Post by: 1Poet on May 24, 2014, 11:34:50 PM
Also, sometimes she goes off with no noticeable lag in firing, other times she has a hesitation befor firing, the ol' swish/bang thing. I use the powder prick before priming, but may be using too much or not enough priming powder. I'm using about 70 gr. Goex 3F in the charge and prime, best English black flint. Accuracy seems good, just hate the flash/bang from a weapon probably more capable than me. I want to learn and will listen and practice. Thanks to all who can provide this ol' newbie some help!
Post by: prairie dog on May 25, 2014, 10:33:44 AM
Post by: 45.70 on May 25, 2014, 11:22:51 AM
I don't have the experience a lot of the other guy's have, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. When I first started with flinter's a few years ago, I was putting to much powder in the pan and was using 3F Goex. Long story short I bought a powder primer that throws about 3grns of powder and started putting the powder in the outer half of the pan away from the touch hole. The primer helped, but about 6 months ago I tried using 4F in the pan and I immediately notice less delay and improved reliability. Yes, you can use 3F and it will work, but I have found I just have better luck with the 4F. I'm not sure about the tight spot in the barrel, my first guess would be a rough spot or maybe some lite pitting. I have a rifle that had a similar problem about 8 inch's down the barrel. I took a bore brush with a patch wrapped around it and applied alittle metal polish to the patch. Then I ran it down the barrel maybe 20 times and cleaned the barrel, I haven't had a problem since. Talk with some of the more experienced folks first before trying what I did. The flinter's are addicting, there is a little bit of a learning curve to get them shooting reliable, but it's fun learning.
Good luck,
Gary
Post by: Kermit on May 25, 2014, 11:34:37 AM
I agree about over-priming. I used to use those little push-valve thingies that drop about 3 grains. I now prime with more like 1 grain of 4f (not because 3f won't work, but because I still have more than 2lbs of 4f, good for a few thousand primes). Some folks give the primed piece a little tip, dropping the pan down to assure that the prime is not covering the vent, just before firing.
Try the flint both bevel up and bevel down. Sometimes makes a difference.
Keep shooting.
Post by: Stormrider51 on May 25, 2014, 02:06:44 PM
No, a tight spot in the barrel isn't normal. Try this test. With a clean barrel, put a lightly oiled cleaning patch on the jag and push it all the way down to the breech. The patch should be tight enough to take a little effort in getting it down there. Now, start pulling the ramrod back out slowly. You will be able to feel if you hit a point where resistance increases. Mark the rod so you can reference it later.
There are two possible outcomes. First, you may not feel any "tight spot" in a clean bore. That's good. It means that what you are feeling is powder fouling that's accumulating in the bore after the first shot. We'll get back to that in a minute. If you do feel that tight spot there's probably is a problem with the bore. Chances are that it has chatter marks from the drill that bored it. As someone else mentioned, it could be pitting or rust. If you have the tools you can try polishing the bore. If you don't have tools just bring it with you the next time you come this way. I have a long rod and bore brushes in various sizes. I wrap steel wool around a brush, coat it with valve grinding compound, and attach the rod to my electric drill. Makes short work of polishing.
Now about that fouling. I've noticed that smoothbores sometimes seem to accumulate fouling out toward the muzzle. I have a completely unproven theory about this. We tend to think of powder and projectile as being separate things but in ballistics they can be lumped together as "ejecta". When the main charge ignites the expanding gasses push everything up the bore. The unburned powder is being propelled along behind the projectile. Of course, the amount of powder remaining decreases constantly and in a perfect world the last granules would burn just before the projectile leaves the bore. Powder burns most efficiently when under pressure. But what happens when the projectile exits before all the powder is burned? You get inefficient combustion resulting in more fouling at the point where the pressure dropped. There's your "tight spot". It's not the barrel, it's just crud. No big deal. Try increasing and decreasing the powder charge and see if the tight spot moves or disappears.
Here's something else to try. Don't lube the patches. What I do is wipe the bore between shots with a 7:1 mixture of water and Ballistol. The water evaporates leaving a thin coating of oil on the bore. The patch ball combination I use is loose enough that I can thumb start the ball and run it home with minimal effort. So instead of lubing the patch I'm actually lubing the bore. Try it and tell me what you think.
The variation in ignition time is harder to diagnose long distance. I noticed you said that you prick the vent before loading. Try making that the last thing you do before priming the pan. I also keep a rag handy and wipe the face of the frizzen, the pan, and the flint between shots. The idea that priming powder piling up beside the vent slows ignition has been proven false. So has the "too much priming slows ignition" belief. If you are curious I can direct you to the website of a guy who did testing using high-speed photography.
Take care and enjoy the rest of the weekend!
Storm
Post by: Stormrider51 on May 26, 2014, 08:07:26 PM
Enjoy! Call me strange but it's stuff like this that gets my interest.
