Traditional Muzzleloading Association

Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: burch on April 05, 2009, 07:15:19 PM

Title: Newbie to flintlocks
Post by: burch on April 05, 2009, 07:15:19 PM: Well it`s lookin` like i`ve got myself a Flintlock on the way. This is my first Flinter. I have plenty of percussion rifles and pistols. I need to know how these flinters work. How to load, how to clean and how to PROPERLY take care of one. I`m getting a Hatfield .36cal and God willing it`ll be one that won`t give me a lot of trouble. Truth is I really enjoy tweaking and making the BP guns work right, that`s half the fun. So any tips and tricks will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all,
Burch
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on April 05, 2009, 08:27:00 PM: Powder, patch, ball......... half cock, prime, close frizzen, full cock, aim, squeeze! :rotf :rotf

Seriously, not much to them, just dont over prime the pan and create a mtn of powder that the sparks from the lock have to burn through to get to the flash hole, a well timed lock thats working properly really shouldnt need any prime in the pan! oh yea, follow through on the shot, learning to shoot a flinter well will only improve your shooting skills for ANY other gun.
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Post by: Bruce Bogart on April 05, 2009, 09:02:45 PM: I'm always surprised at how little priming it takes to set off the main charge. Just a little bitty tricklle in the bottom of the pan.
Bruce
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on April 06, 2009, 12:24:57 AM: Burch, some real interesting reading here on flintlock timing and such,
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured- ... /index.php (http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/index.php)
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Post by: Sir Michael on April 06, 2009, 12:29:45 AM: If you are interested in priming and how it affects the performance of flintlock check this out.

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/initial-pan-experiments-part-2.php

This information has been updated or reprinted I'm not sure in the latest edition of the Muzzle Blast. It really knocks the socks of intuition.
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Post by: Longhunter on April 06, 2009, 08:39:03 AM: 1: Keep your flint sharp and sparking well

2:Don't cover the vent, and keep it clear with your pick

3: Check your prime often and keep your powder dry
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Post by: Kermit on April 06, 2009, 12:01:57 PM: Have fun with it. With practice, it becomes a ritual--almost medatative. It's sort of like archery in that way for me.

Oh, and look out. There may be no going back. I don't own a percussion gun anymore. Some can mix the two, like with a percussion SxS maybe. Me, I'm holding out for a flint double.
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Post by: Minnesota Mike on April 06, 2009, 03:04:56 PM: The only difference I've noted with a rock gun vice cap is ignition - everything else is the same. A little more care is needed when getting ready to shoot, but other than that things work pretty much the same.

r/
MM
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Post by: jbullard1 on April 06, 2009, 03:24:17 PM: I just converted my LongShanks rifle to flint
Once I got my load procedure down pat: ie pick the vent before prime, and a good sharp Rich Pierce white Missouri flint TIGHT in the cock I can tell no difference from when it was a capper
My suggestions
very good flint
pick the vent
small dry prime powder

I have the luxury of living in a rural area, owing 15 acres with my house so no one gets bent out of shape if they see me in the yard with a gun
I have burned up 3 flints and about 1000 grs of ffffg prime just walking around my yard and dry firing my conversion, getting used to the pan flash. I also shoot a few full loads into my backstop just to check my accuracy
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Post by: Mitch on April 06, 2009, 03:29:15 PM: "I also shoot a few full loads"-Jerry, are these "full loads" in 2f or 4f?.......couldn't resist!!
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on April 06, 2009, 03:30:47 PM: Quote from: "Mitch"
"I also shoot a few full loads"-Jerry, are these "full loads" in 2f or 4f?.......couldn't resist!!

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on April 06, 2009, 03:32:28 PM: One thing about pan flash, you shouldnt see it if your shooting properly and concentrating on sight aligment , sight picture and follow through of the shot, you'll NEVER see the pan flash!
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Post by: Mitch on April 06, 2009, 03:35:39 PM: Quote from: "BEAVERMAN"
One thing about pan flash, you shouldnt see it if your shooting properly and concentrating on sight aligment , sight picture and follow through of the shot, you'll NEVER see the pan flash!

I always close my eyes as I pull the trigger, so I've never seen the pan flash either!! :lol: just kidding...at least I'm having a somewhat humorous Monday!
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Post by: jbullard1 on April 06, 2009, 03:58:00 PM: Quote from: "Mitch"
"I also shoot a few full loads"-Jerry, are these "full loads" in 2f or 4f?.......couldn't resist!!

:lol
Mitch, it's funny now the bruise on my bicep is about the size of an ugly green quarter. The 4f powder is locked in the gunsafe only to be used in the primer! I learned my lesson and actually got off light, I could have had serious injuries.

