Post by: RonC on October 14, 2014, 07:22:48 PM
It has an original Mortimer lock in it which is probably 1810 or later, with a 7/8 x 36" .50 barrel and he finished it February 1990. The lock has a rollered frizzen, very smooth internals. The rifle weighs in at just 6.5 lbs. Barrel has 8 lands and grooves.
One individual on another site said that it is a small Beck style. Not all agree. Another pointed out that the lock appears out of character for an otherwise, early Lancaster styled rifle. “I can't tell if the lock panels are otherwise accentuated, but would have expected to see beaver tails behind at the very least. The angle of the cheek piece and trigger guard also reflect Lancaster rather than Beck....subtle differences.”
(http://imageshack.com/a/img843/249/g2aj.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img844/5317/gzwr.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img842/654/vr674.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img838/9735/yokq.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img837/150/lhqx.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img842/6529/6r4d.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img844/7140/ev4u.jpg)
HW Mortimer was an “Armourer to the Queen” and he and his son Harvey Walklate Mortimer were London gunsmiths' between 1753 and 1819 with premises at Fleet Street (see page 187 of British Gunmakers London By Brown).
Ron
Post by: Hank in WV on October 14, 2014, 09:47:19 PM
Post by: twisted_1in66 on October 15, 2014, 10:01:13 AM
The wood, the Rococo carving, and the finish is beautiful and the sliding wood patchbox is elegant. The curve on the buttstock is consistent with Rev War era rifles. All of which point towards an early Lancaster time period. The rounded back on the lockplate however is early 1800's style which is inconsistent with the sliding wood patchbox and lack of decoration on the rifle. Rifles of the Golden-Age period were much more heavily decorated than pre-war and Rev War rifles, with brass stars or decor at the pins on the forend and often brass decor (weeping hearts, hunting stars, etc.) on the wrist and cheek-rest along with brass pierced patchboxes. Until you see the lock it looks like an early Lancaster rifle to me with an excessive amount of drop at heel and comb. And then you see the lock which is definitely Golden Age era.
You could change the lock to an early Lancaster style to be more consistent with the rest of the look of the rifle, but if it's an original Mortimer lock, it would be a crime to do so. To further complicate the style, if it was a rifle made in England by the Mortimers, it would be made out of walnut, not Maple. They didn't have the hard maple in England suitable for making guns and walnut was the preferred wood. The lock could easily have been imported from England though.
So your rifle is a bit of a conundrum... Nonetheless, it's a beautiful rifle and if you find you just can't handle the contradiction in styles, feel free to ship it to me. Then it will be my problem! :shock:
Twisted_1in66
Post by: RonC on October 15, 2014, 10:16:13 AM
I am relatively new at this, starting about 2 years ago with the purchase of 2, inexpensive, Armi San Marco and CVA percussion rifles at a rendezvous. I have only dug myself deeper into this interest and now have 2 of Shumway's books and additional flintlocks.
The rifle was built around the lock. To me, the lock represents a palpable history, a history I can touch, hold and feel. And, it sparks like crazy!
Thanks again,
Ron
Post by: snake eyes on October 15, 2014, 10:41:31 AM
Beautiful stock!
snake-eyes
Post by: gunmaker on October 15, 2014, 12:41:32 PM
Post by: Hanshi on October 15, 2014, 02:52:09 PM
Post by: RonC on October 15, 2014, 07:13:15 PM
You have stated my sentiments, as well.
I love to look at it and look forward to taking it to the range. I haven't yet become involved with the historical dress-up - no fringed leather or moccasins...yet. So, historical accuracy is not now my goal.
Ron
Post by: Kermit on October 17, 2014, 11:11:17 AM
I don't have a problem with "fantasy" guns. I wonder if those Beans were criticized for not adhering to established gun architectures of Massachusets 1730 or Lancaster County 1780. Those Kentucky/Tennessee gunbuilders didn't show no respect!
Innovation happens. Otherwise we'd all be shooting bench copies of original pieces.
Post by: RonC on October 17, 2014, 11:27:30 AM
Hey, I sort of like that Disneyland 1960 idea! After all, I did have a crush on Annette Funicello. One of the reasons I did not persist in Cowboy Action Shooting is that I felt uncomfortable dressed in the garb seen in Spaghetti Westerns B movies. However, Fess Parker Davey Crockett deer skin fringe...that's another story.
