Post by: melsdad on December 16, 2008, 12:14:28 PM
Thanks
Post by: Captchee on December 16, 2008, 12:31:43 PM
but there is really more to it then that .
some comapanies extrude the metal . others do not ??/ the other name also used today exscapes me right now . its 10 deg here and no heat in my shop . my brain is about frozen . maybe one of the others fellas can refresh my memory alittle
but basicly its not the metal as much as the way the stresses are relieved within the metal . did i say it was cold here
Post by: melsdad on December 16, 2008, 04:28:38 PM
Do you happen know what the hardness of an average barrel is on the Rockwell C scale?
Post by: FG1 on December 16, 2008, 04:46:08 PM
Post by: Captchee on December 16, 2008, 05:13:24 PM
CVA barrels will eat your gravers up . Literally you will spend a lot of time sharpening . In fact just about every inch you will need to touch up the angles .
This is what I find so odd about all the roomers about those barrels being soft . Even cobalt tips just disappear. They last just as long as M42 or high speed steal in what ever Jukar is using and cost 3 X as much .
GM barrels cut very nicely and the ones from rice and Getz gut even nicer .
I find that plain old cold roll is the best to start on if your going to work on barrels .
Yes its a lot softer but you will learn to keep you angles while at the same time be able to feel when the your point is getting dull .
The thing that I have learned is that the harder the steel is , you need to change the geometry of the point , kinda like a wood chisel . Just as each wood is different so is each metal.
With soft woods you want a shallower heal . This keeps the chisel from diving on you . But when you go to harder woods a steep heal will help hold the chisel in the material and keep it from jumping out
Same with gravers . When the metal is hard , a shallow heal must be watched or it will want to jump out and you will get over runs .
Go to Steve Lindsey web sight . Read all you can . While he mostly about Pneumatic hammer gravers , it’s the same process as chase graving or push graving .
There is a wealth of knowledge there with folks from Remington , colt all the big names . These guys are the very people who in this country do work that demand 10 to 100’s of thousands of dollars just for their engraving or charge thousands just for a 1 to 2 day class
BUT I have found All of them are willing to help you out with questions . Pointers , information no mater which of the 3 different tools you chose to use ..
These folks know the full scoop . don’t be afraid to ask the most basic of question .
Steves forum , is very much like ours here . There is less traffic but they will answer you
http://www.engravingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
Post by: melsdad on December 16, 2008, 05:23:45 PM
Post by: Captchee on December 16, 2008, 05:45:26 PM
what type of tools are you going to use ?
if you interested , i have a copy of the one of jack brooks early engraving CD s , youe welcome to it if you like .
it covers making your own hammer graver and how to start you practice plates
Post by: melsdad on December 16, 2008, 06:48:11 PM
Post by: Captchee on December 16, 2008, 06:51:41 PM
Post by: melsdad on December 16, 2008, 06:56:10 PM
Post by: Gambia on December 17, 2008, 09:42:31 AM
Now about engravin' rifle
Post by: Captchee on December 17, 2008, 11:10:49 AM
. I have the CD packaged and the wife is going to drop it off at the PO on her way to town .
In the main time some things that might help you .
1) just as with rifle building , you will need some knowledge to help you . This can come from finding a local engraver who is willing to help you along OR from books . The first is more desirable but sometimes just not an option for many of us .
A couple books I would consider would be a basic one that very old called
ENGRAVING METALS : By Paul N . Has luck . it’s a small paper back 159 pages . But in it he goes over the basics , different tools , vices and tables as well a lighting .
Also another would be
THE ART OF ENGRAVING :J.B.Meeks . it’s a hard back and only about 200 pages but . Very good when it comes to layouts , drawing , different styles . A VERY good book to start out with IMO .
There are others out there, as well as other DVD’s
But this book will give you most all the basics you need .
2) is design transfer .
Your going to find that you will spend more time drawing then actually engraving . Get you a simple collage rule ringed notebook. The lines will help you keep things in prospective size as well as help you break things like your scrolls up into sections ..
Carry it with you so when you have time you can doodle away .
Once you have something you like , then you have to be able to transfer it to the metal your using .
There are many different ways to transfer . Its kinda like working a load up for your rifle . You have to find one that works for you . Myself I use Dammar varnish as a transfer medium . If you take your time and don’t rush , it will transfer every little detail .
A search on Steve’s site will give many different options as well as how they work with different printers .
3) collect examples of engravings you like . Now im not saying copy them . But save the pictures to give you ideas . Coping someone else’s engravings is like copying a picture and then claiming it as you own .
Its frowned upon . BUT there is nothing that says you cant use those designs to make your own or even transfer them for practice plates. Just make sure if you put them on something that you sell , you give credit for the design to the person who originally did it .
4) engravers . There are literally 100 of designs for these out there . Each has their own place that they are used in . but to start out with , make yourself a square graver . If your doing the early American style engraving , a large % was done using this one tool .
They are simple to make . Either use a small ¼ or smaller triangle file or small square file . Ether will work . ..
Push engraving uses smaller length gravers that fit completely in the palm of your hamd . where chase engraving uses longer ones . With there handles you want something about as long as a comfortable wood chisel . You have to be able to hold it firmly and tap it with the hammer . Yet not so long that you cant see the cutting tip .
on that point , i would also recomend that you pick up one of those magnifiying visors . normaly they can be found for about 5 -10 bucks and come with 3 diffrent magnifications . these work real well for seeing the tip and keeping things in control
Here is a couple photo of a set up that Bill Brockway used it should give you some ideas to work on ot think about
Notice on his square graver that Brockway shows , he uses no heal on his graver .
This will cut very deep and quickly in soft metals . But if you just lightly touch the bottom two back sides just behind the point . It will help hold your depth better .
Again softer material , these should be longer . But harder materials like barrel steel , they need to be either very small or as shown , non excitant
Post by: melsdad on December 17, 2008, 12:08:05 PM
Post by: Captchee on December 17, 2008, 12:57:01 PM
here this link will better exsplain it then i can .
Steve's point is diffrent then the one you will make but the principles are the same
http://www.engravingschool.com/private/LindsayPoint-Intro.htm
Post by: melsdad on December 20, 2008, 11:18:39 AM
Thanks again
Post by: Captchee on December 20, 2008, 11:57:29 AM
good to hear it came through ok .
your more then welcome . as i said , when your done with it , just pass it on to someone else when the time comes
Post by: melsdad on December 20, 2008, 11:58:56 AM
Quote from: "Captchee"
when your done with it , just pass it on to someone else when the time comes
Will do
