Traditional Muzzleloading Association
The Center of Camp => The Campfire => Topic started by: Winter Hawk on January 01, 2018, 10:30:28 PM
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I borrowed Louis L'Amour's "How the West Was Won" from the library. I hadn't read it in probably 30 years and Grit magazine had an excerpt from it which whet my appetite to reread the whole book. In the opening scene, first chapter, first few pages, mountain man Linus Rawlings comes upon a bunch of Indians attacking some trappers as he's leaving the mountains to take his furs back East. He unlimbers his rifle, shoots one Indian, swings and shoots at another (misses), then shoots at a third. All from horseback. Now later on he gets married, has kids and one of the boys and he join the army to fight in the civil war. This means that it's probably in the mid to late 1830s when we first meet him and he is shooting at the Utes. The wording is such that it sounds like he has a repeating rifle, not a muzzle loader. This was something I would not have expected from L'Amour; he prided himself on being accurate.
Has anyone else read this and come to the same conclusion I did? I remember finding a technical error on a firearm in another of his books but that was 30+ years ago and I don't recall what it was.
I can't reread it again because I returned the book to the library.
~Kees~
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Sounds fishy to me,maybe he had a swivel barrel riffle? :bl th up
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Well, lets see..... I would assume (without reading the book of course) if the Arthur does not clearly state a particular firearm, (or firearms if we are to assume he might be carrying two pistols and a rifle) then yes,,, it doesn't sound quite right to me either.
'Course, I never read the book, but I did watch the movie several times and unfortunately that part of the book is not, and isn't followed in the movie...
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Well, I thought that might be an enjoyable read, so I checked out our local library. Good news is that the video was available, as were the recordings of the TV series, but the book itself? Not to be had. Oh well.
I find it interesting that many authors have no clue about firearms, what they are, what they do and how they work and where they fit historically. It really irks me sometimes. If you call them on it, some will treat it well, and others will get upset.
John
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Is the book/movie based on the, "How The West Was Won" (with Jimmy Stewart and an all-star cast),,, or is it based on the one with James Arness?
The Jimmy Stewart movie IMHO picks up in the 1840's Oregon Trail days, while the James Arness mini series picks up/starts out in the very late 1850's/early 1860's before the Civil War.
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I am sure the movies were inspired by the book because many of Louis L'Amour's books were made into movies over the years. He was known to be accurate with geography in his books having traveled extensively and had an enviable library of journals and firsthand accounts, but he was first and foremost a writer of historically inspired fiction & old west romance. His technical knowledge about firearms was debatable. He often added obscure and rare guns into his tales but did not get overly descriptive of them. He also freely interjected his own "new-age" philosophy into his characters that got more strange and mystical the older he got (he died in the 1980s). I have read every one of his books and have my favorites. He was a very interesting person. I particularly enjoy his early magazine short stories set in the 1920-40s in exotic locations including asia and the far Pacific. (In his youth he was a merchant marine among many other things).
I believe I learned to read by reading his books and on sleepy holidays at home I will still crack open one of my favorites and re-read them. His prose and descriptive language reads easy and flows into your mind and paints a vivid picture. He was rather old fashioned and did not add erotic details nor was he overly gruesome. I liked that about his writing. His tales were often moral, but centered on revenge and good men overcoming evil men. He was a true American and lived by a code that is mostly forgotten today. Heres to ya Louis! "Yol Bolsun!" (May there be a road)
He wrote books around rare multi-shot Italian flintlock pistols, early revolving flintlock pistols, The Ferguson Rifle, The Walsh Navy revolver, Joslyn Carbine and the turret rifle of the gold rush times, to name a few. And of course Sharps, Winchester Lever guns, Colt's and S&W revolvers. cool stuff man.
Ken
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Good comments on him, Ken.
I also tire rather rapidly about erotic novels, books that overdose on foul language, and books seemingly written in blood rather than ink.
I reckon all of the above have their time and place, I just rather it not be in my place on my time.
As I understand it, this stuff is written to appeal to the young crowd. Sorry to say, it's been far more than a couple of ice cream seasons since I was called young. So, there ya go.
Another writer that I enjoy along Louis Lamore's lines was Zane Grey. I used to vacation in Scott Bar (my grandfather's home) in very northern California. In the old homestead, there were three or four of his novels and I would always re-read them when I got there. Another was Up Front by Bill Mauldin. When I was through with those, it was off to the Post Office across the street to check out the books in the library, located in the PO. Warm fuzzy memories of times past.
John
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I have read quite a bit of Zane Grey as well as Max Brand. Grey was similar to Louis L'Amour in a lot of ways, (he wrote a book about the Rev War era if I recall). But Max Brand was different--he was especially fanciful in his western depictions and did not even pretend to be historically accurate... I think he actually lived in Germany. Hey, he was fun to read though.
