Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Accoutrements => Topic started by: ridjrunr on June 13, 2020, 01:08:12 PM
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I bought a really nice rt hand horn a couple weeks ago at a junk shop,it had core removed. Ended up having nice color and was nice size. The left side carry horn was there as well but still had a skeletal core. I went back today and picked it up even though its the left carry side.
My question is, this horn is dried very well , and it not being a solid core remaining, what is the best way to remove this core? Is boiling at this stage still the best way? Or, can I pour boiling water into the horn to get the core to separate?
Thanks in advance for any input.
Ridjrunr
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This guy explains the process better than I can, and you get a "visual". :hairy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHPG6B0_mCY
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Thanks Rondo, this guy made quick work of it for sure.
Thanks for posting that. :toast
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Sorry but that horn has zero personality. I would have thrown it into the reject bin. But, I am kind of picky about the horns I work with. I guess it would have done for a drinking horn, but not a powder horn. On the next video in the series where the fellow is making a powder horn, he mentioned it would be good for a couple of shots. Good grief, man, how much powder do you use? I thought I used lots of powder, but really.
Guess I am just in a negative mood tonight, sorry.
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This is the first one I got,before and then after a little scraping to reveal color. [ Invalid Attachment ] [ Invalid Attachment ]
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There's many a fine looking horns out there in this hobby that are works of art, no doubt about it - and they are mighty handsome for sure... :bl th up
As for myself, I'm in the plain "Jane" horn category, always have been - probably always will be... But that's just me. :bl th up
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Looks like you did a mighty fine job on that horn, my friend. Mighty fine.
You know, in my so called career as a powder horn maker, I have made literally thousands of horns. I never really kept track of them, but Mrs Smoke used to pay me a dollar a horn. I work cheap. :lol sign Judging by what I estimate I spent that money on, two new snowmobiles, new tracks for each and some engine mods on each plus all the costs involved in going places every year, Yellowstone, Seeley Lake, MT, Lolo Pass, and many other destinations, I am putting my estimated count at about 35,000 to 36,000 horns. And yet, with that one horn, you have surpassed how many horns I hand scraped. I just never did that at all. Belt sanders always worked best for me. Started out with a 1", then graduated to a 2". Tried a 3" and a 4", but those gave me no joy. I had a 2 horse motor on that sander and it was just too tiring working on that.
Whoops, I totally mis-spoke. I did hand scrape one horn. I went to a horn making class at the West Coast Horn Fair presented by Art deCamp and we had to hand scrape our horn. I got home, went out into my shop and kissed my belt sander. Never again for the scraping. Gee, if I hand scraped every horn that I worked on, my production would have been limited to maybe two a day, maybe on an energetic day I could squeeze in three. Besides the fact I couldn't do it, I wouldn't do it. If nothing else, it's a matter of practicality.
As I have said many times before, there is a big difference between the hobby side of horn making and the production side of it.
Again, looks like you did a great job on that horn so far. Anxious to see how it turns out.
John (Bigsmoke)
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Looks like you did a mighty fine job on that horn, my friend. Mighty fine.
You know, in my so called career as a powder horn maker, I have made literally thousands of horns. I never really kept track of them, but Mrs Smoke used to pay me a dollar a horn. I work cheap. :lol sign Judging by what I estimate I spent that money on, two new snowmobiles, new tracks for each and some engine mods on each plus all the costs involved in going places every year, Yellowstone, Seeley Lake, MT, Lolo Pass, and many other destinations, I am putting my estimated count at about 35,000 to 36,000 horns. And yet, with that one horn, you have surpassed how many horns I hand scraped. I just never did that at all. Belt sanders always worked best for me. Started out with a 1", then graduated to a 2". Tried a 3" and a 4", but those gave me no joy. I had a 2 horse motor on that sander and it was just too tiring working on that.
Whoops, I totally mis-spoke. I did hand scrape one horn. I went to a horn making class at the West Coast Horn Fair presented by Art deCamp and we had to hand scrape our horn. I got home, went out into my shop and kissed my belt sander. Never again for the scraping. Gee, if I hand scraped every horn that I worked on, my production would have been limited to maybe two a day, maybe on an energetic day I could squeeze in three. Besides the fact I couldn't do it, I wouldn't do it. If nothing else, it's a matter of practicality.
As I have said many times before, there is a big difference between the hobby side of horn making and the production side of it.
Again, looks like you did a great job on that horn so far. Anxious to see how it turns out.
John (Bigsmoke)
Big Smoke, that number of horns is just mind boggling and im sure I would power everything I could if in that position. My hats off to you!
I did knock down the scales with my 1"x40 but then went rt to the scraper, just wanted a quick idea of the coloration that was on the horn. But I do enjoy using hand tools whenever and where ever I can in this hobby. The only other time I Use sandpaper, is if I get chatter marks from my scraper and cant git rid of them. I dont like buying sandpaper, and the best paper I have came out of estate sales that were the home of a dedicated woodworking, quality stuff. This is after my belt sand operation which took only 5 min.mor so.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Anyways, the video above is removing core from what appears to be a fresh horn. Have you ever removed an old dried out skeletal core? I guess I should just try the same method.
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No, No, silly boy, I meant after it had become a real life powder horn. Not just a horn blank. :Doh!
But take your time and don't rush it, OK?
John (Big Smoke)
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Big Smoke, that number of horns is just mind boggling and im sure I would power everything I could if in that position. My hats off to you!