Storm
Post by: 1Poet on May 26, 2014, 09:36:27 PM
Post by: Stormrider51 on May 26, 2014, 09:54:12 PM
One last suggestion, take a look at the size of the vent hole. See if you can stick a 1/16" pin punch or drill bit into it. Also see if you can stick it in at a 90 degree angle to the bore. It's not unheard of for a breech plug to be a bit long and intrude on the flash channel.
Storm
Post by: Sir Michael on May 26, 2014, 10:08:52 PM
Post by: 1Poet on June 05, 2014, 11:57:39 PM
Post by: Kermit on June 06, 2014, 09:19:08 AM
Post by: 1Poet on June 06, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
Post by: Kermit on June 06, 2014, 12:34:56 PM
And BTW, I find round-bottomed rifling to be a blessing for loading and cleaning with no discernible difference in accuracy.
Now I'll sit back and see what I've stirred up...
Post by: Stormrider51 on June 06, 2014, 01:14:44 PM
You are correct. Whether we are talking a tight ball/patch combo or Dutch Schoultze "dry patch" the idea is to seal the bore and increase resistance. The harder it is to get the ball moving and keep it moving the greater the pressure that builds behind it. Greater pressure means more complete combustion of the powder charge. Better combustion means less fouling. The only two things I'll add is that those super-tight combinations require as nearly pure lead balls as you can find. While the patch can fill the grooves it will have to be pressed into the ball on the lands. The other thing is that 1Poet has a smoothbore. Without rifling he will probably find it much harder to get a really tight ball/patch down that bore. I found that even when I did manage to pound a tight combo down the bore I wasn't getting any better accuracy than I did with one that I could thumb start and push home easily.
Storm
Post by: Kermit on June 06, 2014, 10:48:41 PM
So my two smoothies are loaded this way:
.62 (20ga) gets a .600 ball and .015 patch. Could be tighter by a smidge.
.50 smoothrifle gets a .490 ball and .015 patch.
Gotta admit they still need a wipe more often than a tight fit in a rifle. I am not convinced I can't get nearly the same results in a smoothbore, but I'm not there. Yet. Fun trying!
Post by: Stormrider51 on June 07, 2014, 01:17:19 AM
Storm
Post by: R.M. on June 07, 2014, 01:40:06 AM
Post by: Buzzard on June 07, 2014, 07:42:53 AM
Post by: Kermit on June 07, 2014, 09:20:33 AM
Post by: Hanshi on June 07, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
(http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt74/hanshi_photo/5ef46249-8073-452f-92b6-4aaa8c3949d2_zpsa430a117.jpg) (http://http)
At the range I use a "springy thingy" that throws about 2 to 3 grains. And ALL vent holes are drilled to 1/16" and no more. Ignition is perfect. If you prefer "wet" lubes, as I do, the prb can be seated down on the powder with no problems in most cases. I frequently use some sort of op wad and that assures NO contaminated powder. The wet patch, however, should never be drippy or sloppy, just good and wet.
I like snug, not "tight" prb fit. It has to be able to be safely seated with the wood underbarrel rod or it's too tight for me. In my .50, for instance, I shoot a .590" ball with a .024" patch lubed with Hoppes. That particular has round bottom grooves but the load does just as well in other caliber guns with square rifling. In my smoothbore I can't go as tight. A .600" ball and .015" flannel patch is about as snug as I can get without pounding to seat. Since I prefer shooting WW ball (.606") a patch of any kind is problematic. Sometimes a .010" patch works with this larger ball but it depends on the type patch. It is tight and marginally seated with a wood rod. So often I shoot WW ball as a bare ball. It does surprisingly well in the accuracy department. Any gun will keep a relatively clean bore with a good, snug prb especially if a "wet" lube is used. It wipes the bore going down and leaves just one shots worth of fouling when fired. At the range I seldom wipe before packing up to go home. Tighter combos also give velocity increases and often better accuracy. While black powder will not draw moisture from the air (non-hygroscopic) the bp fouling definitely will (hygroscopic). It's the fouling trace in the pan and not the prime that is responsible for any pan slurry. If it is wet enough everything gets a little damp including clothing. There is absolutely nothing wrong nor is there any downside with wiping often. I only wipe when I feel it is necessary (rare). In the woods my first load of the day, regardless of which gun, is lubed with Natural Lube 1000. If I don't fire that day it will not rust or dry out and be ready to use the next. If fired Hoppes is used from there on out.
Well, I've managed to get on my own nerves so I'll quit. This is just stuff I learned the hard way over the decades.
Post by: 1Poet on June 08, 2014, 12:38:28 AM
Great looking priming "bone" (?) horn. I sure like the way BP folks make everything into something else!
Lloyd