Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Gun Building and Repair => Topic started by: Smokey on December 25, 2019, 03:05:49 PM
-
I have recently learned that some guns, like "barn guns" for example, do not have a sideplate. Why not?
What is the purpose of a side plate? Does it have a function?
-
it's mostly about form and aesthetics than function. there is no real pressing need for a lock side plate. one bushed machine screw will suffice quite nicely, and has done so for centuries.
is there a need for a patch box? a butt plate? a muzzle cap? an entry rod pipe? nay.
-
I agree with what Rob posted...
Sometimes I'll use a side plate, and other times I just use beveled brass or silver washers... My reasoning has always been that when the lock screw(s) are inserted through the wood & into the lock plate - I cut off any of the excess screw that comes through the plate / off flesh with the plate.
In this way you know when removing and re'installing the lock that when that screw is flesh with the plate, you haven't over tightened the lock screw(s) which makes the "lock plate or washer(s)" a nice reference,,, and there's no worry of over-tightening the lock...
That's always been my reasoning... Otherwise if you start over tightening the lock screw(s). well you might start ballooning the wood where that screw head rests... The side plate and washers, I have found to be good reference points... :shake
-
Its' basically a decorative washer.
-
None of my rifles or pistols have side plates, does that means they're "Barn Guns"? What makes a "Barn Gun" a "Barn Gun"?
-
None of my rifles or pistols have side plates, does that means they're "Barn Guns"? What makes a "Barn Gun" a "Barn Gun"?
I was reading over on ALR many years back that the folks over there referred to a barn gun - simply as a gun that was kept in the barn, and it was in no way shape or form - fancy,,, but was simply there if you needed it to say, shoot a varmint - I reckon 4 or 2 legged.
Now whether or not this is factual, I don't know?
Seems to me that if I thought I was going to need a gun in the barn, I'd bring one with me from the house...
It could also be that some guns where found in barns, so they called them "barn guns" - and why they were there, well I expect only the owner of the barn could of told a person that. :shake
-
Its' basically a decorative washer.
Quite right Hank... My brain could not come up with the proper name last night of those washers, and I've used them a bunch... :Doh! Thank you! :hairy
-
Thank you for replying, folks. I learned something: Side plates can be helpful but, they are not necessary.
-
I would imagine they added some structural strength to the side panel, especially on the more slender guns.
-
I would imagine they added some structural strength to the side panel, especially on the more slender guns.
not much if any. not really needed in that area of the stock considering the tang bolt and the amount of wood there as compared to the barrel channel where it can get wafer thin. with the aesthetics of really slim stock wrists behind the tang bolt and before the stock comb in vogue on lots of those 18th century long guns, that's an area of the wood that seems to get lots of break repairs.
-
None of my rifles or pistols have side plates, does that means they're "Barn Guns"? What makes a "Barn Gun" a "Barn Gun"?
IMHO = it is simply a gun (a long gun(?)) kept in the "barn". Why, perhaps, as already said = to shoot varmints. ( on our rural property, the man who maintained the prop, kept a simple bolt action .22 in the barn for that reason.He had enough to carry (from his abode) w/o packing a long arm
It seems that they were inexpensive models made by gunsmiths & could be "rifles" or "smooth bores" (imo the smoothies out #d the rifles. { other names for them (??) - poor boys, shmmers, ???}
-
So my takeaway is a side plate is an aesthetic addition to a fancy gun (for more engravings, perhaps ) and a "Barn" gun is disparaging term for a cheap or worn-out gun.
Learning everyday, ;)
-
my take on the "barn gun" moniker is for a simple, durable, working man's long gun. perhaps "cheap" in terms of little to no embellishments, but not lacking in quality of service.
-
:toast :shake
my take on the "barn gun" moniker is for a simple, durable, working man's long gun. perhaps "cheap" in terms of little to no embellishments, but not lacking in quality of service.
-
My opd muzzleloading mentor begain collecting all kinds of guns during the depression. His father was a county judge in the Texas Red river valley. On Weekends they would drive backroads looking for guns. They would stop at farms and ask about old guns. Invariably they were directed to the chicken house where "granny" had a gun of some sort on nails over the door. It’s purpose was for the elimination of chicken hawks and other pesky vermin.
