Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Winter Hawk on November 05, 2020, 10:33:09 PM
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I copied this over years ago, I don't remember from where but it was written by the original Gatofeo. It includes a history of the lube, and instructions for making it.
~Kees~
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kees,
nice read, I did substitute bison tallow since that was easy to get on the grocery run last night.
we'll see how she works.
at some point i'll make Gatefeo proper.
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Not to be pushy, but I think this would make a good "sticky"....
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"Bison tallow was easy to get on a grocery run"??? Kevin , what is the cost of living in your neck of the woods? I may want to move.
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Well there happens to be a bison farm near by, ya know support the local farmers . 10$ for 11oz.
They had duck, pork and beef too.
I make more money and pay less taxes than I ever did in New York .
Livin is easy in idaho ..
Kevin
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I couldn't get that link to open today but Rob D got me hooked on GF as a lube...
1:1: 1/2 (Lamb tallow:Gulf Wax: beeswax...
Sure beats messing with that Bore butter snot I used in PA with pre-cut patches up NE
I once asked Rob the Origin of the term GATO Feo and he informed me it meant "ugly cat"... I know many use spit patches at the range but till I couldn't get around well enough to hunt no mo, spit, as a hunter would have dried out in my patch block so the GF gets used consistently now
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Back in the days when I hunted the mountains of North Idaho and shot big bore rifles, my load consisted of Ffg powder, an OxYoke prelubed cushion wads and a round ball set in a prelubed OxYoke patch. That was only my hunting load. Never would I bother with that on the range, except pre hunting to make sure the rifle was still sighted in.
At the range, if I wasn't too serious about shooting well, I just spit patched. If I was a bit more intent on shooting well, then I would lube the patches with Ol' Thunder Patch Lube and cut the patch at the muzzle. Does that make a difference? I think so, as the year I won the top shooter award in the club is the year that I practiced that routine. It was 2000. Haven't really shot worth a darn since. But then, I haven't cut patches at the muzzle and I haven't used Ol' Thunder either. Go figure.
John (Bigsmoke)
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Ne'r heard of Old thunder lube, but, what I DON'T know would fill volumes...
I now use the GF lube and strips cut at the muzzle--- just haven't yet figured out the perfect load for that gun... eyes ain't gettin no better either
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It's available here - http://www.glaciertraditionalarchery.com/ol-thunder/ John Fredenburg is a long time member of the TMA and a long time friend of mine. Good stuff, tell him John (Bigsmoke) sent you.
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Thanks to the kindness of a fellow member i now have a powder horn and was able to get out and pop a few caps today.
I'm still fartin' around with load development and such on the .54 but what i really wanted to see was how the Gatofeo i made worked.
I have to say i am impressed so far with the limited shooting i did. had a nipple malfunction after 6 shots. I think the hole is too small and would plug up. i'll work on that.
The last shooting session i was seeing good groups ( 2-3") at 25 yds using beard balm as my lube , round ball and a .018 ticking patch .
50 thru 70 gr pyrodex.
all shots where about 2" high and 2" right . swabbed once between each shot, loading would get progressively harder as the number of shots increased.
today I switched to real black powder and a .010 muslin patch cut at the muzzle pre-soaked in Gatofeo I know that rubbing the Gatofeo into the patch then melting is the preferred method but i went ahead and soaked a few inches of muslin in the warm lube and then pulled the strip between my fingers to squeegee off the excess. after it cooled the strip had what i would consider a thick firm pliable coating. easy to handle.
I want to use .010 patches for the ease of loading, just thumb pressure, as i want to use this rifle for hunting so i want to be able to eliminate as many steps to loading as i can. no short starter .
3 shots of 55gr and 3 shots of 60gr Goex Ffg. i did not touch the iron sights after the last go round and today all 6 shots were centered and about 2" high. wow thats quite a difference .
Swabbed once between each shot, loading was easy, cleaning / swabbing was a breeze. so far so good.
The patches were in pretty good shape too.
The muzzleloader only season for Elk opens on the 20th of November so i'll be shooting and testing some more before then. hoping to get to 85-90 gr for that.
certainly impressed with Gatofeo so far but more testing will tell. very happy with The Holy Black as well. :pray:
Kevin
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Sounds like you're on the right track, Kevin. :bl th up
Just a potential observation;
As your charge increases, so might your patch thickness need increased to .015 / .018...
