Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: Captchee on September 14, 2008, 06:23:35 PM

Title: latest peice "type D trade gun "
Post by: Captchee on September 14, 2008, 06:23:35 PM: Well some time back I showed a stock of a type D trade gun that I was working on .
The stock was an old plank and one of the hardest I have seen .

Well today was the day for my customer to pick it up . So we spent the day sighting it in for him and then just throwing lead .

What a great after noon .

Right from the get go she held a 2 inch group at 25 yards . Even at 50 she was clover leafing from the bench so we did some off hand shooting .
If anyone has or had any doubt about how well a smooth bore can group, this should dispel it . Even at 75 yards the group was still under 6 inches . while fred has alot of exsperiance with muzzleloaders , this was his first flinlock . i would have to say he did very well

as promised , some photos of the finished peice

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/gun%20stock%20artical/storm001.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/gun%20stock%20artical/storm005.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/gun%20stock%20artical/storm006.jpg)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/gun%20stock%20artical/storm002.jpg)

a shot of the wrist

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/gun%20stock%20artical/storm014.jpg)

the new owner

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/gun%20stock%20artical/storm011.jpg)

first 3 shots at 25 yards

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/gun%20stock%20artical/storm015.jpg)

target shot off hand at 50 and 75 yards . 18 shots
top 10 are at 50 yards . lower center as well as bottom flier is at 75

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/gun%20stock%20artical/storm016-1.jpg)

MAN!!! you just gotta love a smooth bore
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Post by: Captchee on September 14, 2008, 06:39:19 PM: OHHHH Allan , i have you main springs . ill bring them to yellow jacket
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Post by: Chairslayer on September 14, 2008, 07:17:40 PM: WOWWWWWW! Beautiful
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Post by: Buffler Razz on September 14, 2008, 07:40:17 PM: Beautiflu work! And a shooter to boot, very nice.

Can you give us more details on the gun..cal, lock, length of barrel etc. Now that I got the building bug I want to plan my next gun and since I don't have one I need a fowler.
Razz
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Post by: jbullard1 on September 14, 2008, 07:42:53 PM: Mr Starks
That is one fine piece of shootin iron you built
and some real good shootin
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Post by: Two Steps on September 14, 2008, 07:44:53 PM: Wow Capt...that's NICE! One of these days you're gonna have to make me a beauty like that
Al
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Post by: Captchee on September 14, 2008, 07:57:28 PM: thanks for the kind words fellas . it did come out rather well , all things considered

.well the piece has a sorted story
The stock was bought for a song . 35 bucks . I believe it to be a piece of burl maple .
The original owner has started building it and had tried to do the barrel inlet , as well as RR channel but mucked it up . I think this was why it was never finished
as such i had to completely bed the barrel as it was impossable to re inlet it correctly .

The stock didn’t really show this figure tell after I started shaping . When it did , I called and suggested maybe that it would be better placed on a rifle .
But the owner said no and to keep going .

The barrel is O to R , in 62 cal and 44 inches
The barrel , stock and trigger was were al purchased for less then 100.00 from local trader who had them for sale in his trade tent
The lock is actually a Jaeger made by Davis
The powder charge that produced these groups was
70 grains of 2F
A felt wad
A .600 round ball
1 over the shot card to hold it in place .
At no time today was a patched round ball used

We also shot a pattern of #6 shot at 25 yards . It grouped very well . But I dint get a photo of that
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Post by: tg on September 14, 2008, 08:06:48 PM: Nice looking gun, the details of the parts would be interesting, I am guessing it is a colonial made composit gun of sorts from the sepentine side plate ( Maple? stock, or is that a nice piece of cherry) possibly a Jaegar lock? this type of gun is very under represented, there were lots of files, breeching tools and gun parts sent to New France in the 18th century so someone was building Frenchy guns or repairing them for NDN's or French colonists, How many D parts did you use on the gun, tg and buttplate? the finish looks real sharp what method /material did you use, all and all I suspect yuou have one happy customer wih that one, nice job....

Guess I missed the above post that answered my questions once again nice looking gun ,Cap
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Post by: Captchee on September 14, 2008, 08:13:35 PM: I forgot , the stock on this is stained with Tandy leather dye
Pro Dye #22055-06 Cordovan
Then had 4 coats of toung oil to finish
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Post by: Captchee on September 14, 2008, 08:26:26 PM: well the Trigger guard TG is a casting i did from a Tulle guard available through ToW
the butt plate is a Tow plate that they sell for a Type D fusil .
the entry thimble i also made .
side plate is a casting i also did from an old early style serpent side plate .

the story on the build of this , was that the customer wanted a smooth bore trade gun. he came up with the stock and barrel , then brought it to me .
but IMO the blank was probable cut with the intent of making something along the lines of a Lancaster but inlet for a smooth bore O to R barrel .

after some discussion , I advised that I could possible do something along the lines of an Board of ordnance piece or with some work get a reasonable resemblance of a type D

