Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Gun Building and Repair => Topic started by: Ohio Joe on January 05, 2018, 11:34:43 PM
-
With the new year underway I thought I would start gathering some more parts for my next "flintlock rifle" build... :Doh! Yes, another one... :)
I've had a 7/8" x 36" - .45 caliber Green Mnt Brl setting around for years now, just waiting on me to give it a home in some Maple I have setting out in my workshop that's been there for at least 10 years, I bet.
I ordered an "American Classic L&R Lock" from Track of the Wolf. I would have went with a Large Siler - but they're running $195.00 at TOW, whereas the LR is holding at $157.00 and that difference translates into (19) "No.6 Black English Flints" (so I ordered 20 of those as well).
I've had good luck with the two L&R (John Bailies) locks I own, (one in flint & one in percussion), so I expect the same quality and functionality from the "American Classic L&R Flintlock." As usual I'll make my own; underlugs, pins, trigger, trigger plate, front & rear sights, toe-plate, and flash hole liner...
I might even try something fancy with the wood, who knows...
I kinda plan on spreading this build out over 15 months (at which point I'm planning on retiring, or at least cutting back to a few days of work each week) we'll see...
With this build I'll try and keep some progress pictures posted here for those that might want to look in every once in a'while and see if I'm making any progress... :)
-
.
That sounds much better than the "honey do" list I got when I retired...... :hairy
I hope you can take & post some pics as you progress with the build.
.
-
I will post some pictures as I go along with the build, PetahW :bl th up
I do expect that "honey do" list to show up about the same time I get started with this project, but if I can stay hidden for awhile I might be able to get a decent start on it... :laffing
-
New Direction (All Ready)...
Instead of building a new rifle, I'm going to convert this rifle (see picture below) to flintlock (using the new L&R Flint Lock I ordered). The percussion lock of this rifle actually is from the rifle I built for my wife many years ago, which I have been using in the rifle pictured below, and the one which is my new reworked Rendezvous rifle. (Had a earlier post about this rifle last year)
It will now become a "flintlock" as all I have to do is remove the Drum & install the the Flash Hole Liner... The Nose Cap of this rifle will sell the "idea" that the fore-stock was damaged, then shortened and made into a half stock (which could very well have happened way back in the day) giving justification for half-stock Flintlock Muzzle Loading Rifles,,, (not that it's needed at any club/organization that I know of),,, but to me it sells what could have very well been a "common or uncommon" practice during the Rendezvous Fur trade era of 1825 - 1840, (and beyond).
Now I'll just have to find another retirement project... lol!!! :) Oh, I might mention (if I didn't already) that my wife's rifle will get its percussion lock back...
Just a quick update; I removed the drum and installed the Flash Hole Liner, so all that's left to do is install the Lock when it shows up (probably mid-week?) and the Siler Caplock is back on my wife's rifle.
This L&R lock has almost identical dimensions and comparing it with the Siler Flint Lock in the TOW Book (and TOW also mentions it will fit a Siler mortise) they appear identical. So,,, I should be good. :bl th up
Here's an idea of what the lock area will look like as a flintlock rifle. I'll have to fit the L&R Lock when it shows up.
-
Single set trigger, or just a single trigger?
-Kees-
-
Single set trigger, or just a single trigger?
-Kees-
Just a single trigger, WH. This rifle has a pretty lite pull the way I got the slant cut on the trigger that engages the Sear release arm. :bl th up
-
Joe, I have to be rock solid honest.........
We have known each for a long time, but for the life of me I can not remember the time when you were not working on "sump'n"!
And, I don't mean that in a bad way either! :bow
You are the building man's builder.
You are always working on some kind of project.....Gun, Bow, 'Arrer's", Knife, Hawk, Sights, Possibles Bag, and on, and on.....you name it, Joe da man does it!
It amazes me that Cindy even lets you come in the house to eat!
Or, better yet, how you ever find time to eat, between building, range time, work, more range time, and planning another project.
When they say, "Idle hands make for a Devil's playground", ya don't have to worry Joe, not even a little bit.
Good luck to ya, my friend, and the best to your lovely wife!
Can't wait to see what your retirement is like, or even what the next 11 months in this year is going to bring.
:lol sign
Uncle Russ...
