Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => General Interest => Topic started by: Kermit on August 28, 2008, 01:02:15 PM

Title: Small--VERY small--bore question
Post by: Kermit on August 28, 2008, 01:02:15 PM: I've been lurking around here for a while now, and need to ramp up my participation. I'm sure liking what I'm reading here.

I've got a new gun coming in about a month or so, and need to start accumulating some advice. I've been smitten with smallbores and shoot the heck out of a .32 I have and love it.

Mark Wheland is building this one for me around a Rayl .25cal (!) A-weight 44" barrel. I've got a couple of boxes of #4 buckshot (.240) on hand for ball. Anyone have useful advice on loading this thing? Is FFFG good in this peashooter, or should it be even finer? In your experience, what's the cleanest powder in smallbores? How about patching material? Should I just head for the fabric store with my micrometer? Got a favorite lube for wee bores? I mostly just use spit in my .32.

I'm excited to start plinkin' with this one, and then see what it will do with .22rimfire sized game.
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Post by: Bigsmoke on August 28, 2008, 01:27:42 PM: Kermit,
Welcome aboard.
Been shooting m/l for a mighty long time, but have never, ever tried anything in that range. Usually prefer something about 3 times bigger, myself.
I would think that Fffg would be about the coarsest powder to use, and in something that small, I would even consider experimenting with Ffffg. I would tend to stay away from heavy lubes and use mainly liquid ones for your shooting.
As far as the thickness of your patches, a lot of that depends on the depth of your rifling.
And I think I would definitely use a brass rod for loading and cleaning.
Keep us up to date with your progress.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on August 28, 2008, 07:12:12 PM: Hi Kermit....
Welcome to the forum!

I have never shot anything as small as what you're looking at, and I think BigSmoke gave some powerful advise on the use of a Lubes and a Brass Rod in that little puppy.

I shoot a .32 and I went through about a six, or maybe even seven regular wooden rods, before I got smart enough to get me a brass rod. The rod that is on it, complete with "polished" patch fitting, is only fer looks...

I've never used ffffg for anything but priming, but if I were in your situation I just might be tempted to experiment just bit.
I find 15gr 3Fg to be a nice little plinking load in the .32, and I've never used more than 30gr.....in fact, if it were me, and this just me mumbling to meself, I would be very tempted to try about 8 or or 10 grain 3Fg just for grins & giggles....if it's real dirty, then I would try a "smidgen" of 4Fg

Hopefully, someone will come along shortly and enlighten all of us on a proper load for that little puppy.

Just my thinking out loud.

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: Kermit on August 28, 2008, 08:19:24 PM: Thanks! It IS going to arrive with its own range rod from the gitgo. Part of the package.

I know some of you folks have shot more brands of powder than I can even name, and I'm wondering what the opinions are about which ones gunk up smallbores badly or worse than others. Or which have been found to burn noticably cleaner. I just KNOW there are opinions!
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Post by: vermontfreedom on August 28, 2008, 08:48:55 PM: I agree with BigSmoke and Russ on the powder: nothing wrong with FFFg or even FFFFg in that little .25-shooter.

Definitely need to use a thin (0.010 or less) patch and liquid lubes like Lehigh or Competition (both available from Track) or just plain ol' spit. Anything gooey (Ox-Yoke, Bore Butter) will gum up, but you might get away with Mink Oil or some of these home-made recipes you'll find here.

In addition to the on-board ramrod you'll be using, for a more convenient range rod, you might seriously consider a one-piece rod built for these new .17- and .20-caliber centerfire rifles that are getting popular. You'll almost certainly have to buy a few adapters to get the ML jags (8/32 or 10/32) to fit because the Dewey's usually use female as opposed to male jags, but I think it would be well worth it.

And you'll have to improvise proper jags or have them specially made by a die-maker or machinist. I recommend getting a ball puller made before you start shooting. If you dry-ball or otherwise get one stuck, you might never get it out if a CO2 discharger doesn't work!

I have a 1-piece teflon-coated dewey rod to clean my high-power centerfire bolt action guns and will never, ever, ever go back to a multi-piece or aluminum rod for anything other than lever guns (where a 1-piece just doesn't work).

So, besides paper, what DO you shoot with a .25-cal ML? Squirrels and ... mosquitos?

And where's Whidby's Isle?
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Post by: sse on August 29, 2008, 03:57:59 PM: Welcome Kermit...

Quote
And where's Whidby's Isle?
That is what I was wondering...
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Post by: Kermit on August 29, 2008, 04:25:56 PM: I like to use "Whidby's Isle," since that was the name given this rock in the 18th century by Capt. George Vancouver, in honor of Lt. Joseph Whidby. It is now found on maps of Puget Sound as "Whidbey Island." Not nearly so romantic, methinks. Actually a pretty big island, loooong and narrow.

As to squirrels, the only big 'uns I see are urban escapees, imported from parts east. Probably frowned on to shoot 'em in city parks in Seattle. The local varieties are like big mice. But we do have some right big clams and crab, and the salmon are pretty wiley.