Read those .010 patches really good - as you don't want "blow by" with a thin patch (or any patch for that matter),,, and since you're using 2fg - it's a lot more forgiving on a patch then the 3fg... You'll have to see how that powder plays out.
Also, even if you would have to use a ball starter for loading - its been my experience hunting deer and antelope, that there's not a lot of noticeable time lost using a ball starter after the shot as long as you keep it handy to get to. In the end, it's what works best for you. :shake
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I agree with the patch thickness , I'll be testing patches after I get the load nailed down.
I have some other commercial 010 patches with a pre lube that were blown to shreds but the 010 muslin with gatofeo seem to be holding up much better.
Not sure if the thickness of the lube helps that or not.
We will see soon .
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I agree with the patch thickness , I'll be testing patches after I get the load nailed down.
I have some other commercial 010 patches with a pre lube that were blown to shreds but the 010 muslin with gatofeo seem to be holding up much better.
Not sure if the thickness of the lube helps that or not.
We will see soon .
I have found through my own tests with lubes and patches, as well as ball size, that ones patch lube does play a part. :bl th up
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My mother told me that I'd be late to my own funeral. Just living up to her prediction.
I met Gatofeo on another forum a long time ago, tried his lube. It works really well. I had never heard that 40 cal. was prone to fouling, so I never thought about it. With my Tip Curtis Southern Mountain Rifle, I would shoot our 25 target woods walk with the 25th loading no harder than the first. Never wiped out the bore during the course of the walk.
Had my daughter learning to shoot my Cherokee .32 with the same roll of patching, we shot until it was time for her to leave, same deal.
Maybe ignorance is bliss and now that I've learned that these small bore rifles foul more, I may not be able to load the second shot.
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The complete, stitched together, Gato Feo ("Ugly Cat") chronicle ramblings by Mr. Gato Feo himself ...
GATOFEO LUBE
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by weight ...
1 part mutton tallow (dixie gun works)
1 part canning wax (gulf)
1/2 part beeswax (strained, no bug parts please)
Yes, canning paraffin is a petroleum product, but it's also pure paraffin. There are no scents, unrelated oils, glitter, etc. such as are found in decorative or scented candles. It's pure, and that' why I specify it.
When I first began using canning paraffin, I too wondered why it didn't create the tarry fouling when used with black powder, as other petroleum products do. Fact is, I posed this question in various message boards years ago. A chemist provided what seems a plausible answer: Canning paraffin lacks the hydrocarbons found in other petroleum products. Apaprently, these hydrocarbons are the offender.
I'm no chemist, and I don't have access to a lab that could test for the presence of hydrocarbons, so I remain uncertain if what he said is true, opinion or S.W.A.G.
All I know is that canning paraffin -- the same translucent stuff that is melted and poured into the open mouths of preserve jars, does not create the hard, tarry fouling I typically find with other petroleum products (automotive grease, transmission fluid, rifle grease, lithium grease, etc.).
The natural greases (animal and vegetable in origin) also dissolve more easily in soapy water during cleaning. Petroleum grease resists dissolving and tends to float around in the water as tiny clumps, often sticking to the steel surfaces of guns and requiring additional cleaning.
Canning paraffin works. I can't explain it. The original 19th century factory recipe called for "paraffin" and that was the only description. There are different types of paraffin, but I chose canning paraffin for its purity and availability. Luckily, it worked just fine and I didn't have to search for a more esoteric paraffin.
Perhaps it lacks the hydrocarbons that are claimed to be the culprit. Perhaps not. But I do know that canning paraffin is the best paraffin I've found and it doesn't create a hard, tarry fouling when used with black powder.
I've made other variations of Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant with substituted ingredients, including old candles, and the resulting lubricant is not as good.
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The old recipe I found only listed:
Tallow
Paraffin
Beeswax
No specifics beyond these were given.
The recipe was originally used by factories for bullets that were outside lubricated, as found on heeled bullets. The only heeled bullets loaded by factories today are the .22 Short, Long and Long Rifle, and the .32 Short Colt (occasionally loaded by Winchester).
I used the above recipe and assembled it with mutton tallow, canning paraffin and beeswax because it's what I had on hand when I found the old recipe.
I have a Marlin Model 1892 rifle that uses heeled bullets, which I cast myself. After using the lubricant with .32 Long Colt reloads, I decided to try it with felt wads for my cap and ball revolvers, and patches for my CVA Mountain Rifle in .50 caliber.