-
Can't wait to see what your retirement is like, or even what the next 11 months in this year is going to bring.
Oh, I might slow up a bit and sleep in 'till 5:00 AM before planning my day... :)
I've got the conversion from cap to flint done on this rifle (I'll post a picture later), and the cap-lock is installed back onto Cindy's rifle (its rightful home),,, so I've got a little project time open now - which will probably be a rework on Cindy's rifle which I slapped together way back (15 years ago at least). I need to beautify it a bit as it truly was a quick last minute build so she'd have something she could use in the gal's shoot at the Rendezvous (but she never really took to the shooting, as she enjoyed the atmosphere of the Rendezvous camp a'lot more), but I'll rework her rifle anyway.
Al'most forgot, I gotta make new poles for our family Rendezvous tent... Now that's a better weather project... :toast
-
Okay, here's the rifle with the L&R Flint Lock installed; This Lock breaks smooth, and throws good sparks into the pan. I did do a little trigger work as well. Gonna try to get out Wednesday and play with it (Sorry about the picture quality).
Here's the rifle before its transition to Flint Lock;
You know Russ, this calls for a new shooting bag I'll start on soon for this new transition Flint Lock. :shake
-
You know, Joe, this just proves something that I learned oh so many years ago when I was young and had hair on the top of my head.
At the time I was involved pretty heavily into automobiles and I discovered to my dismay that if you changed one thing, one simple, teenee tiny thing, more often than not you would have to change two more things to go along with it. So, say you wanted to get rid of the stock exhaust manifolds and put headers on the engine. Simple enough, but then you needed to redo one way or another the exhaust tubing back to the mufflers. While you're at it, might as well put on a new set of mufflers. While you are doing that, might as well reroute the exhaust out the side instead of out the back. See how easy that all was? And we're not even taking into account catalytic converters here. This was pre-smog control.
So, changing a lock back to the original flintlock will require a new shooting bag and trust me, you're gonna need a new powder horn to go along with the new bag. And so it goes, my friend. So it goes.
-
So, changing a lock back to the original flintlock will require a new shooting bag and trust me, you're gonna need a new powder horn to go along with the new bag. And so it goes, my friend. So it goes.
Ain't that the awful truth, John. :bow :bl th up
-
I haven't got to the Range as yet to play with this Rifle/Lock conversion, but I have to say that I did go out to my workshop this morning with the Rifle and I threw some 2fg Goex powder down the bore and also put just a touch of 2fg in the pan to test the ignition just outside my workshop... I must of put 30 or more grains in the bore as when I touched off the loose powder it was an instant "big" boom! I actually thought the sheriff might show up,,, (yes it was that loud),,, but he didn't - and I cleaned the Rifle and the Lock.
Now, I have to brag on this new L&R Flint Lock;
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/747/1/LOCK-LR-2100
It was/is fast!!! And it was tested with 2f powder, with very little (and I mean very little) 2f Prime in the pan... IMHO, if that Siler Percussion Lock I had on this Rifle was any faster then this L&R Flint Lock,,, I certainly didn't notice a difference. This L&R Classic Flint Lock is, "Fast!!!"
I'm looking forward to when I can have a decent session with this rifle at the Range! I'm very happy with this new Lock and the conversion I made from the Siler Percussion Lock. :hairy
-
You know, through the progression of different owners of L & R Lock Co, I have bought and used a bunch of them, mostly the shotgun style locks that were put on our big bore rifles. Through the years I have heard some less than kind opinions of them as well. But I must say that of all the locks we have installed, I have yet to hear back of any problems with them, either flint or percussion.
Personally, i have always found them to be a reliable lock that functions problem free.
Joe, your observations of your lock do not surprise me even a little tiny bit.
John
-
John, I think there's a lot to what L&R has to say about this Lock;
The cam action angle of the tumbler engages the mainspring. This really speeds lock time. Turned bearing surfaces on the tumbler and sear minimize friction, essential during cold weather hunting. Improved cock geometry allows a shorter stroke, with better sparks thrown squarely into the pan.
-
I surely can't complain about the one I have on my T-C! The cock comes down with real authority, let me tell you, and it's real easy on flints. On top of which, I sold the original T-C lock so the L&R only cost me $50. Only problem was that I kind of buggered up the inletting when I mounted it. It's filled with colored bedding epoxy and isn't really noticeable but it really pops out in a photo. But that doesn't hurt performance one bit!
