Traditional Muzzleloading Association
The Center of Camp => The Campfire => Topic started by: Ohio Joe on February 17, 2020, 05:36:10 PM
-
I was over on our FB page, and this poor guy has a "shot out" stuck Nipple problem, and that's all he has... While a few have offered up good advice, I bet 90% of the comments probably has this guy scared to death he's gonna blow himself up because his drum has some surface rust from the caps and powder spraying on it, from hammer blow back... His old Nipple is shot out and causing the hammer to blow back,,, which in turn is splashing over spray onto the top outside corner of his drum...
Anyway,
I sent this feller the message below over on FB after one of several posts I read telling this guy "you got'a pipe bomb in your hands" - I wouldn't trust that drum, and so on...
Lance, come over to our Traditional Muzzleloading Association Forum and ask for Ohio Joe, and I'll talk you through this "Nipple" problem... Here on Facebook there are way to many cooks in the kitchen... Your problem is not unique and it is quite fixable.
Facebook (a home for breeding miss information IMHO)...
Some know what they're talking about, but not many...
-
That's sad! (http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/sad/super-sad.gif) (http://www.sherv.net/)
Good job inviting him over here where he can get some logical advice. :shake
-
Thanks Rondo :bl th up
I hope he takes me up on it 'cause my last "check in" over there on FB looks as if they've tried to befuddle him even more with IMHO a routine removal of a shot out stuck Nipple... Some people are telling this guy to pull the Drum and put a new one in... Hell, it's a bolster style and I was at least able to catch that one and tell him "Do not pull that drum"
I also told those posters (the ones painting this bleak picture for the poor guy) to quit scarring the hell of him over a simple fix...
Facebook is no place to seek gunsmith information IMHO... It's best to come here where we can get it sorted out the right way.
:shake
-
:hairy :hairy
-
Ok, I talked with Lance over on Facebook Messenger, and he thanked me for the advice, and the invite to the TMA Forum...
This is his first venture into traditional muzzleloading for hunting purposes... He told me that they are normally modern high power firearm hunters... I mentioned to him to follow the advice I gave him on Facebook and that all should work out ok... So, if nothing else we planted some seeds. :bl th up
-on the other side-
I have to say that this info he was receiving over there on TMA FB from some of those guys was simply ridiculous to the point of most having no idea what they were talking about...
When I see things like this, I have to ask myself - is this what the TMA really wants, piss-poor info given out on FB from people that simply don't have a clue?
Fortunately, at least half of us did have a clue about this feller's situation with his muzzle loading rifle, and it was easy enough to tell that... It's that other 50% that were pissin' in the wind... I'm gonna say it now, I'm not so sure the TMA should even be affiliated with FB... It's nothing more then a breeding ground for many a know nothing know it all's...
Just my opinion. :shake
-
I certainly agree 100% with you. We don't really need to be there.
-
I have to say that this info he was receiving over there on TMA FB from some of those guys was simply ridiculous to the point of most having no idea what they were talking about...
When I see things like this, I have to ask myself - is this what the TMA really wants, piss-poor info given out on FB from people that simply don't have a clue?
Fortunately, at least half of us did have a clue about this feller's situation with his muzzle loading rifle, and it was easy enough to tell that... It's that other 50% that were pissin' in the wind... I'm gonna say it now, I'm not so sure the TMA should even be affiliated with FB... It's nothing more then a breeding ground for many a know nothing know it all's...
Just my opinion. :shake
That's my opinion. I have friends in the ML community that frequent the various ML-type pages, and its the same thing at all of them. And while I no longer have a FB account, I believe we should get out while we can. What if someone follows the bad advice given and gets seriously injured or God-forbid dead? How will that reflect on "the real TMA" here on this forum?
-
I have to say that this info he was receiving over there on TMA FB from some of those guys was simply ridiculous to the point of most having no idea what they were talking about...
When I see things like this, I have to ask myself - is this what the TMA really wants, piss-poor info given out on FB from people that simply don't have a clue?
Fortunately, at least half of us did have a clue about this feller's situation with his muzzle loading rifle, and it was easy enough to tell that... It's that other 50% that were pissin' in the wind... I'm gonna say it now, I'm not so sure the TMA should even be affiliated with FB... It's nothing more then a breeding ground for many a know nothing know it all's...
Just my opinion. :shake
That's my opinion. I have friends in the ML community that frequent the various ML-type pages, and its the same thing at all of them. And while I no longer have a FB account, I believe we should get out while we can. What if someone follows the bad advice given and gets seriously injured or God-forbid dead? How will that reflect on "the real TMA" here on this forum?
