Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Gun Building and Repair => Topic started by: Ohio Joe on April 28, 2019, 01:33:22 PM
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This morning I cut out my curly maple stock blank from a slab of maple I've been storing for probably close to 12 years - maybe more? This slab has always been earmarked for the purpose of when I retired - I planned to build myself a curly maple full stock flintlock, of no one particular school of thought.
It will have a 7/8 x 36 inch Green Mtn Brl x .45 caliber / with flared tang, and I'll use the L&R Classic Flintlock. I like that lock. The butt plate I'm still not sure on with what I'll go with, although I do like the looks of some of those York County butt plates.
It's not a build I'm going to rush. It's just a relaxing pass time I enjoy, so I'll see where it leads me once I get deeper into this build. There's lots of curl in this maple! I don't know if the pictures below does the "curly Maple" justice - but there's a lot!
I'll make periodical posts as this build progresses. I'll say up front, I'm in no big hurry to get it done. :shake
(https://i.imgur.com/tw5IVMq.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/F6qVtGW.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/2YepZuZ.jpg?1)
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The middle picture shows some mighty nice curl. :hairy
Sounds like a fun project. :applaud :toast :*:
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It's pretty much like that through and through Rondo. It's kinda tough to see with my picture taking - but it's there. Ought to make it fun drilling for a ramrod when the time comes, but it's doable. :bl th up
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Beaucoup curl in there. Should be stunning. :applaud
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Beaucoup curl in there. Should be stunning. :applaud
I hope I can do it justice. :pray:
I haven't chiseled out a barrel channel for some time - but I got it started, and man is there curl in that hunk of maple. :bl th up
I've allowed enough in the blank to get upwards of 4+ inch of drop, but I think I'll bring 'er in at around 3-5/8,,, maybe 3-7/8 inches. But I'm a ways from that. :shake
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I'd put the drop the same as my mostest favorite rifle. :)
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Awesome Joe! Not only alot of curl but it looks tight as well.
Looking forward to your updates.
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I'd put the drop the same as my mostest favorite rifle. :)
That would be the smart thing to do for sure, Hank... However, my .54 half stock Plains rifle I built 10 years or so ago has a 4 inch drop and it's the most accurate 25 and 50 yard rifle I ever built...
It comes right up to the shoulder and at 25 yards and you'll hit 10's and X's all day long (or at least 'till you get worn out lifting that 10-1/2 pounds...) Then at 50 yards you just aim what you perceive to be center X, and just minutely shade ever so little high and you can live in the 10 Ring all day long,,, I kid you not!
The other thing is that the front sight is 5/32nds off the top flat - while the rear sight is 1/4 inch off the top flat, so it don't take long to get heat mirage with those 90 grain loads of 2fg. But it's truly the most accurate muzzle loading rifle I ever built, but I have to think 5 shot matches before this Plains Rifle gets about a 10 minute break to cool down on a summer day.
Now ol' Candle Snuffer comes in with a 3 inch drop and 1/4" tall sights - but being a .45 and shooting 55 grains of 3fg - I have never found heat mirage to be an issue with ol' Snuffer...
So I'm a thinking since from the top of my shoulder to the center of my eye measures 7-1/8th inches, perhaps a 3-9/16" drop (make it 3-5/8" drop) should play in about right.
I'm going to have to wrestle with this a'while. :shake
Oh as a side note; measuring from the top of the shoulder to the center of one's eye as they stand straight - I have found puts them on a better "shoulder" sight plane... You just divide that measurement by 2 as I did above. It actually does work; top of shoulder to center of eye measures 7-1/8th inches = 3-9/16 drop.
:shake
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Awesome Joe! Not only alot of curl but it looks tight as well.
Looking forward to your updates.
Thanks ridjrunr, that curl be tight! :bl th up I'll post updates on the build - heck, you guys might see something I'm a missing as its been a'while since I built a muzzle loading rifle. :shake
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Here's a helpful tip;
(https://i.imgur.com/0iMpcb0.jpg?1)
Note: Be sure your stock blank is squared...