I read where someone, I don't remember who, was in at the L&R shop when an irate client came in saying that their locks weren't worth a hoot. The shop owner looked it over and it was dry as a bone. He lubricated it and it worked fine, but the customer was not satisfied and got his money back. I believe the directions do specify that you need to keep it greased....
-Kees-
-
I surely can't complain about the one I have on my T-C! The cock comes down with real authority, let me tell you, and it's real easy on flints. On top of which, I sold the original T-C lock so the L&R only cost me $50. Only problem was that I kind of buggered up the inletting when I mounted it. It's filled with colored bedding epoxy and isn't really noticeable but it really pops out in a photo. But that doesn't hurt performance one bit!
I read where someone, I don't remember who, was in at the L&R shop when an irate client came in saying that their locks weren't worth a hoot. The shop owner looked it over and it was dry as a bone. He lubricated it and it worked fine, but the customer was not satisfied and got his money back. I believe the directions do specify that you need to keep it greased....
-Kees-
Mine didn't come with any directions, but that's okay as I always polish up the pan and areas where powder may cake to they lock and I always lubricate my lock's moving parts.
I know some folks who don't lubricate their internal parts and they always seem to have troubles down the road. The most often thing I here is that they don't lube because they don't want their lock drawing dirt or powder particles to jam it up... Clean lubricated parts are happy - dependable parts. :bl th up
-
Geez Louise, how difficult is it to clean and lubricate a lock? :P Makes you wonder about such folks... ::)
-
Geez Louise, how difficult is it to clean and lubricate a lock? :P Makes you wonder about such folks... ::)
My thoughts pre-zactly!
My Grandson once asked me why clean the Lock all the time?
That is until I put his lock in a sonic-cleaner, even a 21 year old can "see the light", once they see what comes out of a lock that hasn't been cleaned for several years....lubricating should be clear as a crystal bell as you have moving parts moving against each other.
Still yet, it still happens all the time.
Shoot 'em, wipe 'em a little bit, spray some WD-40, and put 'em away 'till the next time.
You can get away with that, for awhile. But the boogyman is going to get'cha, at the most inopportune time.
Uncle Russ...
-
A properly inletted lock won't let any dirt or powder in behind it. Certainly not from one shooting session.
-
That's true Hank, but I like to wash the powder fouling out of the pan and parts of the cock before I reinstall the lock. The entire operation, i.e., using warm water and an old toothbrush, rinsing, spraying with WD-40, and re-lubing the next day takes less than 5 minutes. Putting it back into the stock the next day takes less than 2 minutes....and I never have lock (or rust) problems either. Btw, I do the same with my percussion locks with no issues there either.
-
That would be a +1 for me as well Paul,,,,,, :hairy
Dave
-
I clean everything regardless if I take only one shot. That rifle will be cleaned and lubed completely before I store it. Everyone has their own way of doing things. This is just my way for what I own. :shake
-
I clean after every outing also. Didn't mean to give the impression otherwise.
-
I clean after every outing also. Didn't mean to give the impression otherwise.
I had no doubt about that, Hank. :bl th up
I did read one time that for an enlarged lock mortises (through wear or original inlet) that it wasn't uncommon to use wax (I assume Bees Wax) to fill in those areas and also to water-proof the lock, and to also wax around the pan to water proof it.
-
FWIW:
If anyone thinks their Lock, or Trigger, never gets dirt, dust, grime on them, I would suggest taking another look, especially if you use WD-40, as most of us do.
If someone has used a lot of WD-40 over the years....and didn't wipe it off as we should have, it builds-up over time as a "clear, varnish" looking substance.
Something I was personally very guilty of doing for years on end.
From the time I discovered the wonders of WD-40 I used it on everything, lots of it, not wiping, but just "slinging", or "shaking" the excess off.
It has kept many a 1911 shooting and ejecting for years on end, and will likely continue to do so.
