Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: butterchurn on July 17, 2008, 10:31:52 AM

Title: Shootin' Shot
Post by: butterchurn on July 17, 2008, 10:31:52 AM

I'm going to try shot outta my smoothie.  I decided to try two over powder cards then shot then over shot card as my first load combo.  Do you lube the cards?

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Post by: Minnesota Mike on July 17, 2008, 11:08:56 AM

Not sure about others - but I was recently taught - first overpowder card is dry, second overpowder card is lubed, over shot card is dry.

Caution when pushing down the over shot card. With the powder and over powder cards in place, there is no where for the air to escape to that you are compressing as you ram the over shot card. So your ramrod can come flying back up the barrel at you - very . . . interesting . . . the first time it happened to me. Got a chuckle out of it.

Have fun.

r/
MM

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Post by: Gambia on July 17, 2008, 12:33:44 PM

As MM said keep the first card dry as for the second it is not really necessary but if you have set your mind on a second one  yes it can be lubed ,this can be done by putting  spittle on a dry card before you enter it in the muzzle.The main cause of compression when ramming home the wad is first the wad is over size and also the bore is fouling up.this can be overcome if you cut a small V in the edge of the card wad.
Feltwad
                    ----------------------
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

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Post by: Uncle Russ on July 17, 2008, 12:48:15 PM

I agree with Feltwad. I'm not totally sure of the need for lube on the second card, but I don't see where it could hurt....I also use spit quite a bit.....unless I'm chewing my Red Man!

I cut both of the first two cards, just cut about 1/16" on the corner of the card with a straigth cut in about three places with a razor blade, that seems to aleviate most of the pressure problem of the rod coming back, and being hard to seat, yet it seems to maintain enough pressure to keep everything well seated.

I do like the feel of a fairly "tight" fit on the OS card, as it kinda gives me the assurance that the shot is not going to come loose and just fall out when hunting.  

Uncle Russ...

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Post by: chuckpa on July 17, 2008, 01:33:22 PM

What I do to relieve the air pressure when ramming is to punch a small hole in the cards with an ice pick.

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Post by: 62flint on July 17, 2008, 02:49:18 PM

The lube on the second card is simply a effort to keep fouling soft.

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Post by: Minnesota Mike on July 17, 2008, 03:03:26 PM

Russ - Don't let the anyone catch you shootin shot at critters with Redman juice on it . . . you'll get in trouble with EPA, SPCA, and anyone you invited to dinner . . . that stuff is just plain nasty!

r/
MM

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Post by: Uncle Russ on July 17, 2008, 04:29:32 PM

Quote from: "Minnesota Mike"

Russ - Don't let the anyone catch you shootin shot at critters with Redman juice on it . . . you'll get in trouble with EPA, SPCA, and anyone you invited to dinner . . . that stuff is just plain nasty!

r/
MM

 :rotf

Uncle Russ...

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Post by: Capt. Jas. on July 17, 2008, 04:47:34 PM

The lube is to help keep the fouling soft as stated above. I think it helps greatly.

I have recently had good luck with a cushion wad cut in half and lubing both, one for over powder and one for over shot. Patterns were good with no holes but I have not tried it for penetration. Sure does keep from folling with a bunch of extra stuff.  

You only ned to lube the sides of the cards or wads.

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Post by: Gambia on July 17, 2008, 05:25:52 PM

A lubed felt or cushion wad is a shooters own choice ,personally I do find that they are unnecessary all I use is a 1/8 card over powder wad, and a 1/16 overshot card wad,this is all I use when engaged with pest control and shooting big bags,this can be  100 shots or more per outing.  A coked barrel will shoot better the only time you will need to remove fouling is when you have difficulty in ramming home the wads.
If a lubed felt wad is used it should be between two card wads other wise it will blow your pattern ,it can also become a projectile if shot is forced into the felt wad, this will travel a greater distance than shot,I have seen both wing and ground game shot in half when this occurs.
Feltwad
                     ------------------------
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

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Post by: mario on July 17, 2008, 07:36:43 PM

I use a "turd".  

Simply a bore sized paper cartridge with my shot charge in it. When rammed down, a little pop spreads it enough that it stays put. Dip it in lube beforehand. It also helps keep your pattern tighter.

Or I just use some grass over the powder and over the loose shot...

Mario

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Post by: butterchurn on July 18, 2008, 12:07:08 AM

Thanks for the info, everyone.  I'll give your advice a try.

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Post by: No Rod on July 18, 2008, 06:51:07 PM

for the over shot card I just give it a little bite to keep it from popping out. that will work for those of us with at least 2 teeth!  :lol:

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Post by: Minnesota Mike on August 21, 2008, 02:17:53 PM

So how did things work out?

