Post by: cdnrokon on September 27, 2008, 11:05:45 PM
2f 15 thou patch and Hornady hard cast ball gives me a 3inch group at 80ydsanyone else shoot this load or close to this load ?
Post by: rollingb on September 28, 2008, 02:08:11 AM
Rather then skimp on powder, I use what shoots the most accurate in my rifleguns.
Post by: Spotted Bull on September 28, 2008, 05:43:36 AM
Post by: Chairslayer on September 28, 2008, 07:32:11 AM
Post by: Pitchy on September 28, 2008, 09:21:46 AM
Edited to correct powder type from FF to FFF
Post by: sse on September 28, 2008, 09:48:10 AM
Post by: Bigsmoke on September 28, 2008, 11:00:07 AM
The last two .54's I had both liked 85 grains Ffg, one was a Green River barrel the other was a Green Mountain. As I recall from a long time ago, my other .54 which had a Douglas Premium also liked 80 or 85 grains.
You mentioned something about Hornady Hard Cast ball? Is that something new? I thought they were all swaged out of soft lead. A few years back, they tried selling an antimony flavored ball for use with a polypatch. It was only available in .50 cal and was .485 diameter.
What size ball are you using in your Browning? Sometimes going from .530 to .535 can make some dramatic results in accuracy as well.
Post by: vermontfreedom on September 28, 2008, 11:13:43 AM
I started with 90 grains FFg Swiss (about 1825 fps with 230-grain 0.535).
Dropped to 80 grains FFg Swiss (about 1750-1775 fps) just to conserve powder - groups actually improved a little bit.
That's my hunting load and my practice load.
Occasionally I'll tinker with other loads at the range just for something else to do.
Does well with 80 grains FFg Goex/Schuetzen/KIK (all about 1550-1650 fps with Schuetzen on the low end and KIK on the high end).
Post by: sse on September 28, 2008, 01:03:57 PM
Post by: rollingb on September 28, 2008, 09:12:54 PM
Quote from: "sse"
Vermont, who made that barrel? I'm pretty sure The Swan has 1:66 with the Green Mountain barrel. I was thinking that Swiss would be too hot closer to 100 gr of Ffg. My .54 does good with 95 gr GOEX Ffg...
Jimmy,... the Swan has a 1:70 Green Mountain barrel. :)
Post by: sse on September 29, 2008, 09:59:58 AM
Post by: Pitchy on September 29, 2008, 12:10:22 PM
Post by: vermontfreedom on September 29, 2008, 09:51:24 PM
Quote from: "sse"
Vermont, who made that barrel?
Rice.
I asked specifically for a slightly slower twist than standard because I hope someday to use the .54 on elk or moose, so I knew I'd want to load hot/fast, for which the slower twist should be better.
It's worked great for me.
Post by: Captchee on September 30, 2008, 09:09:04 AM
as to the differences in 2F and 3F .
2F is a slower burn because its bigger in grain .
Now keep in mind this all happens in milla seconds . But basically what happens is it takes longer for the 2F grain “ when compared to 3F” to completely combust . This allow the projectile to be moved down the bore some before the entire charge is ignited . Thus you barrel pressures are lower then would be found with a comparable load of 3F..
But if your using 3F , simply reducing the charge by 10 to 15 grains “depending on powder maker “ will normally bring 3F down to comparable pressures of 2F . Notice I didn’t say exsact , just comparable .
However what will not change is the area where the pressure spike takes place . 3F being a faster burn , it produces a steeper spike then 2F and thus spikes sooner in the barrel
Again remember this is milliseconds , but it does play an effect on the end result .
Now one of the differences in powder manufactures is the charcoal they use. Different charcoals produce different burn rates . Which again results in different barrel pressures . thus giving different muzzle velocities for like loads . Swiss is hotter the Goex and as such the charge can be reduced when comparing the two , so as to bring the Swiss into the Pressure range that you get when using Goex . Thus lb for Lb. you can actually use less Swiss to get the same results as a lb of Goex .
Again myself I have found this reduction to be in the 10 to 15 grain range .
See its really a game of pressures . At what pressure range does my rifle throw the best and most consistent pattern
Now SSE ask if there is a lighter load in which accuracy will improve again . Well in theory the answer would be yes. That yes " in theory" is true for both a lower and a higher charge .
See pressure in a barrel creates what’s called harmonics. IE barrel harmonics .
As a charge goes off , the barrel for lack of a better description , vibrates . This vibration is like sound waves . The trick is to find the pressure that produces a wave that comes to the end of the barrel and ends at the same point on the wave as with a heavier or lighter charge ..
Now your point of aim will change but the barrels ability to throw the ball to the same tight area in theory should stay relatively the same .
Now again this can change from barrel to barrel because there are so many variables in play . like what the barrel is made from . the effects of diffrent types of rifling as well as barrel thickness .
But basically I find the this wave is very close to being divisible or multiplied by 2 for a starting point for finding that harmonics .
So say for a barrel that likes 90 grains . One could very well find that a lower charge in the 45 grain area will bring back you accuracy .
The opposite also holds true . in theory if your group starts opening back up when you go above 90 grains , that group would then come back into harmonics at a higher charge .
Now im not saying or recommending folks go out and load 180 grains of powder to test this .
NO that’s not the case at all .
Again what your looking at is pressures . BP doesn’t produce a set given pressure that’s multipliable .
IE 20 grains of 3F does NOT produce 2X the pressure as 10 grains .
BUT if one takes the time to figure out barrel pressures you can then start to learn barrel harmonics and how they relate to those pressures and then calculate the harmonic waves that will hold accuracy .
Did I totally confuse you all LOL
Post by: cdnrokon on September 30, 2008, 09:22:33 PM
Quote from: "bigsmoke"
Didn't the Browning use a 1-70 or 1-72 rate of twist? Might explain its like of a heavy charge.
The last two .54's I had both liked 85 grains Ffg, one was a Green River barrel the other was a Green Mountain. As I recall from a long time ago, my other .54 which had a Douglas Premium also liked 80 or 85 grains.
You mentioned something about Hornady Hard Cast ball? Is that something new? I thought they were all swaged out of soft lead. A few years back, they tried selling an antimony flavored ball for use with a polypatch. It was only available in .50 cal and was .485 diameter.
What size ball are you using in your Browning? Sometimes going from .530 to .535 can make some dramatic results in accuracy as well.