Notice on the front of the stock blank the pencil mark for where the bottom of the barrel will set in once that area is removed / now notice the cuts (made by my circular saw) running up the channel. Those cuts are only as deep as the top 5 Flats of the octagons...
Doing this will aid you in chiseling out the channel to the top of the 3 lower barrel flats... Once those "saw blade" cuts disappear as you work your way up the barrel channel taking out wood, and you will know you are deep enough in this area... Then you can move onto shaping the bottom of the barrel channel where those 3 octagon flats set into the stock.
I hope this tip makes sense to all who see it. Study the two pictures and you'll get the idea. :shake
(https://i.imgur.com/e6VbHyW.jpg?1)
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Joe, it would make it easier yet if before you make those cuts, draw lines representing the bottom flat and cut them before cutting the sides. Then remove the wood as you normally would. I hope I'm making sense also.
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Ok, the barrel channel is in, with the next step to fit the barrel to the channel, and then fit the breech plug to the barrel. After that - fit barrel with breech plug to the stock.
(https://i.imgur.com/fWHJLIe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nYJOq3z.jpg)
Joe, it would make it easier yet if before you make those cuts, draw lines representing the bottom flat and cut them before cutting the sides. Then remove the wood as you normally would. I hope I'm making sense also.
Not a bad idea Hank. I guess I'm just so use to doing it with the chisels, I've never thought about it. :Doh! :shake
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No pictures today - Just an update.
I have the barrel channel completed and am now working on in-letting the breech plug tang. Once I have this done I'll post another picture along with my projected drop (which early measurements are showing I could go 3-3/4" if I chose to. I'll have to decide on that or 3-5/8"... Trigger pull will be 13-5/8 inches (though I am wrestling with maybe 13-1/2" if I go with the 3-3/4" drop... :shake
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I never like to go too long on my LOP so that I can shoot comfortably in the winter. I think it's easier to adapt to a sort LOP than a long one.
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I never like to go too long on my LOP so that I can shoot comfortably in the winter. I think it's easier to adapt to a sort LOP than a long one.
That is exactly right Hank. My normal pull is 14-1/4 inches, so with every ML I've built I've shorten that LOP to 13-5/8 inches, which leaves me plenty of room for hunting clothes.
Overall I think a person is better off with a shorter pull, and not because of the late hunting seasons, but I've always felt most of us shoot more targets with our ML's then the shots we take hunting - so just might as well go with the shorter trigger pull, and get use to your rifle with it as you target shoot during good weather, then you're always ready for the hunt.
However, I leave that up to a person's personal choice of what they want. Twice I've built a ML for a friend of mine and his trigger pull was real close to 16 inches,,, so we went 15-1/2 inches to allow for hunting clothes... He actually told me he feels that pull is more comfortable for him. Also I might mention, his drop was 4-1/2 inches. Ol' Stan is a very tall person.
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Here is a picture with the barrel's full in'letting completed... I didn't realize before seeing this picture I took, that it makes the barrel appear cockeyed in the channel. I assure you it is completely squared, and not cockeyed. It's the angle I took this picture from that makes it look that way.
The next step will be the ramrod channel - but I need to wait on Track of the Wolf to send me my nose cap so I can double check the distance between the bottom of the barrel and the top of the ramrod channel - before I do any cutting in this area. I believe it will be 1/4 inch (based on others I've order from them in the past), but I need to be sure. The channel turned out real nice. I guess I still have my technique down with doing it the old fashion way, using my wood chisels and home made barrel channeling scrapers and sanding blocks. :bl th up
(https://i.imgur.com/TIaXCcm.jpg?2)
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Lookin' good! :hairy
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Lookin' good! :hairy
Same whut Rondo seez! :bow
:hairy
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Thanks Rondo and Russ, :shake
Here's where I'm at this morning;
Figured I practice a little Ramrod Thimble inletting since I'm ready to start on the Ramrod channel.
(https://i.imgur.com/5B0gWiW.jpg?1)
Everybody's a critic, LOL! Yes Smokey, I'm gonna get to that when the time comes...lol!!!
