guessed it, been there done that too. AND, yes my grandson is still alive and well.
Easy to make, I recommend Gallon Glass "jugs", and a Gallon will last you forever! And your bratty grandkids if you've got 'em coming and going at your house too.
Be sure to keep it off the wood! I've always heard & read that but I know that as long as I've used this stuff I had to get it on the wood a time or two...if I did, I can't see it.
http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9
CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner
1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS
#64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or
equivalent, (aka "Varsol")
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to
substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)
You can make it for somewhere around $30.00 +/- per gallon I think that's about what I had in the last batch.... (less, if you leave out the Anhydrous Lanolin...one of my daughters is Pharmacist and gets a good deal from the distributors, so I always use it, and I use it in my Patch Lube too)
Or you can buy it for about $15 shipped, in little 4oz bottles.
http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/solvents-degreasers/bore-solvents/ed-s-red-bore-cleaner-prod19936.aspx
Uncle Russ...
-
i try to gravitate towards "the simple", which sometimes ain't so simple, and then i ditch that and attempt to get even simpler.
"fresh" bp residue is readily tepid water soluble. that's a fact. it might take as long as 5 minutes left in the touch hole plugged barrel to work its magic. a concoction cleaner might do it 5 seconds. that's the beauty of most concoction bp cleaners - speed and efficiency of use.
"not so fresh" bp residue is a horse of another color. that can get dissolved with plain water AND a buncha patched jagged elbow grease. a good concoction will clean that out in, oh, about 15 seconds.
"not cleaned for a day or more" can be a nightmare that plain water won't fix easily - if at all. this is where a concoction cleaner is a must-have. hey, why in heck didja wait so long? you must have a death wish for yer gun. :o ;D
this is why i "moose milk" before leaving the range/woods, and follow up with plain water whence back at the ranch. if i'm smart. then i don't need no concoction cleaners. 8)
-
A few years ago I wandered into the kitchen and LO and BEHOLD! BP cleaner was coming out out the faucet! :hairy
Well I was reading this post and got curious and started looking around the kitchen for ingredients for a concoction and found out I have one of those faucets that spew BP cleaner too. :Doh! :hairy :lol sign
Dave
-
Yep, gotta keep 'em clean.
this is why i "moose milk" before leaving the range/woods
Same here Rob, I always run some patches before leaving the Range/Woods.
Nothing wrong with water - provided it's not ran through a water softener, (like I have) as all I would be doing is introducing salt into my bore and other metal parts. (Natural well water - Good water). (City water - wonder how many chemicals are in that?)
So I kind'a figure I have $4.75 tied up in at least 2+ years of cleaner. Potentially far cheaper then the results of introducing water with salt in - into the bore's of my muzzleloading firearms. :shake
-
yes, good point about water softeners. :bl th up
that's really the only caveat i can think of with regards to water - if it's potable, it should be ok.
or a fancy water can be used - the distilled variety. 8)
-
yes, good point about water softeners. :bl th up
that's really the only caveat i can think of with regards to water - if it's potable, it should be ok.
or a fancy water can be used - the distilled variety. 8)
Yes, very true. And that fancy water can cost a lot more then a gallon of cheap ww fluid, ounce per ounce... ;)
-
I purchased some of Fletcher's Old Thunder lube and solvent, and found it to work very well on the button rifling in my pistol barrel, but not that well on the cut rifling of my rifle. It worked OK on the latter, but not much better than other concoctions. Mostly, as I said, I stick with a little Murphy's oil soap mixed with water for cleaning, and Ballistol or Remington Gun Oil for the final coat.
-
A few years ago I wandered into the kitchen and LO and BEHOLD! BP cleaner was coming out out the faucet! :hairy
Well I was reading this post and got curious and started looking around the kitchen for ingredients for a concoction and found out I have one of those faucets that spew BP cleaner too. :Doh! :hairy :lol sign
Dave
NO KIDDING, it's the same at my house too, AND....sometimes it falls from the sky! :laffing
A single drop of liquid dishwashing liquid I learned from a forum member breaks up the surface tension of the water, if you think you need it. Heat the water up if you have a wax/fat or just fat residue from the bullet lube. Soap and water on really dirty barrels such as those used to fire blanks for civilian tourists at the historic site.
Some like to use a little alcohol to dry the last moisture from the barrel. Others use WD-40. Then a good rust preventative.
LD
-
I too tried the murphy's,water & alcohol mix up until it splashed on my glasses and ate a spot off of the coating!