It has, in all probability, been used on every muzzleloader ever made, or at least some part of that muzzleloader,
In the 1990's I attended CST (Colorado School of Trades / Gunsmithing) and the very first day of introduction to the Class, we were all told...."You can't use WD-40 in this School, if you are caught with a can on your bench, or in your locker, it is an automatic 3 day suspension that must be made up before Graduation, 2 years from this date. If you are caught a second time, you are gone!"
Needless to say, that caught my attention.
So, I made it a point to find out why that rule was so tough....and, it didn't take me very long, likely the very first month I was in Basic to see why that rule was so stringently enforced.
CST is billed as the largest Gunsmithing Shop in the Free World....each day they process dozens and dozens of gun through that shop, with all monies going back to the School....they are also the least expensive of all gun repair shops because all the work is done by the students under supervision of the Instructors...after Basic Shop, D&F (Design & Function) and 3 months in Stock Work, each student is then State Certified on the Mill, Lathe, and the 3 Welding types, and then every graduating student must repair 100 guns in order to graduate....Afterall, they are going to train you in 2 years to walk right into your own shop, or, maybe, if you are real lucky, work for one of the larger Gun Companies.
That process of assigning guns for repair is much like taking a ticket at the DMV to get your Drivers License...you never know what's coming next.
You pull a ticket and take it to the Supply Room Counter and you receive the next available Firearm.
A Firearm that you become totally responsible for, the student has no choice insofar as if it's a Rifle, or a Handgun, he simply picks up the NEXT firearm, no matter why it was brought in or what it was brought in for, but whatever it is, that is the student's next assigned project, which will be repaired, go through 3 safety checks, test fired, graded, and cleaned again before that Gun is released back to the Customer.
Due to the close tolerances of all guns, the number one cause of malfunction and a trip to the repair shop, is simply a dirty gun.
The best method for cleaning a gun or gun parts is the use of a Sonic Cleaner, and the School owned a lot of those, they were located two, sometimes three, in ever shop section, with some as large as 30"L by 12'W by 10"D.
If you take a trigger, or a lock, and run it through a Sonic cleaner you will see a lot of small "Crystals" in the bottom of the pan....it's hard to describe this without a picture, but it's tiny, tiny, little pieces of varnish that closely resembles glass particles....that is WD-40 you see!
If the weapon or part is really dirty, there will be other colors but mostly black, and that makes those little "crystals" stand out like a sore thumb.
BTW: CST recommends a very light coat of plain ol' 3-N-1 oil above all other products for lubing a firearm.
I feel confident that in the last 20 plus years, with all the major new products on the market, they may have changed...but from their establishment in 1947 until the 1990's their preferred lube never changed, maybe it has by now, I don't know.
Such buildup, when allowed to continue, can simply "freeze" a gun up.
In our field of interest, ie, muzzleloaders we don't see this as much because we are always cleaning and wiping due to our propellant being Black Powder....but Black Powder brings with it the responsibility of more cleanings, more wiping, more pampering, than our Smokeless counterparts.
Morale of this long and boring story;
WD-40 is a Water Displacement tool, and a very good one at that.
If you use it, be sure to wipe the part good, and never fail to use a good Lubricant AFTER you use WD-40.
Uncle Russ...
-
Very informative Russ, thanks! :bl th up
I will admit that I keep WD-40 on hand with the little red blast tube in case I have to blast a part that needs some attention because of a grime build up. Afterwards I follow that with an alcohol (91% or better) Q-tip and pipe cleaner - then its gets the BC Sheath Rust preventive once the area is completely dry.
(I can't say why I do this - it must be something I read or was told a lot of years back, perhaps so far back I just can't recall???
Now don't get me wrong 'cause I'm just a guilty as a lot of others with that WD-40, and when I was younger I did use a'lot of WD-40 for cleaning purposes but I never relied on it as the final coat of lube that I can recall. :shake
-
Good werds Russ.I lerned years ago not to spay W-D-40 and call it good.I gunctup a gun that I had to take to the gunsmirh to get cleand up. I toled the guy what I was doing and he roled his eyes and said don't do that any more and the said that will be 3 0.00 bucks. :o
-
Roaddog
As with any professional, you pay for what they know not so much what they do. I never understood why folks would pay for an office call at the doctor and then tell everyone that would listen that the doctor didn't know what they were doing. Aunt Millie (or Gandma or---) always used XXXXXXXXX and it cured everyone in just a few days.
doggoner