I now have a range set up just to shoot squibb loads with my new flinter 30 gr fffg and a prb at 4 different targets
Just trying to learn this flintlock thing
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Post by: Longhunter on April 06, 2009, 04:48:04 PM: Squeeeeeeze the trigger...don't pull. Let the shot surprise you.. :roll eyes
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Post by: No Deer on April 06, 2009, 04:51:26 PM: In addition to what the others said, you also asked about cleaning. It is really no different than cleaning your cappers. Just plug the touch hole with a toothpick and clean like you do your others.
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Post by: jbullard1 on April 06, 2009, 04:56:43 PM: Quote from: "Longhunter"
Squeeeeeeze the trigger...don't pull. Let the shot surprise you.. :roll eyes
That's the way I was taught to shoot the suppository guns
Thanks Ron
Title: Flint ignition
Post by: jtwodogs on April 06, 2009, 08:33:47 PM: Quote from: "Sir Michael"
If you are interested in priming and how it affects the performance of flintlock check this out.

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/initial-pan-experiments-part-2.php

This information has been updated or reprinted I'm not sure in the latest edition of the Muzzle Blast. It really knocks the socks of intuition.

Very informative Sir Michael
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Post by: Sir Michael on April 06, 2009, 11:24:58 PM: I'm not familiar with a Hatfield so when it comes to cleaning you may need to take bit more care.

The first thing you need to know is whether or not it has a patent breach or flat breach. Second, does it have a touch hole liner and not just a drilled touch hole. Third, if it has a liner is it the type that can be removed. Forth, is the barrel pined or does it have a "hooked" breach and wedges so it can be removed. (this also applies to cap guns but I digress)

If it has a patent breach and a touch hole liner that can be removed I'd strongly recommend that you remove it when you clean so you have good access to the Breach since the best you can do down the barrel is clean the false breach. If it has a patent breach and a drilled or non-removable liner then clean the best you can and remember that you have a cavity below the false breach that you have to also get clean, dry, and greased/oiled.

If the barrel comes off ie. has a hooked breach then take it off put it in a bucket of your cleaner of choice and have at it this will get the barrel and patent breach clean you just have to remember to get it dry.

If the barrel is pined and you have a removable touch hole liner you can get a threaded flush tube you can put in its place and use it to flush cleaner thought the barrel and breach with the barrel on the stock and you can dry and lube it through the hole the liner goes in. If it does not have a removable liner you may want to try a clamp device that fits over the barrel and covers the touch hole so you can flush it as I said before.

Having said all this probably the most important thing about cleaning a flinter is knowing how you gun is designed. But, that is true of all muzzleloaders.

Before I forget, one other thing. Remove the lock regularly to make sure there is no build up of dust, powder, lint, or what ever in the works and that everything is still tight and working properly. You don't have to take it apart just brush it off and apply a few well placed drops of oil and it should be ready to go. One last thing, It is easier to clean the foot of the frizzen if you take it off the lock just be careful of the spring and don't squeeze it tight or you could break it.

Care for it well and it will serve you well.
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Post by: mark davidson on April 07, 2009, 09:13:20 AM: I'm a "newbie" too in my second year with flinters. They are addictive, way more plain ole FUN to shoot. (IMO) Find a load it likes. It seems they all have a preference for a particular powder and ball and patch combo. Pick the vent hole and make sure it is always clear after you load and before you prime. Don't overdo the prime. For me the most critical thing has been to keep a good sharp flint in place. The absolute only misfires I have had were with wornout flints. I actually find flinters to be simpler to prime and unprime than cappers and I find the task much simpler with cold hands while hunting. As someone said above, there is no going back. :-)
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Post by: Minnesota Mike on April 07, 2009, 10:12:56 AM: and make sure if you're hunting in moist, damp and rainy weather to check or change your powder in the pan . . . or it dances the ol'fizzle dance while the critter thumbs its nose at you and runs down the trail . . .