Just bought a sizable amount of shot . . . only comes in 25lb bags . . . need oxygen . . .

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Seems that shooting shot fouls up the barrel pretty quick. End up swabbing out about every three shots. Any advice on how to cut down the fouling?

r/
MM

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Post by: rickevans on August 21, 2008, 09:17:59 PM

Where do you guys get the over powder and over shot cards? I am still looking for #5 or 6 shot and can only find 7 1/2 or 8s.

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Post by: Capt. Jas. on August 22, 2008, 06:54:10 AM

Try Track of the Wolf for your components. They should have them all.

Your best be for the shot might be local hunting shops that carry reloading supplies. In Virginia, we have a large private owned hunting and fishing store near Richmond called Greentop. They have carried larger hunting shot by the bag in the past.
Track might also carry smaller poundages of shot in your size but it will be more expensive than buying by the 25 pound bag.

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Post by: Minnesota Mike on August 22, 2008, 10:22:22 AM

Concur with Track for cards. Carry also at other places, but Track is cheapest.

Capt - sounds like you're in the Richmond area. If that's true you need to swing out at come by the range on a shoot day - we're close by just off of 460.

http://www.jamesriverblackpowderclub.org/ (http://www.jamesriverblackpowderclub.org/)

We just had monthly shoot last Sat. Good turn out and great weather.

Plan is for next shoot to set up and shoot some clays over on the side range after the normal shoot. Bring your lunch and come burn some powder!

r/
MM

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Post by: Capt. Jas. on August 22, 2008, 08:12:28 PM

Mike,
I am in Appx.
I usually dont get down around to Greentop except when shooting sporting at Old Forge.

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Post by: Captchee on August 25, 2008, 10:05:10 AM

I use about the same set up .
 IE 2 over the powder cards .
 What I do is load the first one dry , the second one   I hold in my mouth  while loading the first card . This wets the second card .  
 What you will have to do is work a load  up to find what gives you the best pattern .
 A Wad / cushion is just that . It cushions the shot column on ignition .
 This is basically why   wet the second card , so as to give some cushion to the shot ..

As to cards . Now and then I buy a bag . But  what I do most of the time , is make my own . Harbor freight sells a  punch set . ToW also used to sell the correct sized punches.
 For my wads  in my 62 I use a spent C02 cylinder , just cut the big end off . Then file it to a sharp edge . Drill out the small end so as to accept a nail . That way you  can push the wads out .
 I cut my wads from horse hair carpet pad  then soak them in   melted toilet bowl  wrings .
  I do this also with RB through my smoothbore .
 Now over the powder cards , just the wad , right on the powder . Drop the ball in  and then place an over the shot card to hold it .
 I get better accuracy then with a patch  and it  doesn’t foul as bad

As to shot . If you don’t mind  screening it for size , stop by a local trap club and get your name on the list for when they do a reclaiming . Normally they will sell it to you cheep
 I then bring the  shot home and dump it through a screen  that will only alow #7 or smaller shot to fall through . A simple flower sifter works great for this
   The bigger shot I melt down  into ingots for RB

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Post by: Minnesota Mike on August 25, 2008, 11:19:35 AM

Quote from: "Capt. Jas."

Mike,
I am in Appx.
I usually dont get down around to Greentop except when shooting sporting at Old Forge.

That's only around 2-hours. About the same for my Dad and I from Virginia Beach.

You definately need to swing out for the Bob Lee State Championship Oct 10-12 if nothing else.

r/
MM

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Post by: Capt. Jas. on August 25, 2008, 03:02:58 PM

Used to come down for the Bob Lee State with Jim Hash when I was a teenager.

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Post by: Kermit on September 02, 2008, 08:12:48 PM

I'm blessed with a great gunshop close by, and they have whatever shot I need. If you have to mailorder, have you tried Midway?

As to wads/cards, I carry only the overshot cards. Two over the powder, one over the shot. Spit for lube, only the second and third cards. I poke a hole in each and every card, and make 'em about 1/3 off center. Chances of those two holes landing in the same spot over the powder are slim enough to not concern me. I do sorta pay attention to the orientation for card one and card two. The hole in the card over the shot is of no consequence.

I've never read anything to show me that my patterns are any way better or that more clays die if one uses all those other wads/cards or super new-millenium lubes. I've been loading shot this way for longer than I can remember. Who was that old feller I read decades back who tested loads and shot columns and determined that the One Card system was best?

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Post by: rickevans on September 10, 2009, 09:27:11 AM

Mario you said...

"I use a "turd".  

Simply a bore sized paper cartridge with my shot charge in it. When rammed down, a little pop spreads it enough that it stays put. Dip it in lube beforehand. It also helps keep your pattern tighter. "

What kind of paper? Will newsprint work?