Post by: Minnesota Mike on July 02, 2008, 02:15:31 PM
He asked why not start at 100 yds and then drop down powder loads as you went to 50 yds and then 25 yds.
- blink - blink -
Not often am I caught offguard without a fairly decent answer . . . somehow "cuz dat's how weez alwuz dun et" just doesn't seem to be the more intellignet and articulate answer I hoped I should be able to give.
In short . . . HELP! Need a decent answer to go back with on this . . . or is there a better answer . . .?
r/
MM
Post by: Loyalist Dave on July 02, 2008, 02:25:48 PM
For eleveation..., you may be dead-nuts on at 100 yards, but 4" high at 50 yards, and you need to know this, or at 25 you're right on, and at 50 you're about 1" low, but at 100 as the velocity drops off you may drop say 4", so again you'd need to know this to adjust your powder charge, and/or point of aim.
LD
Post by: jbullard1 on July 02, 2008, 02:28:02 PM
With open sights I work 25,50,75 then 100
fuzzy as me eyes are and shaky as me arms are I will seldom take a shot on game over 75 yards
Post by: Minnesota Mike on July 02, 2008, 03:14:04 PM
Quote from: "Loyalist Dave"
For windage...., because if you are off of the bullseye at 25 yards the error may multiplied x4 at 100 yards, so depending on the size of the target board, if you are 6" right of the bull at 25 then you may be as much as 24" right, and miss the board, at 100 yards.
For eleveation..., you may be dead-nuts on at 100 yards, but 4" high at 50 yards, and you need to know this, or at 25 you're right on, and at 50 you're about 1" low, but at 100 as the velocity drops off you may drop say 4", so again you'd need to know this to adjust your powder charge, and/or point of aim.
LD
Yeah - but that almost helps prove his case. If you're on at 100 yds, then when you come down to 50 yds and then 25 yds the degree of error off the target will be less and easier to spot.
So sight in at 100 yards first. Then move to 50 yds and adjust. Then to 25 yds.
Issue is not whether to sight in or not, but why start at 25 and go to 100 instead of start at 100 and go to 25 . . .
r/
MM
Post by: Riley/MN on July 02, 2008, 04:11:15 PM
If you're off at 25, the amount should be small enough that you're still on the board and can make adjustments.
So start where a MOA is only 1/4"
Post by: vermontfreedom on July 02, 2008, 06:46:39 PM
the errors of the rifle and of the shooter are magnified at greater distances. when combined, the effects are multiplied
would you try to sight in your modern centerfire rifle at 500 yards and then drop it down to 200 then 50 - no, that's bonkers
start at 25, he'll immediately know if his groups are printing left, right, up, down. PRECISION is the key for groups at short yardage, especially when starting out with a new firearm or new load. once the precision is worked out, accuracy can be improved by adjusting sights and practice
a bunch of gusty wind along with variation in charge load, patch thickness, seating, and just plain old shaky hands or bad eyesight or poorly supported rifle (e.g., supporting only the forestock and not butt as well), and his group will be all over the place
for example...imagine a rifle that prints 2 inches left and 2 inches low. throw in a whole bunch of variation as aforementioned and the group might be 8 inches at 100 yards - likely all over the place with no sense that it's low and left
shoot the group at 25 yards and the errors of distance reduce the errors of shake and poor support, etc.
a more extreme example I have comes from when I helped a father and son sight in an old .32-40 at the range a few years ago. they had their target out there at 100 yards (iron sights). couldn't even hit paper. what are you supposed to do then - keep guessing? course not. I told them to move the paper back to 25 yards and figure out just where the heck the bullets were going. sure enough, the rifle was shooting like 18 inches high at 25 yards.
Post by: Minnesota Mike on July 03, 2008, 09:57:53 AM
Quote from: "Riley/MN"
cuz if you're far enuff off at a hunert you won't know where the ball went.
If you're off at 25, the amount should be small enough that you're still on the board and can make adjustments.
So start where a MOA is only 1/4"
Ahh . . . simplicity.
r/
MM
Post by: the Black Spot on July 08, 2008, 05:35:32 PM
Post by: Loyalist Dave on July 08, 2008, 07:01:45 PM
Quote
If you're on at 100 yds, then when you come down to 50 y
Ah yes, IF you're on at 100 great! But if you're not on the board let alone near the bull, how do you know where you hit? Especially if you're shootin' alone? The kick and the smoke will obscure any impact on the berm.
LD
Post by: Gambia on July 09, 2008, 06:48:49 AM
Quote from: "the Black Spot"
i usually sight in a 15 yards, then you are pretty much dead on at 75 yards, and about 2" low at a 100 yards.
I think this is neat that you mentioned this. Not too many folks have ever heard of the 15 or 14 yard shoot in rule. I have tried it and it sure does work. It took a little getting used to shootin at something so close you could spit on it, but it works.
Post by: Big John on July 09, 2008, 07:53:09 AM
Post by: Minnesota Mike on July 09, 2008, 10:17:05 AM
r/
MM
Post by: mike rumping on July 09, 2008, 04:32:56 PM
Post by: PeashooterJoe on July 10, 2008, 10:59:50 AM