One of my favorite pulp fiction books is by Loren T Estleman Called "The Hider." Loved that book about an old Buffalo Hunter and a young man hunting one of the last wild buffalo. What a great book that is-- I always thought it would make for a fun movie. Sam Ellott as the old buff hunter, would be perfect. Another good read is by Lou Cameron called Cascade Ghost. Cameron wrote another called "The Spirit Horses" about the ill fated US Camel Corps in the 1830s. It too would have made for a good movie.
I have a pretty big library of dog eared paperbacks... I ate em up as a kid. Also read Sci-fi and Fantasy. It was common for me to read a book through in one day. I remember having eye strain so bad I could hardly see sometimes because I would read from morning til night on a saturday...
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Now you got me going Bigsmoke! A great read on the American Indian Wars of course is Terry C Johnston's Plainsmen Series. He also had a Mountain man series of books too which are good. Another favorite writer is Bernard Cornwell with his Napoleonic War Series about a fictional Richard Sharpe of the 95th Rifles. These are all very well researched and they often site non-fiction sources that are also great to read.
K
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Terry Johnson was an interesting guy. I greatly enjoyed his books on the Indian Wars. I have been told that he would spend quite a bit of time in the area where he was writing about and then he would go home and construct somewhat of a diorama of the place so that as his characters moved from place to place, he could track it and make sure it was accurate.
Of course, there was the original series he wrote about mountain men and such. I went on a tour with him once that was based on that series, went to several of the original rendezvous sites, etc. It was probably a mistake as he got pretty pissed off with me for calling him out on several mistakes he made writing it. The one I remember best is when I asked him if he had ever actually started a fire with flint and steel? In one of his books he referenced getting the birds nest burning good then removing the charcloth. Must have done that with his asbestos fingers? His rather flimsy excuse was that the old mountain men had probably started 10 times the fires than I had, and they knew how to do it. :Doh!
At least he didn't have the bushway's pistol a Glock 17.
He died a premature death, for sure.
The only book I read through in one day was the Exorcist. That was one heck of a read. I also put a pretty big dent in The Godfather in one day. Finished it the next day, though. Now, I don't even try to do that. My attention span doesn't seem to be what it used to be.
John
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AxelP, I've only read one book by; Max Brand, (This Old Bull), and I really enjoyed it. If memory serves (as I bet it was 30 years ago or more) it was about Buffalo Bill and Wild Bill Hickok. It was hard to put that book down at the time. Can't say as I recall reading any of his other books, and I have quite the collection of books to read in my retirement next year (at least that's always been my plan). :shake
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Is the book/movie based on the, "How The West Was Won" (with Jimmy Stewart and an all-star cast),,, or is it based on the one with James Arness?
I don't know. I'm not even sure which came first, the chicken.... no, no, that's the wrong book. ;D
I mean to say, I don't know if the book is based on the screenplay, or the movie on the book. I've seen the Jimmy Stewart movie, long ago but I don't remember it following the L'Amour book at all. It seems more like the book I was asking about where the protagonist was a lad, and he was the protege of a mountain man who was leading a wagon train to Oregon. Had a swivel breach double barrel rifle IIRC with which he impressed a bunch of Indians when he could fire off more than one shot. Maybe that's where L'Amour got the multiple shot sequence in "How the West Was Won"!
~Kees~
Okay, now I have a hold on several Terry C. Johnston books at the library, just to see if I read any of them or not. Thanks for the heads-up!
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AxelP, your description of Louis L'Amour's writing as........."His prose and descriptive language reads easy and flows into your mind and paints a vivid picture." is very accurate in my opinion.
I have also read all of his western books, and I really enjoyed them.
I recently sold a leather bound 23 volume library on the Sacketts just to make room for something else as they were only gathering dust.
If memory serves me right I paid either $125 or $150 for those books back around 1970, I sold them for $25 just a few months ago....later i was informed they worth 10x what I sold them for.
Of course I had a favorite, it was in plain ol' paper back, but I read it until it fell apart.
The story was about a pilot in Serbia or Russia, IIRC, but for the life of me I can't recall the name of that book.
Old age can sometimes be very unkind.
Anyway, good posts' and very interesting topic.
Uncle Russ...
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"Last of the Breed" Yeah that was a good one! Took place in the USSR Siberia. He was a native american indian US pilot, escaping Soviet capture during he Cold War by following the historic route his ancient ancestors did.
I just read online that Lou Cameron was involved in writing the screenplay for the TV Show How the West was run. I am not sure it was connected to L'Amour at all.
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I have a lot of favorites from L'Amour. I usually like the more unusual story lines. Many of my favorites I have read over a dozen times. Lando, The Ferguson Rifle, Tucker, Sackett Brand, The Broken Gun, Fair Blows the Wind, Treasure Mountain, Jubal Sackett, Silver Canyon, To Tame a Land, Sackett's Land, Walking Drum, The Comstock Lode, Californios...There are so many. His short story books are really great too. Yondering is one of my faves.