(https://i.imgur.com/DvSb9j9.jpg?1)
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No picture tonight on this, I'm tired; Ramrod channel & drilled hole is completed and checks out a-o-k... When hand drilling with the brace & bit, I got within 2-1/2 inches of being done and I was wore out - so I cheated and got my hammer drill out and powered through that last 2-1/2 inches. I'll post up a few pictures sometime tomorrow.
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No picture tonight on this, I'm tired; Ramrod channel & drilled hole is completed and checks out a-o-k... When hand drilling with the brace & bit, I got within 2-1/2 inches of being done and I was wore out - so I cheated and got my hammer drill out and powered through that last 2-1/2 inches. I'll post up a few pictures sometime tomorrow.
Geesh Joe, you be moving right along! You be da Man in this rifle from scratch game......You and Rob, You two guys can knock 'em out faster than I can get 'em unpacked.
Keep up the good work! Practice makes perfect and I know you've got a few builds behind you.
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Thanks Russ, this should be stock number 16/17 that I've made (if I'm remembering right)?
I've only bought 3 stocks (for parts builds) with the in'letting already done, in my life, (I don't count the CVA, TC, or Lyman kits) and decided I could make them for a'lot less (for my parts) then I could buy them for.
I've made rifles for myself and other folks (new builds or just restocking a persons muzzleloader). I like to combine new and old school technology as everything seems to come together. If I had to do this for a living - I don't believe I would enjoy it as much. In fact, I'd probably hate it... lol!!!
All in all, this is probably my last build. I'm just not as spry as I use to be, and I can feel that in my muscles. Now remember I said, "probably" ::) :shake
My setup for drilling for Ramrod (I'll clean my bench off today, lol!)
(https://i.imgur.com/a3DJ25r.jpg)
View of stock with rameod hole completed
(https://i.imgur.com/kcCqa5x.jpg)
View of stck with the lock I'll use for this rifle
(https://i.imgur.com/qhct3Sr.jpg)
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Joe,.... your shop looks better organized than mine, and you even have a broom to call your own (I have to borrow one from the house)! :lol sign
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Nice and squared up! Looking great.
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Joe,.... your shop looks better organized than mine, and you even have a broom to call your own (I have to borrow one from the house)! :lol sign
Oh it's not that organized, but I plan on cleaning it up today or tomorrow. You know, Cindy was gonna throw that broom away 'cause she got a new one - well I just snagged right onto that - but she wouldn't show me how it works. :laffing
Nice and squared up! Looking great.
Bill, I think she's as square as she's gonna get. :toast
I've been looking for some pictures to study rifles without the nose cap. I'm now thinking of going that route with this one. I figure I can always add a nose cap down the road if I feel I need to.
If you guys run across any pictures - send me a link if you don't mind. :shake
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I like the looks of the "no nose cap" on this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/06wTVRC.jpg?1)
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I like the looks of the "no nose cap" on this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/06wTVRC.jpg?1)
:hairy :hairy
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Well I laid out the hardware that I'll refurbish for this build that came off other rifles I reworked over the years. Sorry about the quality of the picture, but it shows the "location" of the thimbles and (the barrel tenons I made yesterday afternoon), along with the location of the front and rear sights.
It's a real nice morning for a change with good 'ol sunshine coming through my workshop window. I'm hoping this is a sign of nice weather to finally come our way.
I have allowed for a 1 inch nose cap should I decide to go with one.
(https://i.imgur.com/4Ywv1eD.jpg?1)
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I haven't posted a picture lately of my retirement rifle, mainly do to having my 9 year old grandson spend 3 weeks with me (which I wouldn't trade for anything), and this past weekend he went back home so ol' grandpa decided to get back to this project to take my mined off missing that little feller.
I got the lock installed (L&R Flintlock) and the top of the barrel channel cut to where I like it. My next step will be doing some more shaping on of stock then I'll move on to making a trigger plate and trigger...
However, the above won't happen until next week... As I was typing this post, Herren Brothers called me (that's where I retired from) and asked if I'd fill in tomorrow and Friday since they'll be short handed. Heck, I told them I would since I don't have anything going on that's pressing.