I did knock down the scales with my 1"x40 but then went rt to the scraper, just wanted a quick idea of the coloration that was on the horn. But I do enjoy using hand tools whenever and where ever I can in this hobby. The only other time I Use sandpaper, is if I get chatter marks from my scraper and cant git rid of them. I dont like buying sandpaper, and the best paper I have came out of estate sales that were the home of a dedicated woodworking, quality stuff. This is after my belt sand operation which took only 5 min.mor so.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Anyways, the video above is removing core from what appears to be a fresh horn. Have you ever removed an old dried out skeletal core? I guess I should just try the same method.
The guy claims (in the video) the core is "dry",.... and the horn had been removed from it's original owner about 6 months prior.
But I agree,.... the core probably wasn't as "dry" as if it had been layin' around for a year or more. :bl th up
I'm pretty sure the boiling method will still work to sort'a "reconstitute" the core in your horn and to help loosen it up.
Cutting the horn back a bit (approx. 1/2") from the end like he did, is the best way to get a grip on the core, so you can put some twist to it. :bl th up
The "dry" cores I've removed, were probably about the same age as the one in the video. :bl th up
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Anyways, the video above is removing core from what appears to be a fresh horn. Have you ever removed an old dried out skeletal core? I guess I should just try the same method.
Nope, hand sanding and core removal are on the same level for me. I always bought cored, cleaned and polished horns. It was sure worth whatever extra cost it was. Besides, I could never find a reliable, domestic source for the tons of horns that I have gone through I did buy unpolished horns for quite a while, until the hoof and mouth problem in 2001. Then I was forced to buy polished horns, it was easier and less expensive than bringing in raw horns. If they were raw, I would have had to ship them via a bonded carrier to an USDA approved establishment to have them boiled in water for 20 minutes, then sprayed with some substance, packed up and then sent to me. Or, I could have had them sanded and polished for an additional $0.50 each. The answer was simple. Polish them there. Man, I would not have wanted that job, sanding horns all day. Talk about a back breaker. Wow !!! Even though the horns were already sanded and polished, I always sanded them as a process of making the powder horn. I was already sanding the nose of the horn down to about 1/2" diameter anyway, so it was just as easy to finish the job. Besides, I liked to bring the thickness of the horn base down to even all around the horn. They round much easier that way.
That's my story, such as it is.
John
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Thats interesting and makes sense. Also, so many domestic cattle are now bred to not have horns. I kind of like taking it from rough, kind of like unwraping something to see what you get. But im lucky if I do more than 3-4 a yr. with other projects mixed in.
Im planning on building this horn into a PA screw tip inspired by a horn in Art DeCamps book.
This summer heat isnt helping any though.
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That looks like it should make a good screw tip or applied tip horn. Its got good lines for it.
Better yet, why not take one of Art's classes? He's a good teacher and he really knows his stuff.
You could probably buy one of his horns for what he charges for the class, but what's the fun in that.
John
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Ive given alot of thought to the Western Kentucky Univ. classes, thats probably the only one within reach logistically. I dont know if Art teaches there or not. The rifle building classes are ones Ive considered first but a horn class would be great as well.
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Wow, Western Kentucky University teaches a class on rifle building?
I sure cannot imagine the University of California ever teaching a class like that. And I will stop there else I get in trouble by making political statements on this forum.
John (Bigsmoke)
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I should restate its at their facility but may or may not be an actual Univ. program. But there is rifle building,pistol, blacksmithing, horn work and if im not mistaken, weaving and other old time trades are taught and covered. I think they go with whoever they can get to head up and teach a class.
Something I wish the HCH would do, rotate programs around the country. Seems everything is in Wa, OH or PA yr after yr. maybe its a logistics thing costing too much or maybe its because the majority of members are concentrated there. But HCH is still a great organization.
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Regarding the HCH's annual meeting in PA, I have attended it in Ohio, Virginia and one other place that slips my mind right now. Seems like that is happening much too often these days. Anyway, it was decided to hold it in PA and has been there every since. I think it was in 2010 that I approached the Board and inquired about having a west coast meeting, as there were many people on the west coast that would like to attend, but for whatever reason, they could not. I would think that the cost of transportation and room and board were the primary reasons. Anyway, they agreed in principal and granted me a sum of money to do a couple of mailings with, but other than that, they did not want to be associated with it. Period.
So, I said fine, we'll go ahead and do it on our own, we really don't need you. So, mailers were sent out, plans were made and we had our first West Coast Horn Faire. That was in Washington. The next year we held it in California. And the next year we held it near to Olympia, WA. That was a perfect location, and it has been there ever since. About the time of that horn fair, I decided it was kind of a problem for me to be the head of the event, so I turned it over to the Washington Historical Gunmaker's Guild and they have had a firm grip on the reins ever since. A few years ago, they started bringing in guest teachers and it has been great. Then COVID-19 hit this year and the event was not held.
So, my opinion is that if a person wants something to happen, the best way to have it happen is to organize it yourself. That's just the simplest way of handling it. If you can put it together with a parent organization, so much the better.
The West Coast group decided a few years ago that it would be good to expand the Faire and call it the West Coast Horn and Accouterments Faire. Good idea there.
Have fun with it.
John
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I agree that would be a good way to go. I just dont know how many horners would be game. I know of no HCH members in Ks but thats not to say there isnt. There is a smallish gunmakers guild up east of KC that has some get togethers. May have to investigate that idea more.
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Hey Dan, anymore progress on this horn? waiting to see the finished product !
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No Beaverman im afraid projects have realy almost come to a stop. Its like an oven in my shop and sweat running in my eyes just doesnt do it for me.
That and just many other things have just gotten in the way.
Perhaps it will give me more time to look through my books and decide just what I want to make of it.🙂
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Been looking for a rifle to pop up with all that new lumber you got awhile back. ;)
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Been looking for a rifle to pop up with all that new lumber you got awhile back. ;)
Haha Hank! I have to finish that pistol first🥴but you are correct!