BINGO!! :hairy :hairy
That's something we should all be very concerned about! :shake
-
John & Bull,
After seeing this and experiencing it first hand, I agree 100% with the both of you...
I feel what Spotted Bull said, and I quote;
What if someone follows the bad advice given and gets seriously injured or God-forbid dead?
This is a very telling comment that should be given "a'lot" of thought.
-
Rondo, I see we both had the same thought almost at the same time, of what John & Bull pointed out!
And these comments here need to be taken very seriously. No one can read every post made on FB, so there's no telling how much false and potential damaging info is out there that could indeed lead to someone getting injured or worse.
And to a lesser extent, what if someone follows bad advice and it ends up destroying a $2000.00 muzzleloading firearm and that person who's pride and joy goes to court over it not only naming the person who gave him/her the bad advice, but also names TMA Facebook as well for providing a platform for that bad advice???
-
Rondo, I see we both had the same thought almost at the same time, of what John & Bull pointed out!
And these comments here need to be taken very seriously. No one can read every post made on FB, so there's no telling how much false and potential damaging info is out there that could indeed lead to someone getting injured or worse.
And to a lesser extent, what if someone follows bad advice and it ends up destroying a $2000.00 muzzleloading firearm and that person who's pride and joy goes to court over it not only naming the person who gave him/her the bad advice, but also names TMA Facebook as well for providing a platform for that bad advice???
:hairy :hairy
-
I read the same thread and all I can say is... wow. There are some folks out there who will make a mountain out of a mole hill or pass out completely erroneous information.
That said, I think getting out of social media is a mistake. It's a fact of modern life that many of the people we'd like to reach and introduce to shooting our favorite type of guns are creatures of the times in that social media is a dominant form of communication. We have that issue over in the North South Skirmish Association to some degree. More than a few of our members don't do email, internet, forums or FB. You want new blood in the group, got to use the communications channels commonly in use. Last time I looked, morse telegraphy, semaphore and smoke signals are not used for common modern communications. So perhaps if someone could curate that FB group to weed out misinformation? Just trying to think of a way to keep an internet presence for black powder shooting and tamp down the misinformation.
-
Now that I've been away from Facebook for awhile, I'm wondering if there is a vetting process that can be done for folks to post to the TMA page?
I agree that we need a presence but maybe it could be a page were folks could come and see that we can have answers to their questions on this site, and not allow posts to the page?
-
Now that I've been away from Facebook for awhile, I'm wondering if there is a vetting process that can be done for folks to post to the TMA page?
I agree that we need a presence but maybe it could be a page were folks could come and see that we can have answers to their questions on this site, and not allow posts to the page?
Rob has mentioned a facebook "read only" page a few times, so that might be a possibility. :bl th up
-
Now that I've been away from Facebook for awhile, I'm wondering if there is a vetting process that can be done for folks to post to the TMA page?
I agree that we need a presence but maybe it could be a page were folks could come and see that we can have answers to their questions on this site, and not allow posts to the page?
Rob has mentioned a facebook "read only" page a few times, so that might be a possibility. :bl th up
I agree completely that TMA FB should only be used as a directional tool to bring folks and questions here to the Forum. As it stands now (IMHO) there is way to much "incorrect" info passing through those TMA FB Pages... I don't mind so much if Traditional Muzzleloading Clubs want to list their events there - that's fine... In fact, I would encourage that, just as they can post them here on the Forum.
-
that was great that ya stepped in to help that poor pilgrim, joe. :bl th up
unfortunately, to get any messages out the public these dayze, it requires social media intervention. social media is like fast food - a quick tasty satisfaction with lotsa calories and nothing substantially healthy for mind or spirit. i won't even get into the politics of those venues, it's sickening enuf.
i think it'd be a mistake to stop the TMA facebook page, but i also think much should be done to get those who are there over to here. we've hashed all this out numerous times, i can't go down that trail again, but i will always abide by the officers and BoD decisions.
-
I agree Rob... This is one issue that IMHO deserves a straight vote decision by the TMA BOD... You guys know my feelings on it. TMA Facebook to direct them here to the Forum, and I would be open to allowing folks to post their up coming events on it, as long as it comes through the Forum here, and those events are strictly related to Traditional Muzzle Loading only.
I would also add that if the organizer of a said Event - posts their event - they are responsible for answering any questions about "their" event and that means they had better patrol the required TMA Board here on the Form to do that...
-
I agree Rob... This is one issue that IMHO deserves a straight vote decision by the TMA BOD... You guys know my feelings on it. TMA Facebook to direct them here to the Forum, and I would be open to allowing folks to post their up coming events on it, as long as it comes through the Forum here, and those events are strictly related to Traditional Muzzle Loading only.