Ron
Post by: RonC on October 17, 2014, 12:05:50 PM
This target was shot at 50 yards, 490 ball, .015 Ox-Yoke patches. I shot free-hand, but with my elbow resting on a shooting table.
The precision probably is more limited by my 67 year old eyes with developing cataracts.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/a9aqEX.jpg)
Ron
Post by: RobD on October 23, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
Post by: RonC on October 23, 2014, 04:17:23 PM
I can't remember having so much fun.
Ron
Post by: RobD on October 23, 2014, 04:29:37 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/RJ9fNJQ.png?1) (http://https)
Post by: Renegade on October 23, 2014, 06:55:15 PM
She shoots as good as she looks! WOW, what a nice lookin rifle.
Post by: twisted_1in66 on October 24, 2014, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: "gunmaker"
A beautiful piece--whatever it is.....What is the drop at nose & heal by the way....Really fine work. Range report coming ? ...Tom
Hi Tom,
I used to do the gun fittings at the Orvis San Francisco store in the 90's. We sold custom fit shotguns and anyone on the West Coast who needed to be measured came to our store for that. We had a try-gun which is a gun that is almost infinitely adjustable for drop at heel, drop at comb, length of pull, offset or onset, and pitch. Drop at heel is how far below the level of the barrel the top of the butt stock measures. Drop at comb is the distance measurement where the stock starts after the wrist. An easy way to check your gun(s) is to rest them upside down on the barrel on a glass counter-top and pull out a ruler to measure it.
When I did the gun fittings, the goal was to adjust the gun so that your eye was centered over and directly above the barrel. If you have a shotgun fit like that and you mount the gun correctly consistently, it will shoot where you are looking and you don't have to make any adjustments with your head to get the correct sight picture.
Problem with a large drop at heel and comb is that it magnifies the recoil of the rifle or shotgun. It really pounds down on your shoulder. I had one gentleman who had a 4¼" drop at heel. He didn't want to move his head forward and down to the stock as you normally do when mounting a gun, so we did what was known as a "high-hat" fitting. He was a big fellow so he wasn't concerned about the increased recoil. His wife 's measurement, if I recall correctly, was a 2¼" drop at heel and 1¼" at comb, which was much more common in a normal gun fitting.
It was not uncommon to find large drop at heel with Lehigh and Buck's county rifles, but both of those styles had a very highly curved butt stock and the stock on this gun is so straight you could put a ruler along the bottom of this gun and their would be no gaps between it and the stock. Like everyone else here though, I wouldn't be too concerned whether it fits into a particular school of gun building or another. It's a beautiful piece and I'd just shoot it and enjoy it.
Twisted_1in66
Post by: Hanshi on October 24, 2014, 04:10:53 PM
Post by: 4-Liberty on October 25, 2014, 01:09:00 AM
Post by: RonC on November 11, 2014, 04:56:07 PM
I am staring at it right now!
Ron
Post by: larryS on November 11, 2014, 05:40:13 PM
Post by: RonC on November 14, 2014, 04:48:36 PM
Quote from: "larryS"
Ron, that is one beautiful piece !!! Your shooting is great as well !!Thank you, Larry!
I just returned from Ecuador and Peru and went through muzzleloader shooting withdrawal. When the Colorado Front Range Snow stops, I will head off to the range to put some lead into the hillside.
Ron
Post by: larryS on November 14, 2014, 06:02:03 PM
Post by: RonC on November 14, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
Ron
Post by: Hank in WV on November 15, 2014, 08:02:18 AM
Post by: larryS on November 15, 2014, 08:04:58 AM
Post by: snake eyes on November 15, 2014, 08:58:23 AM
Quote from: "RonC"
If there was an appropriate subforum, I would post photos of the trip.Ron,
Ron
We're not that picky when in comes to photos.Just post them at the "PHOTO"
forum.
snake-eyes
Post by: larryS on November 15, 2014, 08:59:42 AM
Post by: RonC on November 15, 2014, 10:03:42 AM
Ron
Post by: RonC on November 15, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
Ron
Post by: Riley/MN on November 15, 2014, 01:18:24 PM
Quote from: "RonC"
My wife and I planned and saved for years to go to the Galapagos Islands and Machu Pichu Inca ruins and it finally came to fruition. If there was an appropriate subforum, I would post photos of the trip. I still can hardly believe that we went.
Ron
I'm sure some pics in the "general" forum would be well accepted!