(https://i.imgur.com/sorXBlx.jpg?1)
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Joe,
You got that rifle gun about to the point where you need to be starting in on it with a tomahawk, ala Wallace Gussler.
Every time I watch that video (the Gunsmith of Williamsburg) I cringe when he brings it out and starts whacking.
Looking good so far.
John
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Joe,
You got that rifle gun about to the point where you need to be starting in on it with a tomahawk, ala Wallace Gussler.
Every time I watch that video (the Gunsmith of Williamsburg) I cringe when he brings it out and starts whacking.
Looking good so far.
John
I know what you mean, John. :o I watched that video about a month ago or so (again) and I remember you saying this before about the hawk he takes to that stock. Quite the builder for sure. If I did that I'd have nothing but kindling for fire starter... :laffing
If anyone wants to watch this video (and a good one it is for sure), here's a link;
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=YouTube+Flintlock+Rifle+Builders&&view=detail&mid=EA5EE46FC3C928830645EA5EE46FC3C928830645&&FORM=VDRVRV
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An old friend and gun builder used to say building a rifle was easy. Just take off all the wood that isnt a rifle...
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An old friend and gun builder used to say building a rifle was easy. Just take off all the wood that isnt a rifle...
That sounds right to me. :hairy
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Went this route this time for the nose cap. This is the first time I've used this particular one (the short one).
I bridged the gap between the bottom of the nose cap and top of the ramrod with a piece of 1/4" wide brass which I epoxied and pinned with a brass brad. I've used this method several times with the 2 long nose cap, and it works just fine. I've never like the idea of to big a gap between the nose cap and ramrod.
Here are a couple pictures;
(https://i.imgur.com/iNiKncH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UZavSRV.jpg)
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An elegant solution, Joe. Looks great! :yessir:
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Thank you Nessmuk. :shake
It's been quite a few years since I built a stock from scratch, but it's a coming back to me. :)
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What Nessmuck said! :hairy :hairy
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What Nessmuck said! :hairy :hairy
Me too!
I especially like Nessmuck's description of "Elegant".....You nailed it, brother!!
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Joe, have you tried drilling your ramrod hole higher up. I drill mine where the rammer is about 1/16" below the nosecap. It makes for a much slimmer rifle. More than one way to skin a cat.
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Got the Butt-Plate installed this afternoon (1/16th inch cast off) - so tomorrow I think I'll take some wood off the butt area (might even get the toe plate installed? Trigger pull is 13-1/2 inches, and drop is 3-1/2 inches (which all fit me).
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Joe, have you tried drilling your ramrod hole higher up. I drill mine where the rammer is about 1/16" below the nosecap. It makes for a much slimmer rifle. More than one way to skin a cat.
Well Hank, I was going to use a grooved nose cap, but decided to go with the short non grooved nose cap - so the drilling was already finished after I changed my mind on nose cap's. :shake
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What Nessmuck said! :hairy :hairy
Me too!
I especially like Nessmuck's description of "Elegant".....You nailed it, brother!!
Thank you Russ. :bl th up
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Just to give a little background on my rifle build;
My new build will end up looking similar to the old flintlock in the link below - (though I've made altercations naturally). I prefer a muzzle loading rifle with a bit of heft since where I live we reenact the western fur trade where thin stocked rifles didn't have a good reputation of being best suited for the rigors of the west. Click on the link below to see how much this flintlock's been through.
I went .45 caliber with a 7/8" x 36" Green Mnt. Barrel... I could have gone .50 caliber - but prefer to go .45 and save on powder and lead. After all, we're only reenacting a fur trade camp and we don't have to worry about grizzly bears here in NW Nebraska (unless one decides to migrate out'a Yellowstone, which I don't see that happening in the near future.
So, my new build will fit me just fine for deer size game and smaller - with the added shooting matches it will be used in. :shake
https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_70986/gi_100817985/Small-Flint-Lock-Rifle-Youth-or-Ladies-Gun-Early-1800and-39-s_100817985_70986_D816432FD44A2533.JPG
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Sorry about the picture quality, but what do you guys think,,, I've been shaping the beaver tail cheek piece and do you think I ought to leave that little strip of wood under the cheek piece? It actually looks pretty cool in my opinion, but just wondered what you all thought?