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John that's cool that you went on one of Terry Johnston's speaking tours. I always thought that would be fun. I never met the man personally, but I did correspond with him back and forth by letters (before the internet). We had an interesting dialogue to be sure. I wrote to him at first intending to just tell him how much I liked his books but also because I was bothered by a certain direction that the Plainsmen Series was going. About 3-4 books in, I noticed that the series started getting rather--- uhmm explicit?? This was a long time before such explicit entertainment like Deadwood etc... I truly felt that this detracted from the series and I still do...so I told him so. He wrote me back a rather scathing letter comparing me to an old woman and that I should stop reading his books. That this explicit sexual detail was a tool to keep the reader's attention... etc... LOL.
We wrote back and forth a few times more and I think he came to a better understanding of why I felt the way I did-- I hope so, and I certainly learned why he added that information to his books. I think we both walked away satisfied. And I noticed that the last books in the series were more tempered in that regard-- Not sure it was because of me or not--probably not.
I was very sad when I heard he had lost his fight with cancer. I sure enjoyed his writing. The history and his research was really good in spite of the few practical errors. I missed the char cloth reference wherever it was... but you were right in calling that out. He sure had a gift of telling a gripping tale. Both he and Bernard Cornwell have similar writing styles. I talked via email to Bernard Cornwell a few times too. He does not take himself quite as seriously as Terry Johnston did, and I enjoyed our conversations back and forth better I think.
Ken
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Joe, you said
and I have quite the collection of books to read in my retirement next year (at least that's always been my plan).
I got a real chuckle out of that. Reason being, back in the mid 70's I got caught up in the Old West series put out by Time Life. I bought every single last one of the series to have something to read after we moved to Idaho. Evidently I was thinking about being snowed in at our cabin in the woods or some such thing. Just a little advance planning?
Then reality hit, we invested in a pair of snowmobiles and who had time to sit and read in the winter? Not us, that's for sure. From first snow, we were out in the mountains on Saturday and Sunday, plus after work at least two nights a week, sometimes three. Now up to present day, I have been retired a little over three years now, and have I even pulled out one of those, or any of the two big bookcases that are jammed with books? NO, I have not. So, bottom line is I have this full set of very nice books in my bookcase that have only been opened enough to flip through the pages and then put away. No idea why I am even keeping them anymore.
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The biggest deterrent to me reading more is that my eyes have had too many birthdays and I am still not used to reading thru glasses. I am getting better at it but I cannot sit and read for very long anymore. I end up falling asleep. I am not too ancient yet at 54, but man, my eyes are not what they used to be. It seems like the more I am out in the woods, and away from this computer the better my eyes get though so your response is encouragement to get out in the woods more. I dont have snow mobiles but I do have several pairs of snowshoes and I try to use them when we get snow up here. My dog loves to try and stand on them when we are in deep drifts... funny.
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Eyes? OK, here's one about eyes.
In 1992 I went to get my driver's license renewed. The gal behind the desk had me read the chart, and frankly, most everything was kind of blury. She, being the comedienne she was, inquired if I wore glasses. I replied No, I do not. To which she came back with, Well sir, if you want to get a driver's license you will. So I did. It was amazing how much better I could see targets, too. Fast forward 18 years. I had to get a California license. Went down to DMV and they did an eye check on me - no problem, was not required to wear glasses. I had to renew in person last August. Went through the same drill about reading the chart. This very nice lady asks if I wear contact lenses. Nope, I replied. To which she responded, My goodness, for a man your age, you have very good eyesight. Well, thanks, I guess.
However, I have found that it is more comfortable to read with some dime store reading glasses than without. I also find computer work to be easier. Was no problem getting used to them.
I know what you mean about Johnson getting more explicit with his writings. Seems like a few friends and myself took to calling his stuff Prairie Porn. I also saw no need for that, his stories were draw enough for me without putting that stuff in it. And yes, you are right about his temperament. He did not take kindly to anyone criticizing his writing. Pretty narrow minded, I thought. The trip I took with him had all the potential to be wonderful, but as it worked out, not so much. I wound up selling a nice rifle that I wish I had back to finance part of the trip. Bad deal. Also a set of 4 chrome wheels and brand new tires, plus an Olds manifold and 3 carburetor intake setup. Not worth it at all.
John
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LOL its strange but the more time I spend away from computers and tv the better my eyes seem to be.
I think ol' Terry may have been drinking a bit when he wrote his scathing reply... because the next letter was like night and day. Sorry the trip was not so good. I took my own tour of the Modoc Indian Wars and took his book along with me. It was a great day driving, exploring and flipping pages... Lava Beds National Monument near Klamath Falls.
Ken