He went on to say that generally they found many shotguns in this manner. But there was the occasional rifle,,,,, and wait for it, muzzleloader! Which was there most prized prey!
-
So "Barn" gun is not necessarily a disparaging term? Or does it totally depend on the context?
-
So "Barn" gun is not necessarily a disparaging term? Or does it totally depend on the context?
only a fool would think the name is disparaging. it has nothing to do with context. some of the better shooters are "barn guns". i actually prefer that style and dislike guns with inlays and carvings. to each their own.
-
For me,.... any gun I can "hit the broadside of a barn" with, is a good gun. :toast :laffing :bl th up
-
For me,.... any gun I can "hit the broadside of a barn" with, is a good gun. :toast :laffing :bl th up
:lol sign
This being the case, I have a few "barn" guns..... :laffing :bl th up
-
And all I own are Barn Guns and I'm happy with that! :hairy
-
Here's some the plain jane barn guns I've built. Pretty easy projects. These were just to use up parts in the shop. I made simple washers for these. I don't know if I can get the pictures to come up, or not.
-
Looking good, Rick
:hairy
-
Barn guns sure do have their own charm, Looks great waksupi :toast
-
Barn guns sure do have their own charm, Looks great waksupi :toast
:bl th up :toast
All the fancy bling in the world on a muzzleloading firearm won't make it shoot any better then what the owner puts into it with Range time, learning his firearm...
Myself, I've always preferred simplistic's. I'll take that any day over fancy - so's I'm'a guessing I'm just an old barn gun admirer.. :hairy
-
Barn guns sure do have their own charm, Looks great waksupi :toast
:bl th up :toast
All the fancy bling in the world on a muzzleloading firearm won't make it shoot any better then what the owner puts into it with Range time, learning his firearm...
Myself, I've always preferred simplistic's. I'll take that any day over fancy - so's I'm'a guessing I'm just an old barn gun admirer.. :hairy
no truer words have ever been spoken. newbies to the game, take notice and take heed! :bl th up
-
Couldn't agree more. Practice, practice, practice. Plain and simple.
I'm on my way to the range now with my barn guns. :bl th up :bl th up :bl th up
-
Let's not lose the thread, please. The question was whether sideplates have a purpose.
-
Let's not lose the thread, please. The question was whether sideplates have a purpose.
you bring up a good point. threads should stay on topic as much as possible.
however, in the matter of this thread i think the OP's question has been more than answered and the resulting chatter is an offshoot of "plate or no-plate". i think most realize the value of the side plate is mostly aesthetic, and with that in mind the direction of thoughts and comments drifted sideways to the no-plate gun, or barn gun, and there have been some good comments as well as to "what is a barn gun?". this is all perfectly normal, educational, and helpful, i think. no?
-
Trade gun side plates were important to the indians during the western fur trade era
"Most Indians would not trade for a gun that did not have the serpent plate."
http://thefurtrapper.com/home/indian-trade-guns/
-
Great Reference, Rondo :hairy
Most Indians would not trade for a gun that did not have the serpent plate. Hansen states that the earliest record of the Hudson’s Bay gun with its distinctive dragon ornament is dated 1805.
http://thefurtrapper.com/home/indian-trade-guns/
-
"All the fancy bling in the world on a muzzleloading firearm won't make it shoot any better then what the owner puts into it with Range time, learning his firearm..."
Joe, you're spot on...."it ain't so much the arrer as it is the Indian"
Uncle Russ...
-
I would imagine they added some structural strength to the side panel, especially on the more slender guns.
not much if any. not really needed in that area of the stock considering the tang bolt and the amount of wood there as compared to the barrel channel where it can get wafer thin. with the aesthetics of really slim stock wrists behind the tang bolt and before the stock comb in vogue on lots of those 18th century long guns, that's an area of the wood that seems to get lots of break repairs.
I was thinking more in terms of supporting the lock. With thinner sides typical of earlier guns, the screws would be more susceptible to pulling through. Later guns like Hawkens had thicker sidewalls in the lock area and could get away with simple washers.