It really has no purpose other then it looks pretty neat and can be an identification signature
(https://i.imgur.com/mW8AS7H.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FeXe163.jpg)
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Sorry about the picture quality, but what do you guys think,,, I've been shaping the beaver tail cheek piece and do you think I ought to leave that little strip of wood under the cheek piece? It actually looks pretty cool in my opinion, but just wondered what you all thought?
It really has no purpose other then it looks pretty neat and can be an identification signature
(https://i.imgur.com/mW8AS7H.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FeXe163.jpg)
I'd leave it,.... 'cause I agree, it does look pretty cool. :hairy :hairy
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Yup. I'd leave it!
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I left it :bl th up
Here are 3 more pictures of some shaping I did yesterday and today. I'm gonna pull off of this rifle for a'while as I need to start getting ready for Fur Trade Days that's less then a month off.
I still need to finish shaping the stock, install the lock side plate, pin the barrel, blue the barrel, make my trigger plate and trigger, add a toe plate, install the trigger guard, and make my sights, then finish the stock after a good sanding, but this will all be after Rendezvous in July.
I'll add quickly that this rifle really shoulders good, and should end up in the 8.25 to 8.5 pound range.
So far, so good. :shake
(https://i.imgur.com/2IwYx4X.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/steipaF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zIcNIM3.jpg) (https://imgur.com/zIcNIM3)
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I like it!
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Thank you Spotted Bull. I think it'll be a fun rifle once I get it done and get to the Range with it. I'm guessing sometime in August (I hope). :bl th up
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I'm impressed with all you have done thus far! I just installed a patch box on the Hodgepodge rifle, and proved once again that my inletting skills are diddley squat! It's functional, but certainly not pretty... :o
~Kees~
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I've never done a patch box, Kees. That's just something I've always stayed away from. I think mostly because, even though I own rifles with a patch box - I never use them.
I think this is stock number 16 or 17 that I've done, and only the 4th full stock I've ever done. The rest were 1/2 stock rifles. I'll also be the first to admit that I don't do fancy - I do functional. I leave the fancy to the experts. :bl th up :shake
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Well, with the crappy rainy weather today, I decided I may as well get the trigger plate and trigger made.
Here are some pictures below. I haven't installed it as yet as I need to polish these up a bit, pin them together, get them formed to the stock, once I get the tang screw lined and drilled into the plate, then heat them and dip them in oil as my last step.
(https://i.imgur.com/nFZbkig.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0f1zdbd.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/HVp8hRH.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/jlqCIOc.jpg?1)
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Got the trigger & trigger plate put together and fitted to the rifle - then clamped it in - she's making sparks... Don't know what the trigger pull weight is yet, but it felt pretty much the same as my other rifles. I went a'head and polished them up and just blued them instead of heating them and dropping 'em in oil.
I think I'll do the tang screw next which will anchor in the front part of the trigger plate then install the rear trigger plate screw,,, then pin the barrel to the stock (maybe not in this order)... After this I'll install the trigger guard - then finish shaping the forward stock.
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Here's an update and some pictures;
All that's left to do with this rifle is to install the sights, install the vent, add the lock plate, do a little lock area and off panel wood clean up, one final sanding, staining, blue the barrel... Here are some stats on it;
Weight 8.5 pounds
.45 x 7/8 x 36" (1/60 twist) Green Mnt Brl
L&R Flintlock
Single Trigger
Curly Maple Stock
3-3/8" drop
13-5/8 trigger pull
1/16" Cast Off
Pictures;
(https://i.imgur.com/ihDGuo6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2QFA0RC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JWLfvmW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y3Sr9RS.jpg)
A bit of history on the background of this rifle;
Simply put - it's in the tradition of a trade gun style/type flintlock with nothing fancy about it. The stock is heavier then eastern rifles of the 1830's as this rifle is intended for the western fur trade, and is my rendition of what a trapper / hunter might carry. The only reason it's built in .45 caliber is for my use as a deer size hunting rifles and reenactment prop, and for shooting at today's Rendezvous (and our TMA Postal Matches, as well as other muzzleloading shooting matches).
