Post by: 2country on June 07, 2016, 09:13:22 AM
A,B, C weight
Barrel type swamp, straight etc
Grove count, depth and style
Length and velocity, how much loss from a .36 inch, .38 inch from a 42 inch?
Barrel thickness verses pressure, 3/4, 13/16, 7/8, 15-16
Thanks
Post by: RobD on June 07, 2016, 09:42:45 AM
the larger percentage of all this stuff hasta do with functionality and then requirements. i think we all look for a good mix of requirements, functionality, consistent accuracy, and definitely aesthetics. i don't get too wrapped up with it all, and to each their own. i like full octagon parallel barrels that have some pleasing aesthetic length and overall weight, to better replicate mid 18th century arms. with smoothies i prefer an OTR barrel. lots of aesthetics abound. it's all good one way or t'other so choose what pleases yer eye best.
Post by: 2country on June 07, 2016, 11:41:37 AM
Post by: RobD on June 07, 2016, 11:56:26 AM
Post by: Keb on June 08, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
Quote from: "2country"
Would someone explain a little on barrel choices?"A,B, C weight" Those are names the different modern barrel makers put on their products to identify the widths from breech (A is smallest) to muzzle and show the double taper sizes (swamped).
A,B, C weight
Barrel type swamp, straight etc
Grove count, depth and style
Length and velocity, how much loss from a .36 inch, .38 inch from a 42 inch?
Barrel thickness verses pressure, 3/4, 13/16, 7/8, 15-16
Thanks
Swamped barrel is bigger in the breech tapering slightly toward the muzzle . Somewhere along that taper they go straight a short distance then flare back out to the muzzle, thus, double taper or swamped.
A straight barrel is just that, same width from breech to muzzle. Some are a straight taper, going from big to small breech to muzzle with no "swamp".
"Grove count, depth and style". I am assuming you are referring to the rifling here. They say the round bottom is better than the square bottom rifling and the depth matters. I'm not so sure it really does matter. I think this might just be a sales gimmick. I've always had good luck with both types and couldn't see any difference in them. They all can be made accurate and they all need to be cleaned.
Velocity/length is something I have never been concerned with. Same with pressure. Again, you can usually get any well made barrel to perform if you spend time shooting it. I'm sure there are some people that need to know all that stuff but I'm just not one of them.
Think about this. There are some people that can shoot a smoothbored gun as good or better than other people using a rifle. That tells me not to be concerned with a bunch of trivial matters and I need to spend a lot of time behind one gun throwing lead and burning powder. Know what load that gun likes and you will know where it will hit before you pull the trigger.
Post by: RobD on June 08, 2016, 11:21:59 AM
Post by: Uncle Russ on June 10, 2016, 01:33:56 PM
Don't let the, he said, she said, they said, I read once, kind of trivia take your eye off the ball.
Get to know the gun you decide on, and don't let hearsay make choices for you.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Hanshi on June 10, 2016, 04:08:46 PM
However, for offhand shooting a straight barrel is KING. The muzzle heaviness makes the sights move very, very slowly. That front sight seems to simply "hang" right on the target. I've done my best shooting offhand with straight barrels. In the woods the swamped barrel is KING!
Post by: 2country on June 10, 2016, 05:56:50 PM
(7 lbs or under).
So a 36 inch Colerain B swamped barrel weighs about 4.5 lbs. Don’t know about the A barrel.
A Colerain 13/16" octagon 36 inch barrel weighs about 4.2.
I would be better of with the Swamped barrel?
Could I go to the 42” swamped and still be better than the 36” 13/16" octagon weight wise?
I don’t know how much stock and all weigh.
Is a walnut stock lighter than maple?
The maximum load I beleave for the 40 cal. with round ball is 70 grains of black powder.
Not that the gun will like it or that it will ever be loaded to the max, but will a 36 inch long barrel allow for all the powder to burn?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to choose my rifle wisely.
Thanks everybody.
Post by: Keb on June 11, 2016, 07:42:37 AM
This is just my opinion.
Post by: Bigsmoke on June 11, 2016, 11:00:00 PM
Functionally, I think performance wise, barrel length doesn't really do anything.
Where a longer barrel does shine, though, is with sight radius. The longer the barrel, the better the sight picture will be.
None of my big bore guns has ever had a barrel longer than 36", and the .62's - .72's all seemed to be able to utilize 200 grains of Ffg powder just fine. And the 8 bore burned 300 grains and the 4 bore liked 400 grains. In shooting over snow, I never really saw much raw powder spit out on the snow, either.
Not sure how long you are going to be able to go with the lightest weight possible.