It's legal hereabouts to hunt grouse with a rifle. On the east side of the Cascades they'll flush into a nearby pine and wait for you to pick 'em off out of the branches. Probably legal to hunt turkey with a rifle too, but I might feel undergunned with a .25. And there's always bunnies. We'll see how well this thing drives tacks though.
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Post by: nessy357 on August 29, 2008, 05:03:35 PM: Kermit , my grandkids shoot a .32, using a .315 ball and .015" patch, 15grs of FFFg , works great for about 6 shots then the accuracy goes out the window.
Our plan is to swab the bore about every 5 shots and try that.
we use a "range rod " also, works real good for the little guys and cleaning also.
Do you have a source for round balls, I picked mine up from a trader in Wash. Couldn't find any in BC
Cheers Bob.
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Post by: vermontfreedom on August 30, 2008, 07:52:53 PM: you might want to check http://www.periodramrod.com/ (http://www.periodramrod.com/) to see what they can do for you as far as a ramrod

metal core wood exterior

i have one on order for my .32
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Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on August 30, 2008, 09:29:15 PM: Sounds like a great little gun. The smallest cal. I have is .45 .You might want to consider using Dutch Shoultz;s "dry-patch system"? It has wotked fine in my guns.
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Post by: Roaddog on August 31, 2008, 08:48:11 AM: Kermit glad to see you made it over here. There are some grate folks around here and full of good infermation toboot. That sounds like quite a little gun. I shoot the heck out of my 32's but don't know squot abought a 25. So keep us filled in on how it goos when ya get her.
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Post by: Kermit on August 31, 2008, 01:03:12 PM: You'll be among the first to know!
Title: small bore
Post by: ken on August 31, 2008, 08:54:41 PM: Kermit I used to shoot a 29 cal. Bill Large Barrel. I used 3f all the time with no problems. It was a dream to shoot and death on squirrels. Wish I had kept it.
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Post by: Minnesota Mike on September 01, 2008, 11:10:49 AM: that's almost small enough to fall into what was called 'parlor guns' - small caliber weapons that were shot in doors for fun - maybe some research along those lines might help.

Couple of tidbits for you:

Deb took these photos of this 22cal black powder "parlor rifle" (early indoor shooting range firearm early 1800's). The end of the barrel is only 5 1/4 ...
http://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/fb ... iewType=tm (http://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/fb.asp?go=prev&m=77503&viewType=tm)

http://www.pbase.com/halp/wurfflein_zimmerstutzen (http://www.pbase.com/halp/wurfflein_zimmerstutzen)

r/
MM
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Post by: Kermit on September 01, 2008, 01:55:00 PM: "Zimmerstutzens." Literally something like "room guns." I understood from my fun times with German shooting clubs--all airguns in my experience--that these old guns were mostly .177 cal and used no powder. The wee lead ball was propelled by a primer only. They died out after WWII because of the gun controls WE imposed on them forbidding the private ownership of firearms!

They still live, however:

http://schutzen.sdpcrs.com/Zimmerstutzens.htm (http://schutzen.sdpcrs.com/Zimmerstutzens.htm)

PS--My wife has enough trouble with my airguns in the garage. I don't think she'll let me shoot this little flinter in the living room!
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Post by: oomcurt on September 01, 2008, 03:09:10 PM: Not meaning to confuse folks...considering the original poster was not really talking about parlor guns.....but....seems to me parlor guns, especially pistols were quite popular at one time...and least from what I have been told by folks in the past. I had one, well...maybe two of them at one time. One was a small rifle probably was designed for a bb or cb .22 cartridge. The other was a single shot pistol, would fire any tye .22 cartridge though. The reason I "think" it may have been a parlor gun was its shape or design. Just my two cents....
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Post by: Fletcher on September 05, 2008, 06:31:42 PM: See my comments on cleanin' the .32 I cannot imagine how hard a .25 would be. I would think the breech would get plugged up good in no time. Ya need some room to move aq jag around down there!!!
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Post by: Three Hawks on September 06, 2008, 02:02:43 AM: Some years back Numrich had a bunch of .30 muzzleloading barrels for sale cheap. Being a dumbass, I only bought one. It took me several years to find a suitable breech plug, get it breeched and fittings put on it. It is a drop in for my .50 T-C Hawken and works like an itty bitty charm. I searched for six years before I found a .285 Lyman RB mold. Those little pills load very easily and shoot well enough to hit a soda cracker or NECCO wafer about three times in five at 25 to 50 yards. As I use it as one would use a modern .22 that's plenty close enough for me. The nicest part is the very light report and even lighter recoil. It is, however, far too heavy for a small kid to shoot. I cut the barrel to 24" to make the rifle balance the same place it does with the 28" .50 barrel and it's still about 3 1/2 oz heavier than the .50. It's easy to load and as easy to clean as any other m-l rifle.

Three Hawks