Rifles similar to this build would have been most likely .50 caliber and up - but let's face it, the odds of me trapping a stream where a grizzly is gonna charge me is not going to happen. Of course, I haven't been in grizzly country yet,,, but I probably won't be, (that I know of)...
This rifle shoulders good for me right to point of aim. I honestly think I could hit my target say at 25 or 50 yards without sights on it as it fits me to the way I built it. It just flat out shoulder's great!
Hope you enjoy the pictures - I'm not a good picture taker by any means... :shake
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Lookin' good,.... it ought to be a "shooter". :hairy :applaud
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Lookin' good,.... it ought to be a "shooter". :hairy :applaud
Well, we're gonna find out one way or the other pretty soon (I hope)...
What do ya think Rondo, Buckhorn sight?
:shake
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I prefer flat-top rear sights on my longrifles. :hairy
Like this one,.... or one that is similar (depending on what size barrel I'm working with),..... :bl th up
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/880/1/RS-SCH-14
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I prefer flat-top rear sights on my longrifles. :hairy
Like this one,.... or one that is similar (depending on what size barrel I'm working with),..... :bl th up
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/880/1/RS-SCH-14
I'll meet you half way with this one, the semi buck horn... I've used these before and have actually made them from bar stock - though I think I'll just buy and modify this time. :bl th up
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/881/2/RS-SB1-14
That nose cap / ramrod placement didn't turn out bad. Actually I like it, less gap length and the piece of 1/4 brass I installed between the bottom of the nose cap and top of the ramrod closed that gap pretty decent. :bl th up
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Rondo, I switched up on sights and just made my own. I figure I can make 'em (which I usually do anyway) so I just spent the afternoon (somewhat) making a simple front and rear sight, and in the long run probably saved $20.00 or more had I order them.
I also gave the stock two more sanding's, and added the toe plate today.
Here's what's left to do;
1. Blue barrel, rear sight and front sight base (the front sight is brass blade)
2. Install the sights
3. Install vent liner & sand stock one more time
4. Stain stock (2 or 3 coats)
5. Polish stock
6. Zero this puppy in
I might just be able to bring this to Rendezvous this year if the zeroing goes well. 'Course other things might come up that I have to move off this rifle - so I'll play it by ear. :shake
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Rondo, I switched up on sights and just made my own. I figure I can make 'em (which I usually do anyway) so I just spent the afternoon (somewhat) making a simple front and rear sight, and in the long run probably saved $20.00 or more had I order them.
I also gave the stock two more sanding's, and added the toe plate today.
Here's what's left to do;
1. Blue barrel, rear sight and front sight base (the front sight is brass blade)
2. Install the sights
3. Install vent liner & sand stock one more time
4. Stain stock (2 or 3 coats)
5. Polish stock
6. Zero this puppy in
I might just be able to bring this to Rendezvous this year if the zeroing goes well. 'Course other things might come up that I have to move off this rifle - so I'll play it by ear. :shake
You're comin' right along! :hairy :hairy
If you go with a regular 1/4" vent liner (for now) and wanna convert your rifle to a Chambers "White Lightin' liner",.... I'll be bringin' some Chambers 5/16" liners along with the chamfer, tap, and bit, to the Chadron rendezvous. :bl th up :toast :shake :*:
No charge! :)
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I appreciate that Rondo. :toast :shake
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The rifle is finally finished. What started back on April 28, 2019 has come to a completion. Actually this has been in the works for a long time, letting wood dry, collecting parts, finding the time. Here it is, along with a nice home I received from Rondo :bl th up :shake some months back (many thanks my friend);
(https://i.imgur.com/34Bp7DV.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/d5A96z3.jpg?1)
Looks like a trapper's rifle to me.
I opted for brass washers instead of a side plate for the lock screws... The side plate seemed a bit of over kill for a trappers rifle IMHO.
It was a fun build! :bl th up
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Very nice looking rifle! I like the washers better than a plate myself.
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Thank you Spotted Bull. I'm looking forward to getting out to the Range with it, hopefully this coming Monday. :bl th up