r/
MM
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Post by: graybeard on April 07, 2009, 09:51:26 PM: I converted to flint a few years ago and found that the more you shoot, the more reliable the rifle becomes. Shoot a lot, as often as you can. Flintlocks grow on you. Left the Winchester in the cabinet last deer season and only used the flinter. graybeard
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Post by: James Kelly on April 10, 2009, 01:14:39 PM: One of the neat things about a flintlock is that people expect percussion guns to be more reliable.
Went to a match with a brand new never-tested Pedersoli "Dixie Cub" flint .40 cal. Gun went "bang" every time, about 14 shots.
I noticed that the capguns occasionally went "pop".
Heh heh
Not an impressive looking lock, but shoots. Used French amber flints from Horstguns.com strictly because they are pretty, & Swiss NullB prime because it is HOT.
I do have one flintlock that isn't worth a damn for flint life, and now three others that go BANG quite reliably. One Chambers/Siler lock, two Pedersoli. & I am not all that fussy about pricking the vent or cleaning spotlessly. I just shoot.
Stay with flintlocks. Enjoy the flash. Good for the ego. Puts the FIRE back in fire arms.
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Post by: Puffer on April 10, 2009, 01:46:28 PM: Quote from: "BEAVERMAN"
Powder, patch, ball......... half cock, prime, close frizzen, full cock, aim, squeeze! :rotf :rotf

Seriously, not much to them, just dont over prime the pan and create a mtn of powder that the sparks from the lock have to burn through to get to the flash hole, a well timed lock thats working properly really shouldnt need any prime in the pan! oh yea, follow through on the shot, learning to shoot a flinter well will only improve your shooting skills for ANY other gun.

AND THIS from "SOMEONE" who said "HE WOULD NEVER SHOOT A FLINTER" :rotf

Puffer
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on April 10, 2009, 02:17:12 PM: I NEVER SAID NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on April 10, 2009, 09:34:25 PM: As far as I'm concerned, the flinter is more fun to shoot. You've got enough advice, so just keep on enjoying the smoke and fire.
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Post by: Loyalist Dave on April 11, 2009, 10:00:35 AM: AND...., the bragging rights are vastly superior when you make a good shot or bag game, when talking to caplock shooters OR modern gun users (inlines are included in "modern" guns btw).

LD
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Post by: burch on April 15, 2009, 07:16:03 PM: RIFLES ARE HERE BOYS !!!!!!!! YEHAW !!!!!!!!!!

The Hatfield flinter is in really nice shape and the bore shines like a mirror. No rust anywhere. A couple tiny nicks on the stock. The only thing I found on it was the flask hole bushing is permenant unless someones has an idea for taking it out. I was thinking maybe an easy out but it`s really not that critical. I`d rate this rifle at 95% or better.

The Dixie rifle is in used shape and looks like someone has done some squirrel hunting with it but the bore is also mirror bright and no rust anywhere. It has a few nicks but all in all it`s in pretty good condition. The bolster will have to be replaced `cause the threads are damaged and not enough there to set it right with the nipple. It`s also been gussied up a bit and in my opinion a bit too much but i`ll take a guess and say it`ll shoot good.

With all that said i`m trully happy with the trade and can`t wait to hit the range with both of `em.

Here`s some pics and please no drooling on my post.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127 ... IM0603.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/HPIM0603.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127 ... IM0602.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/HPIM0602.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127 ... IM0597.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/HPIM0597.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127 ... IM0595.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/HPIM0595.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127 ... IM0589.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/HPIM0589.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127 ... IM0600.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/dpcburch/HPIM0600.jpg)
Title: k
Post by: ridjrunr on April 15, 2009, 07:27:39 PM: Looks like ya dun good !!
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Post by: burch on April 15, 2009, 08:07:06 PM: I`m a little confused. Is this a Dixie Tennesse Rifle or a Southern Mountain Rifle and what`s the difference ?
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Post by: MedicineSoldier on April 15, 2009, 09:44:02 PM: DGW called and sold the rifles and kits as the "Dixie Tennessee Mountain Rifle." Basically their version of what many consider as a southern mountain rifle. Terminology used for sales purposes sometimes gets a bit confusing if not misleading. Take two similar factory rifles from different distributors and one is called a Kentucky rifle and the other is called a Pennsylvania rifle. And neither of them may be truly close to either style.

Medicine Soldier
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Post by: burch on April 27, 2009, 07:55:30 PM: I finally got to shoot the Flinter. I was using .350 balls and after about a dozen shots I never had to swab the barrel. With that said accuarcy was poor in my opinion. We set up at 50yrds and with different charges and trying .010 & .15 patches I was lucky to get a 3" group. What are the different dia. for the .36 cal. With not having to swab the barrel i`m thinking the ball was maybe too small. Any opinions ?
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Post by: BEAVERMAN on April 27, 2009, 08:13:16 PM: i would think that the .15 patch with that diameter ball would have worked just fine, what are you using for lube?
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Post by: burch on April 27, 2009, 08:29:44 PM: Quote from: "BEAVERMAN"
i would think that the .15 patch with that diameter ball would have worked just fine, what are you using for lube?