Since I've forfeited my BoD vote, all I can offer is my opinion,.... and my opinion is the same as Joe's. :bl th up
-
If I had a BoD vote, I'd vote with Joe.
-
that was great that ya stepped in to help that poor pilgrim, joe. :bl th up
unfortunately, to get any messages out the public these dayze, it requires social media intervention. social media is like fast food - a quick tasty satisfaction with lotsa calories and nothing substantially healthy for mind or spirit. i won't even get into the politics of those venues, it's sickening enuf.
i think it'd be a mistake to stop the TMA facebook page, but i also think much should be done to get those who are there over to here. we've hashed all this out numerous times, i can't go down that trail again, but i will always abide by the officers and BoD decisions.
That's some pretty good words right there!
TMA Facebook Page, the TMA's one and only Child has come of age, acting like a spoiled, rotten, unruly teenager, right alongside the rest of this fast-paced generation, and we don't know how to handle it.
Sound familiar?
Well, for what its worth, we are not alone in this fast-changing world.
Every Bulletin Board type Forum that I'm aware of, some that I once thought were far too big to ever fail, are all faced with this same unruly Child, this same dilemma.
Instant gratification is now being demanded, not just asked for.
Knowledge, accurate knowledge, of what we do best on an open, user-friendly Forum, is IMHO the very best way to off-set this.
Uncle Russ...
-
Facebook seems to have taken a different direction than internet forums, much like the modern inlines differ from traditional muzzleloaders.
-
Facebook seems to have taken a different direction than internet forums, much like the modern inlines differ from traditional muzzleloaders.
That is very true, and I agree with Russ' comment as well.
We don't have to put up with this "miss information" - our cure is to direct folks here to our Forum, if they so choose to take advantage of it... If not, so be it - but this "miss information" bs over on FB needs to end and we need to distant our organization from false & damaging info... The cure is simple; Read only and direct them here to the Forum... What those folks do with this directional information is up to them - but at least we (the TMA) will no longer be giving them a platform,,, and I'm of the opinion that some will be quick to take advantage of this - while it will take longer for others to come around to it...
We simply can no longer in good conscious can be part of this poor misguiding type of information...
PS... If it weren't for my wife telling me how to spell words correctly, I have no idea how the above would read... :laffing
-
FWIW, I (as admin of the page) like Joe have contacted the individual that originally posted this question, as I do with many individuals that I feel have been mis-led.
We have had these same issues on the forum, too, in the past. The difference is that we have 7400+ users in the TMA group.
If that group becomes read-only, those 7400 users will be out there without input from the handful of TMA "members" that actually are helpful contributors within the group.
-
FWIW, I (as admin of the page) like Joe have contacted the individual that originally posted this question, as I do with many individuals that I feel have been mis-led.
We have had these same issues on the forum, too, in the past. The difference is that we have 7400+ users in the TMA group.
If that group becomes read-only, those 7400 users will be out there without input from the handful of TMA "members" that actually are helpful contributors within the group.
i replied to your post over at the exec forum.
-
s20 party????? What is this?
-
I certainly agree 100% with you. We don't really need to be there.
this
-
I see there is more uneducated information floating around on that Facebook page this morning, once again someone telling someone their drum is ruined because the cleanout screw's head slot is burger'd up... The latest advice??? Pull the drum and replace it... It's a CVA bolster type set up and you absolutely do not mess with those - you'll never get it lined back up properly... All over a drum clean out screw that means absolutely nothing except to the sellers of these rifles trying to convince folks how much easier they will be to clean... Most (if practically all) original caplock muzzle loading "drum" firearms never had a clean-out screw...
So there goes another offshore muzzleloading rifle down the toilet 'cause that owner will never get that drum lined back up...
Yes, Facebook has to go... We don't need to have anything more to do with those Saturday morning self proclaimed experts over there...
-
I see there is more uneducated information floating around on that Facebook page this morning, once again someone telling someone their drum is ruined because the cleanout screw's head slot is burger'd up... The latest advice??? Pull the drum and replace it... It's a CVA bolster type set up and you absolutely do not mess with those - you'll never get it lined back up properly... All over a drum clean out screw that means absolutely nothing except to the sellers of these rifles trying to convince folks how much easier they will be to clean... Most (if practically all) original caplock muzzle loading "drum" firearms never had a clean-out screw...
So there goes another offshore muzzleloading rifle down the toilet 'cause that owner will never get that drum lined back up...