I did some research and murphy's isn't as friendly as one may think, Alcohol evaporates this I knew from fuel mixtures.
Working with metals and water treatment/corrosion preventive materials/oils/lubes/compounds/aircraft and industrial boiler cleaners.
I now use water, with a tad of GUNK CS mixture. It works on all I clean, is metal friendly , doesn't eat up lens coatings. Washes up with water.
I don't know what is in windshield washer fluid. I've had gun shops give me bottles of lightly tinted blue mixes with their shop labels on them.
-
what's GUNK CS?
-
There is a Gunk SC aka gunk super concentrate sometimes used to clean aircraft engines.
IIRC it's a bit pricey.
-
There is a Gunk SC aka gunk super concentrate sometimes used to clean aircraft engines.
IIRC it's a bit pricey.
That's why tap water (okay, then, WW fluid too) is such a good idea.
-
Here in the UK some black powder riflemen have used car window wash for years ,myself I still prefer hot soapy water '
Feltwad
-
I been thinkin of trying some or that hand sanitizer next time I get to go out and shoot. It should work good for a
between shot patch or two down the barrel. Dries quick too! Anyone tried it yet. I believe it mostly alcohol.
Little squeeze bottle it comes in a easy fit in possible bag and its cheap.
-
There is a Gunk SC aka gunk super concentrate sometimes used to clean aircraft engines.
IIRC it's a bit pricey.
hmmm,,, I've always wished my balls could fly straighter.... :Doh! I couldn't help it.... :laffing
Feltwad, I've seen several post over the years of folks using the Windshield Washer Fluid, and after using it myself (now), I can see why they like it. I added 1/4 alcohol to my first gallon after cutting the WWF back 1/4th gallon, but I really don't think I even needed to do that.
If I didn't have a water softner I'd probably still be using water as well. :bl th up
-
Shameless Plug for Ol' Thunder and Just Good Lube..... I tried it about 25 years ago when I got some
from John Shorb when the Cascade Mountain Men Trade show was still in Enumclaw. I bought a bunch
for my Boy Scout ML program. A few years later John asked me, and I bought the company. Have not
had the time to promote much will all the work I have, but I will put it up against anything out there. Ol'
Thunder is water based and Just Good Lube Beeswax based. Ohio Joe - PM me your address and I will
send you a sample of each. Then tell folks what you think.
-
I told a fellow the other day that prefer Dihydrogen Monoxide, sometimes mixed with a little soap, but usually plain or heated. :laffing
LD
-
Please don't think poorly of me, but while cleaning my gun with dihydrogen monoxide I will sneek a swig of it when nobody is watching--- its tasty ice cold and an excellent thirst quencher.
-
You need to be very, very careful with dihydrogen monoxide.
Check out this website http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html)
-
If you're going to use alcohol use 'Denatured Alcohol'!
Regular alcohol contains 20% WATER!
I use machinists' oil at 1 part oil to 5 parts water!
Never have had a rust problem!
-
That's what I use, the Denatured Alcohol. :bl th up
-
I have never used Denatured Alcohol in the past, but I do have some and I will try it.
If my health holds up I plan on spending a lot of time on the range this year... :pray:
Uncle Russ...
-
It probably should be mentioned at this point that each year there are many deaths directly traceable to dihydrogen monoxide. Small children are at particular risk of death from being around it. I advise caution around large quantities of the stuff. :hairy
-
really, all that's needed is plain old water.
i know, i'm a broken record in a never ending loop on this "new black powder cleaning idea" thread, but once you achieve a clean barrel, chamber and lock by using whatever concoctions are in the current vogue, from that point on using plain tepid water and nothing else is all that's required (along with yer diligence of use).
-
I use straight dihydrogenoxide (aka H2O) for cleaning but highly recommend adding a generous amount of distilled alcohol (corn based) and prefer it be aged 8-12 years in carmelizex white oak barrels. 👍👍
-
I use straight dihydrogenoxide (aka H2O) for cleaning but highly recommend adding a generous amount of distilled alcohol (corn based) and prefer it be aged 8-12 years in carmelizex white oak barrels. 👍👍
And that H2O be in a frozen form, no doubt?
-
Yea. Bad to drink them alcohol straight. BUT remember ice melts so then you have bourbon AND water 😆😃😃
-
Like many here, have tried a variety of mixtures. My go-to ends up being Simple Green diluted in hot water. Then I use one of the store-bought products for cleaning the drum & nipple, areas surrounding. After that clean patch out moisture, then several patches of 91% rubbing alcohol, followed by a few more dry patches. Then I let her sit there at least a day before introducing any preventative, which is usually bore butter.
