Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Gambia on May 14, 2008, 01:25:38 PM

Title: Patches
Post by: Gambia on May 14, 2008, 01:25:38 PM: Ok, I know this has been talked about till the cows come home...but I need to get some answers so I do not make some major Boo-Boo's. After seeing the prices of unlubed patches at market fair, I decided I need to get punch cutters and a micrometer and start buying material by the yard.
The question is; I plan on using the geared end of the mic to measure the material, I need an .018 thickness patch, so,
1. What do I mic the material to in the store so I end up with a .018 patch?
2. Should I wash the material before I use it for patches, to get the sizing out?
3. What kind of material should I look for, Ticking, Denim, Canvas....
4. If I wash the material, will it mic differently after the washing?

OK, that should be enough for now....I am waiting for your responses...As always, Thanks in advance
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on May 14, 2008, 01:27:18 PM: Me too! getting tired of spending 3.50 plus for patches
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Post by: Chairslayer on May 14, 2008, 01:39:02 PM: I buy pillow ticking at JoAnns fabric, it usually mics between .017 an .020. I use a .525 ball in my .54, slightly coned and I don't use a short starter. Yes wash it to get the sizing out. On a side note, if you tear it into strips for patching, you can save all the strings that come off, and char them just like material. When you make your birds nest for fire starting, you can mix the fibers down into the nest and it will really catch a spark well.
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Post by: Groundhog on May 14, 2008, 09:49:33 PM: yup Griz' Chairslayer be right wash it first n get the sizin n starch out...
Forrester (sp) tool used to make a patch cutter... got one back ina box in that room full of valuable junk... pretty hard on the wrist when twisstun ... did not like it all that much.
I prefer pillow tickun for thicker patches and linen for thin ones... take multiple measurements and do the average... people will look at ya funny while you be measuring.
I think "Friscars" makes a neat cuttin board for cuttin fabric ya kin cut em square of triangle or any other neat shape but round ...
NOW ya kin shoot more with the money ya be savin' on de patches.
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Post by: Ohio Joe on May 14, 2008, 11:08:50 PM: I agree, the pillow ticking is the way to go. I buy the blue striped 100% cotton (the heavy stuff) from Wally World and it does vary in thickness (.017 to .020) is what I have found. For me, I have not noticed a differnce in this variness.

I purchased a 1 1/4" hole punch some years back from McMaster-Carr, and it has served me well cutting those 1.25 patches, and I use them in all my calibers from .40 to .54... Nice thing about it is you can punch out up to eight or ten at a time and that sure speeds up the process considerably.

I then melt my 1000+ bore butter in the microwave and dip everyother patch (make a stack of 20) then I squeeze out the lube and stick those 20 patches into an empty percussion cap tin, and throw them in my shooting bag for later.

I also spit patch so I cut my ticking into 2" wide x about 20" to 24" long strips then tie one of those strips around my shooting bag strap (up toward my chest) so it's handy to spit patch with during Rondy shoots and just plain ol' plinking outings. You can just keep one end in your mouth absorbing spit. :bl th up
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Post by: Gambia on May 15, 2008, 06:08:14 AM: Fellows, Thanks for the info, I gather that ifn' I get around a .017, Pillow Tickin' and wash it first before I start punchin' I should end up with a .015 or close to that patch and I will be good to go.
I ordered a punch from Campbell Bosworth company, cheapest place I found and ordered a C.S. Osborne punches. Dixie Gun works handles the same punch, but they didn't have the size I needed. Thanks again for the help.
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Post by: Ohio Joe on May 15, 2008, 08:49:59 AM: Morning Griz,

When I checked some of my material after washing out the sizing I found none that was less then .016, but mostly found it to be .017 with the occassionally higher .018 to .020... So I think you'll be alright.
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Post by: Gambia on May 15, 2008, 09:22:00 AM: Thanks Joe, I figured it owuld be a bit thinner after washing, which brings up another question, how many times should new material be washed to get out all the sizing? once or twice or....hopefully not more or the misses will think that I am being...Heaven forbid....domesticated :cry: :lol:
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Post by: melsdad on May 15, 2008, 09:26:44 AM: Tim, I don't know what size punch you were looking for but this is what I made. 1¼" dia. I could have made you one of these, but I see you ordered one already.
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee43/MELZDAD/MUZZLOADER/0101035.jpg)
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Post by: Gambia on May 15, 2008, 09:35:34 AM: How much are you talking to have them made...I may want to get spares. I would like a 1 1/16" and a 1 1/4"
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Post by: Ohio Joe on May 15, 2008, 10:18:41 AM: Griz, I just wash it once and go with that. :shake
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Post by: melsdad on May 15, 2008, 12:10:23 PM: Quote from: "griz"
How much are you talking to have them made...I may want to get spares. I would like a 1 1/16" and a 1 1/4"

I will bring it to the next shoot to see if you like it.
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Post by: Groundhog on May 15, 2008, 05:57:34 PM: Griz what ya need to come up with is a way to spin cut em on a drill press ... use maybe a nice thin peice of steel or brass ... spin down into material against a soft pine board ... kould dress up the cuttin edge right on the press.
Turn slow n watch ye ole bear claws !
I would soak the material first in warm water ... then wash... be good to go then.
keep the groups tight ...
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Post by: Gambia on May 16, 2008, 06:06:08 AM: Groundhog, wouldn't have to be careful about it catching and spinning the heck out of things. Seems kinda scary. But thats just me. I guess a hole saw with the teeth cut off would work. I need to see how slow my press will spin.