Yes, Facebook has to go... We don't need to have anything more to do with those Saturday morning self proclaimed experts over there...
and to boot, there never was an intended "clean out screw" for cap locks - it's a safety valve for when a bad load explodes and blows the out the bolster side instead of through the nipple and into the shooter's skull. there's nothing in the bolster/snail that can't be cleaned out by just removing the nipple, using solvents and elbow grease, which is why no such "clean out screws" existed on some bolsters.
-
I see there is more uneducated information floating around on that Facebook page this morning, once again someone telling someone their drum is ruined because the cleanout screw's head slot is burger'd up... The latest advice??? Pull the drum and replace it... It's a CVA bolster type set up and you absolutely do not mess with those - you'll never get it lined back up properly... All over a drum clean out screw that means absolutely nothing except to the sellers of these rifles trying to convince folks how much easier they will be to clean... Most (if practically all) original caplock muzzle loading "drum" firearms never had a clean-out screw...
So there goes another offshore muzzleloading rifle down the toilet 'cause that owner will never get that drum lined back up...
Yes, Facebook has to go... We don't need to have anything more to do with those Saturday morning self proclaimed experts over there...
and to boot, there never was an intended "clean out screw" for cap locks - it's a safety valve for when a bad load explodes and blows the out the bolster side instead of through the nipple and into the shooter's skull. there's nothing in the bolster/snail that can't be cleaned out by just removing the nipple, using solvents and elbow grease, which is why no such "clean out screws" existed on some bolsters.
Exactly Rob! :bl th up
-
I see there is more uneducated information floating around on that Facebook page this morning, once again someone telling someone their drum is ruined because the cleanout screw's head slot is burger'd up... The latest advice??? Pull the drum and replace it... It's a CVA bolster type set up and you absolutely do not mess with those - you'll never get it lined back up properly... All over a drum clean out screw that means absolutely nothing except to the sellers of these rifles trying to convince folks how much easier they will be to clean... Most (if practically all) original caplock muzzle loading "drum" firearms never had a clean-out screw...
So there goes another offshore muzzleloading rifle down the toilet 'cause that owner will never get that drum lined back up...
Yes, Facebook has to go... We don't need to have anything more to do with those Saturday morning self proclaimed experts over there...
I read the tea leaves about a FB group back when it was my last year as TMA VP, knew that if we opened one up that the paid membership for the TMA and the forum would suffer, landed on deaf ears, my forum the Horners Bench has suffered the same attendance and post count issues when one of my mods started the same, a FB page anouncing the TMA with a link to the forum was all the was ever needed, but......... hate to say I told you so!
-
Makes a feller wonder how many volumes could be filled with all the misguided information floating around on Facebook.
I expect those nonsense Nancy that spew the wrong info have been setting back laughing their butt's off for years...
-
Makes a feller wonder how many volumes could be filled with all the misguided information floating around on Facebook.
I expect those nonsense Nancy that spew the wrong info have been setting back laughing their butt's off for years...
Or, is it a situation of not knowing that they don't know that they don't know? I'd be willing to bet that is the situation.
-
Makes a feller wonder how many volumes could be filled with all the misguided information floating around on Facebook.
I expect those nonsense Nancy that spew the wrong info have been setting back laughing their butt's off for years...
Or, is it a situation of not knowing that they don't know that they don't know? I'd be willing to bet that is the situation.
I'm more liable to think that way too, John. They probably are ignorant of the proper care and feeding of a black powder firearm. It may be that they aren't just being a horse's rear. But that they didn't learn "the right way" and are just passing along what they know. It just happens to be incorrect.
Still doesn't mean that the TMA won't be called to the carpet if some poor, misguided chap blows his drum through the head of the fellow standing next to him.
-
My view of Facebook is;
Those who came up with Facebook had every intention of pulling everyone they possibly could away from all the public media bases, (Forms, open Blogs, and whatever the others may be or were) without any regard to the content material (good or bad) being posted on Facebook user posts...
So, in this sue happy world - who's responsible for the wrong information? Facebook, the Forum supporting Facebook, the Facebook user? Well, there's a very good chance it could be ruled (if it ever happened - the latter two) because they (Facebook) have the bucks to buy the Attorneys needed to sell their innocence of any incident that may happen in the future.
I could go on but I think we all get the idea... The little guy is the one that's going to get the blame, and have to pay the piper... Not Facebook...
-
Judicious locking of threads. Perhaps adding to the rules there about "no internet gunsmithing". Some of those goobers are crazy.
-
I am not defending any of those posts on facebook, but we have had those same self-proclaimed experts ahow up in the forums here. When that happened, they were corrected and "shone the light". I do what I can, and appreciate others here that try to correct those "experts". Rolling our eyes and saying "Oh look, another one" doesn't really serve anyone, or our greater good...