I always have trouble at rondy's where I can't do a good cleaning right away. Another thing I learned is that whatever substance is used should thereafter be cleaned and flushed out real well with fresh clean water. Right or wrong, I attributed early rust to not getting all that cleaning substance out of there and it ends up collecting moisture, leading to rust.
One guy from Claude's old forum was highly respected and pursued accuracy at a level far exceeding most. His go-to cleaner was Dixie Gun Works black powder cleaner and solvent, since he said it contained cleaner plus a rust inhibitor. It was not overly expensive and comes in little bottles, he would buy by the case. I did try it and thought it worked pretty well.
-
Here is a link to an exhaustive test done on 46 different rust inhibitors,.......
http://www.dayattherange.com/?page_id=3667
After reviewing the results of this test, it looks as though I'll be gettin' rid of my Rem-Oil and trying either Frog Lube, or WD 40 Specialist. :bl th up
-
That's sure a lot to choose from!
-
as expected, the "what's the best bp cleaner" saga will continue forever and ever, in an endless loop that starts with water-only people and ends with the space-age-gobble-dee-gook people, and then 'round back again. i've been Extensively through the gamut of chemical concoctions and procedures and have pretty much come back to how it was done back in the 18th century, and even before then.
i will not use hot water as that only preps the steel to accept chemicals into it's nooks and crannies. better to take time to allow tepid water to do its most natural thing - dissolve bp residue.
i will not use soap because it adds rather than takes away. i've totally given up on LVL and others because of the residue they leave. i've witnessed this with all my black powder powered guns, from muzzleloader to cartridge. it made a mess of my revolvers, to the point of not being able to chamber cartridges. anyone need 2/3rds gallon or original formula lehigh valley? please be my guest!
the only addition to water that i now use is ballistol, which is a water soluble mineral oil.
the only thing i'll do to any barrel (inside and out), lock, action, gun metal, after the bp cleaning process is wipe down with any light oil, for metal preservation.
a few dayze ago i pulled out the .40, .54 and .62 for a check after all being dormant from late fall 'til now (gettin antsy for spring shootin). they were all cared for last year via the methods previously described. the bores and metal are all perfectly clean.
-
DGW Black Solve (https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/2665/category_id/594/category_chain/578,346,594/product_name/LA0202+Dixie+Gun+Works+Black+Solve)
-
WOW -- I read through this series of post and it got my head spinning however I managed to find my water faucet and give it a big hug. :hairy
Dave
-
That's sure a lot to choose from!
:laffing Just choose between the 2 that gave the best protection against rust. :bl th up
I've always cleaned my muzzleloaders with water, then wiped'em dry and gave'em a final wipe-down (inside'n out) with Rem-Oil, and had excellent results (with no rusting),... but if there's something out there that proves itself even better than Rem-Oil, I'm gonna show my "smokers" how much I love'em and try it. ;)
-
WOW -- I read through this series of post and it got my head spinning however I managed to find my water faucet and give it a big hug. :hairy
Dave
:hairy
Dave my friend, ya gotta way with words....
Water is for sure your friend, as long as you make it go away after its done its thing.
Uncle Russ...
-
It was me that got this whole thread started,,, sorry.... :*:
I would use water but I have a water softener and I just won't introduce a liquid salt cleaner into my barrels. I've settled on windshield washer fluid from the Dollar Store and it works just fine. At Rondy I can use creek water. I like my Birch-Wood-Casey Sheath Oil as a lube. I don't experience any rust (inside or out) with my metal parts.
What ever you find that works for you, I'd say keep it. :hairy
-
No problem. Everyone gets to do what ever floats their boat...... :toast
Dave
-
What ever you find that works for you, I'd say keep it.
now ya tell us
-
What ever you find that works for you, I'd say keep it.
now ya tell us
:Doh! Sorry... My wife also tells me I never tell her anything... Truth is, I can't... She's always talking and I can't get a word in edge-wise... It's true! :laffing
-
What ever you find that works for you, I'd say keep it.
now ya tell us
:Doh! Sorry... My wife also tells me I never tell her anything... Truth is, I can't... She's always talking and I can't get a word in edge-wise... It's true! :laffing
Well, well, well.....you just wait until Cindy hears about THIS!
A little hush-money just might be in order, wouldn't ya think???
:lol sign
Uncle Russ...