Post by: Hawken on June 12, 2016, 01:51:42 PM
And I ain't gonna ever believe that a smoothbore (shotgun barrel) GUN is going to be as accurate as a RIFLE barrel!!
Post by: RobD on June 12, 2016, 02:31:31 PM
it will ALWAYS depend on the prime use of the firearm, AND yer aesthetics.
'nuff said.
Post by: 2country on June 12, 2016, 06:09:19 PM
Post by: RobD on June 12, 2016, 06:18:21 PM
just get a barrel to your requirements and spex.
Post by: Hanshi on June 12, 2016, 07:10:52 PM
Post by: Tourblanche on June 12, 2016, 09:34:43 PM
A very long barrel was usefull before 1720-1740 because of the powder that was made in those years .
As time passed , powder was still made with the same 3 ingredients , but
milling , mixing and granulation improved . The powder available today is probably OK for 36 " and perhaps even a bit shorter barrels .
What is your favorite time period ? Classic long rifle ( so many styles ) ? Hawken ?
Post by: RobD on June 12, 2016, 10:06:26 PM
Post by: 2country on June 14, 2016, 04:56:40 PM
I called Goex Powder inc. to get information on, barrel length and powder burn. The guy that I spoke with didn’t have a good answer.
I spoke with the folks at sittingfoxmuzzleloaders for awile, real nice guy answered all my questions. They will be getting some of my business! A rifle 36” x ¾ cross flats octagon barrel will come in at
around 6 1/2 lbs. This is what my traditions .32 cal Crocket is. It fills good but could have just a little more forward weight for better hang.
He said I can get a rifle with 13/16 octagon barrel down to around
7 ¼ lbs.
I can get a rifle with an A swamped barrel at 36” but didn’t get a weight.
Does anyone have experience with 36” x ¾ cross flats barrel in .36 cal and up?
If I go .40 cal with ¾ x 36” barrel, will the barrel be to light (flex) for good accuracy? How about a swamped A profile barrel 36” .36 cal and up?
Post by: RobD on June 14, 2016, 05:09:55 PM
for yer new rifle, just list all yer choices and filter it down to what you think of yer criteria will please you most. if you spend too much time on yer gear thinking, the gear becomes far more important than the experience of shooting and/or hunting, or the camaraderie of your shooting buds. enjoy!
Post by: 2country on June 14, 2016, 10:16:50 PM
you just need to decide what you want/require. getting opinions of others is just that
Respectfully, not a waste to me and yes I can make a choice without help from a form thought discussing things was what a form was for. I put value on others opinions that is why I asked questions and enjoyed the different opinions.
Thanks everyone for your help!
Post by: RobD on June 15, 2016, 05:20:43 AM
Quote from: "2country"
Some good input here. The gun will be a flint lock Lancaster, Southern type rifle used for hunting coyote to squirrel to rocks and flies, maybe small deer, just a do what ever fun gun.
"squirrel to deer" with considerations for .36 to .40 caliber will put a goodly emphasis on yer shooting and loading skills, and will require more thought in taking an ethical shot on critters larger than tree rats.
.....
If I go .40 cal with ¾ x 36” barrel, will the barrel be to light (flex) for good accuracy? How about a swamped A profile barrel 36” .36 cal and up?
NONE of that stuff about burn rates or barrel profile or barrel weight will matter all that much, imho. but you may also wish to consider recoil as a factor if the overall gun gets quite light.
Post by: Mike Brooks on June 15, 2016, 07:57:20 AM
Quote
The gun will be a flint lock Lancaster, Southern type rifleThat's going to be a real gem of a rifle, especially with a 36" X 3/4" X .36
I just built a late period Appalachia flint rifle with a B weight Colerain 42" X .36. The finished gun weighs 7 1/2 lbs. The A weight wight save you another 1/4 to 1/2 lb. You go with a 3/4" barrel you're going to have some real architectural problems. Of course with a Lancaster of the Southern type maybe architecture isn't an issue.
Post by: ridjrunr on June 15, 2016, 12:25:32 PM
Post by: RobD on June 15, 2016, 12:48:49 PM
Post by: Hawken on June 15, 2016, 01:45:53 PM
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1528/26530585232_0f5b65df1e_c.jpg) (http://https)Flintrifle (http://https) by Rick Mulhern (http://https), on Flickr
I cut the centers out of my 100 yard targets and save them and once I got the rear barrel sight adjusted on this rifle....the majority of shots went to center!