-
Unfortunately, the problem with Facebook is that when the correct answer or alternative is give to one's question, it gets buried with the same incorrect answer - over and over... No one can patrol such a media base like that with all the post made there that continue on giving out uneducated answers to (in this case we speak of) the weekend know it all gunsmith that has no idea what they're talking about... The person seeking information should be given correct information from the get go, and not; poor, false, misleading, and dangerous information... It's much easier and safer to get the correct response from here at the TMA Forum. :shake
-
moot point
-
I'm new here. I think this is my second post.Years ago I got on FB and enjoyed renewing old acquaintances for a time. Due to FB's constant restrictions, changes in procedure, etc., I removed myself from their hassles and for the last 13 years or so have lived comfortably without them. Now, I'm hearing they're into censorship and politics. FWIW I just don't do FB. However, I'm willing to pay to learn from y'all.
-
Welcome Woodburner :shake
Nice to see you here. Poke around and jump in where you like. This Forum is the place to be for good straight talk and information sharing. :shake
-
I'm new here. I think this is my second post.Years ago I got on FB and enjoyed renewing old acquaintances for a time. Due to FB's constant restrictions, changes in procedure, etc., I removed myself from their hassles and for the last 13 years or so have lived comfortably without them. Now, I'm hearing they're into censorship and politics. FWIW I just don't do FB. However, I'm willing to pay to learn from y'all.
Welcome Woodburner!
I do like that name, has a neat dull ring to it, if ya know what I mean.
Jump in wherever you like.
You got questions, we got answers. The right answer, not something we read somewhere else or picked up in another conversation.
Glad to have ya!
Uncle Russ...
-
I'm new here. I think this is my second post.Years ago I got on FB and enjoyed renewing old acquaintances for a time. Due to FB's constant restrictions, changes in procedure, etc., I removed myself from their hassles and for the last 13 years or so have lived comfortably without them. Now, I'm hearing they're into censorship and politics. FWIW I just don't do FB. However, I'm willing to pay to learn from y'all.
Access to our forum is FREE,.... when someone chooses to contribute to the TMA with a $15.00 TMA Membership, that money either goes back to our TMA contributing members, and/or towards those qualifying for our youth grants.
Welcome to the TMA. :shake
-
so you want to shut down the face book (notice i took the time to write it out instead of using a bunch of letters for the non computer folks to try to figure out ) page all well and good? the first problem i see is our site! nowhere on the web have i found a site as difficult to navigate as this one it needs help, and no i don't have the skill to fix it,sorry. second problem is who determines who is the be all answer person there are thousands of ways to fix, make, adjust.......etc. any thing. after 25+ years of building guns and 21yrs of machining parts in a factory (most of which were for 60 year old + machines ) i'm still learning.
my second question is if your making this change shouldn't it be a decision of the paying membership? if the members have no say then why are we members? like the cancelling of the postal matches? what are we members for?
-
... the first problem i see is our site! nowhere on the web have i found a site as difficult to navigate as this one it needs help, and no i don't have the skill to fix it,sorry.
second problem is who determines who is the be all answer person there are thousands of ways to fix, make, adjust.......etc. any thing. after 25+ years of building guns and 21yrs of machining parts in a factory (most of which were for 60 year old + machines ) i'm still learning. ...
FIRST - precisely and exactly what is it about forum navigation that you in particular find difficult?
SECOND - that would be ME.
i await yer answers, sir.
-
my second question is if your making this change shouldn't it be a decision of the paying membership? if the members have no say then why are we members? like the cancelling of the postal matches? what are we members for?
Lynn, the postal matches have been re'opened... :shake
-
nowhere on the web have i found a site as difficult to navigate as this one
Wow, that's the opposite of my experience! I find this site a lot easier to use than say, Greybeard Outdoors which I was a regular on until they changed servers.
The membership funds go towards the youth grants, and I'm all for getting more kids involved with traditional muzzle loaders.
Kees
-
I have been an avid muzzleloading message board surfer for a long time. Facebook is a different kind of critter, and it seems to attract a lot of newbies that are excited but virtually clueless. Back before Facebook, All of the Message Boards (like this one) were thought of in a similar vein by the old gray beards in the hobby. Those great old guys did not waste any time pushing a mouse around, but spent more time in the woods, teaching the greenhorns around a campfire.
Facebook might be a good magnet to get new interest in the hobby and also a buffer to filter the riff-raff. Just have to recognize what tool does what best, and not try to expect too much out of any of them. Neither are an adequate substitute for fresh mountain air and a crackling wood fire.
Ken
-
:hairy