One of the things that cant be seen in the photos is the muzzle of the barrel is flared.
Whom ever made the barrel never cut the tooling flair off .. The customer decided that he liked the look so I left it
Yes the lock is a Jeager lock
Myself I cheated a little and the lines follow a type G more in the wrist then a D .
But basically IMO if a person was to build a BoO gun , this would be very close with its mix of parts and its shape, though thats just my humble oppenion and has no real base past that
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Post by: Captchee on September 14, 2008, 09:10:54 PM: sorry i missed the part in the finish TG .
the finish is toung oil . i used leather dye for stain on this peice.

the stock was taken down with files and scrapers and then Boned .
the Tg and side plate are srface mounted , not inlet .
the wrist is not round but brough dow to ovel , with the sides being the widest part if the wrist .
i would have like to been able to bring the tang screw up from the TG but it wasnt possable .

normaly i would have also finished the lock serface . however the customer requested that it be left in the beaded factory finish so thats how i left it
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Post by: Pitchy on September 14, 2008, 10:04:03 PM: Very nice indeed. :)
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Post by: Spotted Bull on September 14, 2008, 10:12:59 PM: In a word....AWESOME.....or WOW.....

Very nice indeed
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on September 14, 2008, 10:19:45 PM: Looking good Charlie!
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Post by: riverrat on September 14, 2008, 10:22:55 PM: A beautiful one of a kind fowler. The owner looks mighty serious about his new gun.
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Post by: Captchee on September 14, 2008, 10:24:17 PM: Quote from: "riverrat"
A beautiful one of a kind fowler. The owner look s mighty serious about his new gun.

he doesnt like his picture taken . took me a while to con him into that lol
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Post by: SquirrelHeart on September 15, 2008, 08:11:59 AM: Very nicely done! There should be a very proud owner and a very proud builder!! Looks like it will be a marvelous all around hunting gun, deer, turkey, squirrel and all the other varmints in between.
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Post by: Roaddog on September 15, 2008, 04:15:47 PM: That is a real masterpice, shoots very good and looks like a dream. Job well dun Captchee.
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Post by: Spotted Bull on September 15, 2008, 05:44:25 PM: looks museum quality to me......glad its a shooter though
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Post by: melsdad on September 15, 2008, 06:54:35 PM: A very fine looking gun!! I would be proud to own it for sure.
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Post by: Captchee on September 15, 2008, 07:10:14 PM: tanks again fellas for the kind words . i

steve , i added the improvments that you sugested . they sure do improve the lines i think
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Post by: Ridge on September 15, 2008, 07:18:08 PM: That's one handsome fowler.
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Post by: Uncle Russ on September 15, 2008, 08:44:54 PM: Nice job Capt!

(Is that "false ears" in the picture? It's been a long time since I met a few of those fellas and it seems I forget more faces than I remember lately.)

Uncle Russ...
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Post by: Captchee on September 15, 2008, 08:46:25 PM: no Russ , that would be Daisy toethumb AKA Fred Wiesner
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Post by: Capt. Jas. on September 17, 2008, 09:23:03 AM: Captchee,
Very nice work!
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Post by: Christiaan on September 17, 2008, 02:20:49 PM: A looker and a shooter for sure. Congratulations Capt., that gun will be appreciated and adored long after we are gone. Its more than a beautiful rifle. Its a heirloom for future generations.
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Post by: sse on September 17, 2008, 02:37:37 PM: The figure and finish of that lumber is sure eye candy...very nice.
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Post by: trent/OH on September 17, 2008, 08:55:34 PM: Being kind of ignorant on this topic, what are the differences between this style and types A, B, and C trade guns?
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Post by: Captchee on September 17, 2008, 09:35:25 PM: well basically the C is more ornate then the D . C being earlier then the D .
The G has alittle different wrist , very distinctive , almost like an egg laid on its side and some examples show a dramatically tapered stock to the muzzle .
Now the other thing is that there are some that disagree with the whole C, D , G designation
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Post by: tg on September 18, 2008, 07:28:53 PM: I think the big arguement comes when assigning a C or D or G type to a gun when they are actually classifications of furniture from different time periods, and not a particular style of gun, you could take the same stock and put either cCor D furniture on it and aside from the hardware the guns would look much similar.
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Post by: Captchee on September 18, 2008, 08:26:46 PM: Quote from: "tg"
I think the big arguement comes when assigning a C or D or G type to a gun when they are actually classifications of furniture from different time periods, and not a particular style of gun, you could take the same stock and put either cCor D furniture on it and aside from the hardware the guns would look much similar.

yep pretty much . as i said though the G has a diffrent wrist and i have seen some originals with very much smaller forstocks at the muzzle .
but i would agree with the C&D . very much the same just diffrences in hardwear
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Post by: chuckpa on September 19, 2008, 10:08:19 PM: Captchee
That is one beautiful gun and you can be very proud of your work.
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Post by: pathfinder on September 22, 2008, 08:09:00 AM: Beautiful piece of work! I like the fact it was built on the "feel" of the piece rather than stricly sticking to all the small details of a particular type. Once again beautiful gun. Both of you have the right to be VERY proud!