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7315/27591367542_6baf471a9b_z.jpg) (http://https)Flinttgts (http://https) by Rick Mulhern (http://https), on Flickr
Post by: Mike Brooks on June 15, 2016, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: "Hawken"
I know how to fly anything with wings and an engine, I know how to work on P&W radial engines, I know how to kill deer/squirrels/turkeys, and I know how to shoot a rifle. But what I am not schooled in or adept at is building a Traditional Rifle. Long ago I discovered that there are people out there that are smarter than I am and that my Dad taught me that if I wanted to learn how to grow corn....it was wise to go ask a man that had a crib full! So...a while back when I ran across a FOR SALE ad that Mr. Tom Watson over in Georgia had put up for a .50 caliber Traditional Flintlock that he had built up, I called him and asked about his experience with these rifles. He advised that he had 39 years experience in building them and that the rifle I was asking about was a 'shooter'! I bought that rifle and I discovered that Mr Watson's word is as good as gold! Being a 'newbie' to flintlocks I had a few problems at first but Tom assisted me with getting 'squared away' and now...this flintlock fires every time I squeeze the trigger! I believe it pays to listen to an experienced rifle builder!!That's a nice Hawken.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1528/26530585232_0f5b65df1e_c.jpg) (http://https)Flintrifle (http://https) by Rick Mulhern (http://https), on Flickr
I cut the centers out of my 100 yard targets and save them and once I got the rear barrel sight adjusted on this rifle....the majority of shots went to center!
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7315/27591367542_6baf471a9b_z.jpg) (http://https)Flinttgts (http://https) by Rick Mulhern (http://https), on Flickr
Post by: RobD on June 16, 2016, 06:00:25 AM
Quote from: "Hawken"
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1528/26530585232_0f5b65df1e_c.jpg) (http://https)Flintrifle (http://https) by Rick Mulhern (http://https), on Flickr
just ... absolutely ... beautiful.
and she's a shooter to boot!
curious as to what's the barrel length?
Post by: Hawken on June 16, 2016, 08:19:04 AM
Post by: RobD on June 16, 2016, 08:27:05 AM
man, that is just one awesome hawken ... i wished you didn't post those pics, now i need to get me one of those!!!
Post by: Hawken on June 16, 2016, 08:30:56 AM
Quote from: "rfd"
i was gonna guess 34" but 35" is darned perfect. too.
man, that is just one awesome hawken ... i wished you didn't post those pics, now i need to get me one of those!!!
Hold out for one with a Sharon barrel! :salute
Post by: RobD on June 16, 2016, 08:41:15 AM
Post by: Hanshi on June 16, 2016, 04:10:56 PM
Post by: Hawken on June 16, 2016, 05:11:58 PM
Quote from: "Hanshi"
That is a very fine looking Hawken you got there.
Thanks!
I'm somewhat proud of it!! :salute
Post by: RobD on June 16, 2016, 05:28:03 PM
rob@tradmla.org
thanx!
rob.
Post by: Hawken on June 16, 2016, 05:42:21 PM
Post by: RobD on June 16, 2016, 05:47:52 PM
i really like your hawken!!!
Post by: Hawken on June 16, 2016, 11:20:29 PM
Quote from: "rfd"
very much obliged, sir!
i really like your hawken!!!
I've tried! Don't know whether Tom is sick or what! Source can't reach him!! :roll eyes
Post by: Hawken on June 16, 2016, 11:24:25 PM
Quote from: "Hawken"
Quote from: "rfd"very much obliged, sir!
i really like your hawken!!!
I've tried! Don't know whether Tom is sick or what! Source can't reach him!! :roll eyes
HOORAY!
Tom just sent me an email!
flintshooter@outlook.com
Good luck!
Post by: RobD on June 17, 2016, 04:48:15 AM
Post by: Hawken on June 17, 2016, 10:45:11 AM
Quote from: "rfd"
thanks for your help, i've emailed tom and we're getting down to the spex for my hawken build. life's still good. :hairy
Post by: Uncle Russ on June 17, 2016, 12:11:20 PM
Caring and kindness goes a looong way in the TMA!
Fellowship...what would the world be without it?
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Hawken on June 17, 2016, 12:45:55 PM
Quote from: "RussB"
Hawken, you going the extra mile to help rfd get in touch with the builder was certainly a nice gesture on your part, thank you for doing that!
Caring and kindness goes a looong way in the TMA!
Fellowship...what would the world be without it?
:hairy
Shooters....need to help shooters!
Thanks!
Post by: Rocklock on June 18, 2016, 10:21:06 AM
I don't think a rifle should swing like a shotgun nor should a shotgun hang like a rifle.