Brian, I am definitely interested in both sizes. How much do you think they would be and maybe I will be there with $$$ in hand. I even think Joe wants to order some, Price please
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Post by: melsdad on May 16, 2008, 11:11:00 AM: Quote from: "Groundhog"
Griz what ya need to come up with is a way to spin cut em on a drill press ... use maybe a nice thin peice of steel or brass ... spin down into material against a soft pine board ... kould dress up the cuttin edge right on the press.
Turn slow n watch ye ole bear claws !
I would soak the material first in warm water ... then wash... be good to go then.
keep the groups tight ...

The possible problem I see with this approach, besides the danger factor. Would be if your drill press did not spin at a low enough R.P.M. say 5-10 R.P.M. you would quickly burn the temper out of the cutting edge and ruin the tool.
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Post by: Gambia on May 16, 2008, 11:49:17 AM: I have been cutting them on a drill press for years,get a cheap holesaw grind the teeth off and sharpen it,back the drill bit up so it doesn't cut a hole in the fabric.Take a piece of thin plywood and drill a hole in it the same size as the hole saw clamp the fabric between the plywood and another board on the table, line up the hole saw with the hole in the plywood and drill away.Its takes a lot longer to descibe than to knock out a thousand patches.Then I discovered the wife's cutting board and rotary cutter so I cut square patches a lot easier.I can't see any difference in shooting results.You might want to buy an extra blade or two for the cutter so you don't upset the wife when she finds she has a dull cutter.
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Post by: Hank in WV on May 16, 2008, 05:19:52 PM: I agree with Charlie. I switched from cutting round patches to square about 4yrs ago. For me it seems to be a lot faster and easier. I'm also often backwards from the rest of the world.
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Post by: Groundhog on May 16, 2008, 06:59:24 PM: I can still count to ten ... lol
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Post by: Stormrider51 on May 23, 2008, 04:31:57 PM: No offense, but would somebody please explain to me the advantage of pre-cut patches? The closest I've ever come to using something like that was when I'd fill a loading block. Otherwise I just short-start and cut at the muzzle to get a perfectly centered patch every time. A strip of patch material tied to a leather whang on the front of my shooting bag does the trick. Again, I'm not trying to cause offense. I'm just trying to see the great advantage.

Storm
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Post by: Hank in WV on May 23, 2008, 05:45:04 PM: Not sure there is any advantage to pre-cut but I like to pre-lube. I carry them in a little tin in my shootin bag.
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Post by: Hank in WV on May 23, 2008, 05:45:33 PM: Not sure there is any advantage to pre-cut but I like to pre-lube. I carry them in a little tin in my shootin bag.
Welcome to the forum.
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Post by: Francois on June 09, 2008, 03:05:45 AM: 100% pure cotton works for me. It doesnt tear or burst at all, not even a scratch.
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Post by: melsdad on June 09, 2008, 05:04:01 AM: Quote from: "Hank in WV"
Not sure there is any advantage to pre-cut but I like to pre-lube. I carry them in a little tin in my shootin bag.
Welcome to the forum.

I do the same as Hank.

I gave Griz his patch cutters this weekend. Once I find out how they work, if anyone wants any I will be glad to make them in what ever sizes you need.
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Post by: Wyoming Mike on June 09, 2008, 07:57:59 AM: I have never seen any difference between round or square patching as far as shooting goes. I use a sharpened hole saw and drill press to make round patches. As Charlie said, it takes no time at all to do a 1000 patches. I did the round patches because I can seem to cut a straight line with scissors. BTW trapezoidal patches work fine too.
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Post by: Chairslayer on June 09, 2008, 10:42:11 AM: Don't cut the pillow ticking, tear it along the blue lines. When you attach it to your strap all you have to do cut a 'buttonhole' in the end and thread it back through. Save the strings that come off when you tear the strips and char them, they make great fire starting material.
Title: Shape of Patch?
Post by: Dragoon on June 09, 2008, 03:01:04 PM: I watched the use of several variations on this during the weekend. First, I saw someone using the "cut and spit" method, cutting off a small 1-1.25 inch square of material and wetting it in their mouth. Seemed to work (not round).

The other was round spit patching (unlubed manufactured patches were used)

Then there were the round manufactured ones that had moose milk on them.

So, round or square?
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on June 09, 2008, 03:59:30 PM: Both will work, depends on you and your saliva output, you know what I like to use.
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Post by: melsdad on June 10, 2008, 05:09:10 AM: Here are what the patch cutters look like. They are made of A2 tool steel hardened to 59 Rc. The ends are drawn to 48 Rc. to prevent chipping if a metal hammer is used. One is 1.0625" diameter, the other is 1.250"diameter.

Tim should be trying these soon, the idea is to cut through multiple layers of ticking to produce patches quickly.

(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee43/MELZDAD/KNIVES/00028048.jpg)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee43/MELZDAD/KNIVES/00028049.jpg)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee43/MELZDAD/KNIVES/00028050.jpg)
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Post by: Mike 56 on July 01, 2008, 01:08:07 PM: I tried pillow ticking but found it was to thick for my rifle right now i am using cotton flannel from a old nightgown it's just right for my rifle. Try different things until you find what your rifle likes. For lube i have had the best luck with Windex or spit. I just cut my patches with a rotary cutter and quilt cutting Board also. I just cut them square i get the same accuracy as cutting them muzzle. My two cents.

Mike