-
What ever you find that works for you, I'd say keep it.
now ya tell us
:Doh! Sorry... My wife also tells me I never tell her anything... Truth is, I can't... She's always talking and I can't get a word in edge-wise... It's true! :laffing
Well, well, well.....you just wait until Cindy hears about THIS!
A little hush-money just might be in order, wouldn't ya think???
:lol sign
Uncle Russ...
Well,,, yes... But I might be safe for a little while longer. You see, she's still talkin'... I can't even find out what's for supper... :laffing :shake
-
Joe, don'tcha get it?
Ya gotta understand yer bride better!
She wants you to take her out for Dinner.
Heck, Ray Charles can see that!
A very wise old man once told me that's there was two ways to handle them girl folk, and neither one of 'em worked.
So there ya go.
Take that beautiful bride of yours to Dinner, pour a nice red wine down her, and I betcha she talks yer ear off.
You might not care much fer what she has to say, but I bet you two will be talking before ya know it.
I read that in Chapter 2 of Al Bateman's "Guide to understanding your Bride".
Uncle Russ...
-
Joe, don'tcha get it?
Ya gotta understand yer bride better!
She wants you to take her out for Dinner.
Heck, Ray Charles can see that!
A very wise old man once told me that's there was two ways to handle them girl folk, and neither one of 'em worked.
So there ya go.
Take that beautiful bride of yours to Dinner, pour a nice red wine down her, and I betcha she talks yer ear off.
You might not care much fer what she has to say, but I bet you two will be talking before ya know it.
I read that in Chapter 2 of Al Bateman's "Guide to understanding your Bride".
Uncle Russ...
If it's Al approved - then it must be good advice! :bl th up
Actually I was a thinking that since we won't have the grand kids this weekend,,, I'm a gonna see if she'd like to go bowling? She likes to bowl, and so do I. We're not any good at it, but we sure make a lot of others look extremely good! (and she'll have a whole bunch of folks to talk to) :lol sign
-
Just good old water and a bit of ivory soap for me :bl th up
-
Something you may wish to keep in mind if you put hydrogen peroxide in your barrel.
I have used it to brown barrels before.
Think about that.
-
i use a secret sauce concoction for cleaning all my bp guns, flntlocks and cartridge. it's too good for me to keep to myself so, here it is, dihydrogen-oxide. the cool thing about it is it's found most everywhere and it's ... free. no shipping, no hazmat, no local-state-fed taxation, either. there's only ONE catch - you gotta use it as soon as possible.
if you drove to the range, woods walk, hunt venue, after yer last bp gun discharge and yer getting ready for that long road trip back to the ranch, just wet down the barrel with something that'll keep the bp residue soft, without promoting corrosion/rust. water soluble oil in a 1:6 mix with dihydrogen-oxide (aka "moose milk") is all that's needed. yep, ya gotta buy that oil, sorry, dunno where to git it free.
oh, and after reaming out the barrel with that sloppy moose milk, leave the ramrod with wet patch nestled in the chamber. OH! and fer you folks with them offshore smokepoles what got them dang "patent breeches", BEFORE running down that patched bore jag, drape a patch over a .32 brush (bronze or nylon, don't matter) and git 'er sloppy moose milk wet and ream out that ante-chamber, THEN proceed with the moose milk patched jag on the bore itself.
back at the ranch, just use plain tepid water to pull out the softened bp residue. goes purty quick, just use patched jags and that secret dihydrogen-oxide stuff. if you have a hooked breech half stock gun, better yet to pull off the barrel and dunk the ignition end in a pail of dihydr ... oh phooey, lemme shorten that to H2O :) ... and use the patched jag as a hydraulic pump to suck in clean WATER and pump 'er out. when the patching looks *reasonably* clean (it will NEVER get "perfectly clean") send down the drying patches (if you have a patent breech, dry that out first) and then an oily patch fo finish. locks should be pulled, dunked in plain water while ya work on the barrel, then scrubbed out with a toothbrush (no, not yer wife's - made that mistake only once!) rinse off, dry off, wipe down with an oily rag - i use a needle oiler for a *sparse* drop to all moving parts and wipe off any excess oil.
just to be sure all is well with yer beloved muzzleloader, give the barrel a check the next day or two later.
the absolute KEY to using just plain water for bp residue cleaning is to never allow yer barrel(s) to become hard caked with residue or worse yet get corrosion or rusting. be kind to yer smokepoles and they'll in turn be kind to you. once you've "let a barrel go" then yer forced to drag out all those nasty concoctions and spend a lotta time and elbow grease for a lotta unnecessary work.
:*: