Post by: oneshot72 on August 21, 2008, 11:11:25 PM
Mike
Post by: No Rod on August 22, 2008, 10:05:35 AM
Maybe there is something new as well?
Jon
Post by: hawkeye on August 22, 2008, 04:59:58 PM
http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpica ... p?dept=370 (http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/products.asp?dept=370)
I guess it really depends on how bad you want to hunt geese with a muzzleloader if the cost is worth it to you.
Post by: mark davidson on November 20, 2009, 09:38:31 AM
Post by: Kermit on November 20, 2009, 11:10:46 AM
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=370 (http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=370)
Spendy, but maybe easier/cheaper than cutting up shotshells. Go get you a goose for Christmas!
Post by: 62flint on December 03, 2009, 10:38:04 PM
http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html (http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html)
Post by: Kermit on December 04, 2009, 10:37:59 AM
Post by: Uncle Russ on December 04, 2009, 12:45:53 PM
Quote from: "62flint"
this is what I use
http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html (http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html)
62Flint, since it seems you most likely have some "hands-on" with this stuff, how about a performance report....nothing fancy, just a few experiences.
Do you use a shot cup?
What is the pellet count for 1.25 oz of #4's?...or #6'?
What bore is your gun, cyl? modern or old?
(I'm assuming it's a .62 or 20 ga.)
Shot charge vs Powder charge?
Whatever other little bits of info you might want to share.
There is absolutely no need for me to go into my own dismal failures in trying to get steel to pattern properly, and I also have to admit that I have very little experience using non-toxic, other than Kent's "Heavy-Shot" in a modern gun.
Like Fletcher has mention several times, in different threads, it's the cost that keeps me away from such experiments. Life can sometimes be a strugle for an old retired po-boy, dontcha know:?
Thanks for the information! This is the most reasonable price I have seen so far, and at this price I just might have to give it a try, depending a lot on your and Kermit's thoughts, since the two of you seem to be on top of this.
BTW; I would be loading this in a .69 and a .62 if I should jump into it....also, the Columbia Basin and Grant County in particuar, offers some of the best waterfowl shooting in the entire western part of the US.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: 62flint on December 04, 2009, 10:45:37 PM
Second I am not technical enough to give pellet counts etc.
I will be happy to tell you what I use and how it works for me.
I duck hunt in beaver ponds and flooded timber. Most of my shots are about 20 yards and few ever make 30 yards.
My load patterns nice to about 35 yards. I feel confident in killing at 30 yards be it duck or turkey.
I shoot a 20 guage fowler that is jugged choked. It is supposed to be choked improved modified.
I shoot 75 grains of 2ffg goex , 1 over powder card{1/8th inch} 1 1/2" cushion wad soaked with beeswax beef tallow or deer tallow lude, 1.25oz #4 bismuth. Sometimes I will up the powder to 80 grains. No real affect on pattern I can see but I can feel the differance in recoil. So I up it when I feel I need a little more power.
I shoot steel out of my modern guns and I feel bismuth actualy does a better job on the ducks. Just can't afford to feed my automatic with bismuth shot shells. So I up the shot size to get killing power.
I actually get very few cripples with my fowler and bismuth. I think most of the time I seem to get a pellet or two in the head neck area.
So there is my 2cents for what its worth.
Post by: Uncle Russ on December 05, 2009, 07:59:28 AM
Quote
I shoot 75 grains of 2ffg goex , 1 over powder card{1/8th inch} 1 1/2" cushion wad soaked with beeswax beef tallow or deer tallow lude, 1.25oz #4 bismuth. Sometimes I will up the powder to 80 grains. No real affect on pattern I can see but I can feel the differance in recoil. So I up it when I feel I need a little more power.
Same method I like, and prefer.
I'm sure you simply overlooked your over-shot card, but that's no big deal, we all understood...I especially liked the part where you said you could go from 75 to 80gr FFg with "no real affect on pattern".
The reason I asked about pellet count is because I somehow got a feeling there could be lot of tin used in this alloy in order to sell it at this price, and that of course would increase pellet count by weight and affect the overall length of the shot column, which in turn would respond, sometimes very radically, to changes in the powder charge.....ie, the longer the shot column, the more responsive the pattern is to powder changes. (Does that make sense? We may need Captchee to explain this a little better than I did.)
Thanks!
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Captchee on December 05, 2009, 08:06:03 AM
now what I do is buy a box of 12 gage bismuth shot gun shells . i same the shot and then sell the primed casings to a friend who reloads
hove you even made your own bismuth shot ?
i was wondering how it comes out . is it as easy as lead or is it a much higher temp ?