Spit or Borebutter. Also, It went down the barrel pretty easy.
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Post by: Bigsmoke on April 27, 2009, 09:41:20 PM: Sounds to me like you are just shooting. Lots of fun, but it isn't telling you anything.
Bring it back to 25 yards, decide on a starting point for a powder charge, like 20 grains. Use your .350 ball and your .015 patch lubed with saliva.
Fire a three shot group from the bench.
Wipe the bore.
Post a fresh target and mark the first target with your load.
Increase your charge to 25 grains and repeat the process.
Increase to 30 grains and repeat the process.
Increase to 35 grains and repeat the process.
Increase to 40 grains and repeat the process.
Increase to 45 grains and repeat the process.
You should notice at some point that the group is getting smaller and smaller, then it starts to increase. You can try to adjust your measure by a grain or so or decrease but that is getting pretty picky.
Now that you have found your good charge, then you can start working on fine tuning the load. go to .018 ticking if you want. Or .020 patching. Try some different lubes.
If the .350 is a little loose, you might find some .355 or .360's somewhere. Try them.
There is more to it than the old 3 shot zero they taught us in the Army with the old M-14's. And that is all part of the fun.
I stress the 25 yard range instead of the 50, because that pretty much alleviates atmospheric problems, like wind.
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Post by: burch on April 28, 2009, 06:23:56 AM: Now that mension it, it was pretty windy that day. I also thought about double patching. I`ve only had it out once and like I said i`m new to the flintlock game. Working up the right load is all the fun. It took me about 3 months to get my .50 cal. shooting but it sure was fun gettin` it there. She`ll shoot tight all day long now.
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Post by: James Kelly on April 28, 2009, 07:24:54 PM: I personally haven't found borebutter at all slippery & don't think it is much of a "lubricant" Have come to like Old Swamp Hunter or Mink Oil (Track of Wolf), but I am far from a Lube Expert.
I'll save my lifetime supply of borebutter variations to squish over top of revolver balls.
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Post by: burch on April 28, 2009, 08:50:26 PM: Quote from: "James Kelly"
I personally haven't found borebutter at all slippery & don't think it is much of a "lubricant" Have come to like Old Swamp Hunter or Mink Oil (Track of Wolf), but I am far from a Lube Expert.
I'll save my lifetime supply of borebutter variations to squish over top of revolver balls.

I`m sure borebutter is no worst than a patch full of slobber and tooth goo. I can`t see that being very slick either
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Post by: Sir Michael on April 29, 2009, 11:44:53 AM: Its amazing just how slick Spit is.

I assume that when you were shooting the other day you had the gun on sand bags or some such and where on a solid bench? If not there was so much of YOU in each shot that the rifle capability was pretty much canceled out. You have good days and bad days the rifle just has days.
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Post by: mark davidson on April 29, 2009, 12:26:17 PM: I'm fairly new to this but not to shooting in general. There is no substitute for a good bench and sandbag rest to take the human factor out when you are working up a load and testing the accuracy potential for your rifle. I also suggest you swab the bore after every shot while developing a load. Dirty bores often do not shoot as well or even to the same point of impact as clean ones. If you hunt, you will most likely fire your first shot at game from a clean bore so it just makes sense to me to regulate my load and sights with a clean bore, at least clean as it can be with a spit patch followed by a dry one between shots. Opinions differ on range but to me 25 yards is too close. Most all guns, centerfire included, will rag out a hole at 25 yards but some of them shoot like crap on down range. 50 yards is a good place to get your sights set and see sort of what your gun will do. 100 yards is to me at least the final real acid test of the gun's capability off the bench. Everyone has his own criteria for what is acceptable. For me, I want my rifle to reliably put three balls in a decent group on a common index card(3"x5") at 100 yards off the bench. If a rifle will reliably do that off the bench, I KNOW that any missing I do is my own fault and not my rifle. I have no experience with smaller calibers so my experience may not help you. However, on a still day I suspect my process will work for you. FWIW a 3" group at 50 yards standing or offhand is darn fine shooting. However, 3" off the sandbag bench at 50 is pretty mediocre. Actually to me, 3" at 100 off the bench is pretty mediocre. JMO Hope this helps. :-)
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Post by: James Kelly on April 29, 2009, 12:28:35 PM: Agree w sand bags. Would say that last fall getting to know my .45 cal Pedersoli Frontier it seemed to have "days" or maybe "hours" of its own, relating, it seemed, to Michigan humidity late in the day. Mostly spit patch, from rest, shots stringing up and down at 50yds. (that part really was not me). Experience w that Other Lube caused me to make a new ramrod.
Recall that Cocoa Beach might not be all that arid?