Doing so, I was impressed with the old recipe assembled with mutton tallow, canning paraffin and beeswax. I've also used it with black powder loads and lead bullets in my .44-40 and .45-70 rifles, as well as .45 Long Colt revolver.
I used very specific ingredients, but didn't change the ratio of 10/10/5 parts.
I first posted the recipe -- with mutton tallow, canning paraffin and beeswax -- about 1999 or 2000 on many message boards. Shortly after posting it, someone dubbed it "Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant" and the name stuck.
Did the old factory recipe specify liquid or solid paraffin? I don't know. I suspect it was solid, because the lubricant must be sticky and solid, to stick to the bare, smooth lead of an outside-lubricated bullet not protected by the case. Only a very small portion of the bullet is inside the case -- the heel -- the rest of it is exposed to grit and lubricant wear-off while carried in pockets and game bags.
Modern .22 rimfire lubricant that covers the bullet is much harder and tenacious than the old factory recipe I found.
I suspect it's entirely wax of some type, with no grease or beeswax.
From what I've observed -- tiny teats on the point of the lead .22 bullet -- it's applied by dipping the completed cartridge upside down in melted wax up to where the bullet meets the brass case. Dipping in melted lubricant was the old method and is evidently still used today.
I know of liquid paraffin used for lamp fuel, but don't believe I've ever seen it. Perhaps I simply haven't recognized it.
Interestingly, one muzzleloading outfitter's site claims:
WARNING: Paraffin and other petroleum products can cause "Cook offs". It is neither fun nor healthy to have your musket unexpectedly fire while you are loading.
This is the first warning of this type I've seen, and I've been using black powder for nearly 40 years. I don't understand how a "cook-off" can be generated by paraffin. Does he mean it creates longer-lasting embers?
The age-old definition of "cook-off" means that the gun metal becomes so hot that the powder is ignited by this heat. This is a common problem in machine guns, and perhaps semi-autos fired quickly with a great deal of ammo, but in a black powder rifle?
The owner of the site clearly has a great deal of experience in black powder shooting, but i have to doubt this assertion. I've yet to hear of anyone experiencing unexpected ignition by using petroleum products. I and others have learned that most petroleum products, when used with black powder, create a hard, tarry fouling. Of this there is little doubt.
Canning paraffin lacks this characteristic. A chemist wrote me long ago that canning paraffin lacks the hydrocarbons that petroleum greases and oils contain. I don't know about this; I'm not a chemist, petroleum engineer or geologist. However, I DO know that I don't experience the hard, tarry fouling when using canning paraffin. Whatever it lacks or possesses, it's clearly different from other petroleum products.
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Smaller bores have lesser inside surface area to spread out about the same volume of black powder residue. That can mean "more" fouling will be addressed in a .40 than a .54 or larger. Maybe. All guns are at least fairly unique.
If the BP residue inside any bbl is either mostly removed and/or kept soft in a consistent manner, loading is easier and accuracy doesn't suffer. In fact, accuracy will be purty darned good, almost as if the bbl was fully cleaned between shots.
To not employ wiping fouling control between shots, that'd depend on the gun and the load. A loose loaded ball that has a well lubed GatoFeo thick patch usually works best for me. However, to keep the bp residue soft will require blowing down the barrel so that moist breath meets the residue.
I parallel the above with BPCR fouling control. I load and shoot .45-70 black powder, paper patched slicks (non lube grooved bullets). The difference between blow tubing and bbl wiping is night and day, for me, with regards to consistent accuracy at 200 to 800 yards - consistent wiping is by far the best. Even better if the wiping is done with a combination brush and wad (a "bore gopher"), where most of the residue is pushed out the muzzle from the breech end.
With regards to addressing trad muzzys and fouling control, there are many, Many considerations. We all need to experiment and see what the gun likes best.
One consideration, particularly with a new gun, or gun that hasn't had hundreds of rounds fired through it, is to "lap" the bbl with steel wool, as recommend by gunsmith Lee Shaver. This will clean up the chatter marks and any burrs left by the rifling cutters. Put an oiled patch over a jag, put a single layer of 0000 steel wool over the patch, and force push it all down and out the bore a buncha times. This may require using a smaller jag in order to get the right fit, where the rod will need bopping with a mallet to get it down past the muzzle and into the chamber. I just chuck the brass jag in a drill and file off increments and test out the fit along the way. I've done this on a number of muzzy bbls and it's made a significant difference with the offshore bbls.