Post by: 62flint on December 05, 2009, 01:22:38 PM
I do not make the shot.
On the web site. They sell "easy pour pellets".
I do not think they can sell "shot" because of patent infringements. I think bismuth shot shell company holds the patent on bismuth shot.
So they sell their "easy Pour" shot pellets to use in the shot makers. The pellets just so happen to be the same size as 3,4,5,6 or 7.5 shot.
The easy pour pellets are listed a little further down the page bellow the ingots.
I purchased a 7 lb container of #4 easy pour pellets for about $66.00.
I think the reason I do not notice any real difference from 75 to 80 grains of powder. Is my gun is choked. I get a better pattern with 1.5 oz of shot but don't care for the recoil. Besides I feel like that is pushing the limits on a 20ga. Probably wouldn't hurt any thing. If I am getting good results with a lighter load no need in punishing my self. Lest thats the way I feel.
The reason I don't shoot past 30 yards with the load is pellet energy. Never tested it. Just kinda feel that that may be far enough with a 75 grain charge.
By the way I just got back in from duck hunting. Didn't get any thing but had about 10 mallards in my honey hole. It is raining here and I was really just scouting around and looking to jump shoot one or two.
Any one want to take a trip to Virginia we can share a sunrise over a beaver pond. Can't guarantee the ducks. Sometimes they don't like to play fair. They get a might unsociable latter in the season here near the Chesapeake bay.
Post by: Sean on December 06, 2009, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: "62flint"
this is what I use
http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html (http://www.huntersbismuth.com/home.html)
When was the last time you bought shot from them? I tried contacting them a while back and got no response. I'd heard the guy who ran it was having health problems and they had gone out of business. If they are back up and running, I'll certainly try again.
Thanks,
Sean
Post by: mark davidson on December 09, 2009, 11:12:54 AM
Post by: 62flint on December 09, 2009, 09:23:27 PM
It works well. But you need shot cups to protect the barrel from what I understand. I don't use shot cups. So I use bismuth. Works well for me in the limits I use it.
But yes I agree with you heavy shot works well.
A lot of people are spending a lot of money looking for that holy grail of shot material,That works as well as lead.
By the way just wondering. I really can't tell the difference between bismuth and lead holding it in my hands. How does a game warden? I have never been checked using bismuth. But always wondered if I did. What the game warden would say.
Post by: Captchee on December 09, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
as to heavy shot .
for those reading this who may not know .
be carful . its not recommended for original muzzleloaders .
infact im not sure it recommended for muzzleloaders at all .
Post by: Uncle Russ on December 09, 2009, 10:23:37 PM
Quote
I really can't tell the difference between bismuth and lead holding it in my hands. How does a game warden?
Here in Washington State.....If you are hunting with a muzzleloader and your gun is loaded when checked, he'll ask that you pull the OS Card and dump your shot, which he then checks with a Shot Magnet....Bismuth is diamagnetic (which means it repels), steel is magnetic (Meaning it attracts.) and Lead is neutral.
Same thing with a modern shotgun, he asks you to unload it on the ground, then he runs a "mag gauge" into the magazine to see if your plug is in, and then he uses the magnet on the shells...
He / she will most likely check ever shell, or every "load" on you.
A violation here in Washington means the automatic loss of your gun, and quite often your truck or boat along with it.
Our Game Department is comprised of an absolutely great bunch of guys and gals, they will actually go a long, long way out of their way in order to help you and, on top of that, they are some of the most pleasant people you will ever meet.
That is as long as you don't violate the rules. When that happens they have unbelievable enforcement powers!
Perhaps all this is as it should be, I am not one to say. But I will say I try hard to follow the rules and I'm none the worse off for it..
Uncle Russ...
Post by: mark davidson on December 10, 2009, 09:31:33 AM
As for barrel damage lots of folks think barrel damage with steel or any of the new lead substitutes is mostly unfounded ole-wives tails. Admittedly I use shot cups so the shot really does not touch the barrel anyway in my guns. I just have always heard about barrel damage but have never ever had a single person substantiate it or show me a barrel that had been damaged. Some of you may know of such things.
As for game wardens, if you have some good ones then you are very fortunate. Ours are underpaid egotists on a mission to ruin somebody's day. They are not there to help, they are there to find something to give you a ticket for. Waterfowl checks are the worst ones. The sacred duck will get you a ticket faster than anything else so you better make sure you do NOT have any lead shot. Most of our guys are too lazy to actually check you in the field so lots of them just sit up in the truck and then try to give folks tickets for stuff they "think" they were doing out in the woods.