Traditional Muzzleloading Association
TMA Events and Activites => TMA Special Event Shoots => Topic started by: Ohio Joe on July 16, 2017, 10:14:33 PM
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New for August 2017; This Match Will Be Open From August 1 through August 31
TMA Smoothbore Match (Trial Run) (Two Classes; No Rear Sight & Rear Sight) Be Sure To Mark Your Target So I Know Which Class You Shot In)
Those interested should go to the Link below and print off the SB-75 target
http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/TMA-Targets/
http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/TMA-Targets/SB-75.pdf
The Rules are pretty straight forward;
1. From 25 Yards Standing/Offhand - take 5 shots only at the SB-75 TMA Target.
2. Mail your target to me; Post Mark Can Be No Later Then September 1st.
Joe Martin - TMA NMD
315 Coates St.
Crawford, NE 69339
NOTE: Put your screen name on your target, along with your TMA Membership Number (If you are a paid member)
Include what type of smoothbore and caliber/gauge you used and also if it has a rear sight or not.
3. Scoring will be; "The Ball Must Break The Higher Scoring Ring To Get The Higher Score Value.
This is a trial run smoothbore match for future smoothbore matches here at the TMA.
Please direct any questions / discussion or comments, here in this thread.
Thank you and have fun.
All TMA Safety Rules & Disclaimers Apply...
By entering any or all of the following TMA Postal Matches, you (the competitor), assume all or any risk of participation and also agree to indemnify and hold harmless the TMA, it's agents, Representatives and/or volunteers from any claim for property loss or bodily injury resulting from, you (the competitor), through your participation, and have agreed to this through your participation in these said Postal Matches.
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I am in! Sounds like fun! :)
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X 2 :bl th up
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I'd like to try this one as well, Joe. And thanks for sponsoring a smoothbore match! :bl th up
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This is gonna be interesting for sure. I might actually be able to hit the paper a couple times come August... :laffing :pray:
We've also got another target in our TMA Target download area that might make a good one to take some shots at in the future. It's the TMA-XB-1B...
http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/TMA-Targets/XB-1B.pdf
We'll save this one for our second match.
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Got it done today, Joe. Target will be in the mail tomorrow.
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Got it done today, Joe. Target will be in the mail tomorrow.
Wow Maven, you don't waste any time my friend! :bl th up This match isn't scheduled to start until August 1st, but that's ok, I'll still gladly accept the target you shot today. :toast :shake
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I shot my Mike Fink target today. I am trying to decide if the sun got in my eyes, it was too windy, too hot, too cold, I haven't shot that rifle enough or some other excuse I haven't thought of yet. I think I will wait until August to shoot the smoothbore match. Maybe I will have recovered from this experience by then. :Doh!
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great, another fun match to prove how bad i can shoot. :applaud :Doh!
count me in. :shake :*:
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Oh Rob, you haven't seen bad yet. Wait until I shoot mine!!! :laffing
I shot my Mike Fink target today. I am trying to decide if the sun got in my eyes, it was too windy, too hot, too cold, I haven't shot that rifle enough or some other excuse I haven't thought of yet.
amm1851, I shot my Fink target July 1st or 2nd (can't remember for sure), and have been searching the book of Two Steps for my best explanation of how I shot... Scary stuff.... :lol sign
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:laffing :laffing
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Please feel free to use any and all you need Joe...I have plenty. ::)
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Please feel free to use any and all you need Joe...I have plenty. ::)
Mighty nice of you, Al... :shake
I'm leaning towards the floaties, but I don't think anyone's gonna believe me since it's pretty dry out my way. I'm gonna have to come up with somethin' big to sell it... :pray: :)
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Joe, I mailed my Fink target to you the other day and forgot to put my TMA number on it. :o
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No problem amm1851, I'll keep an eye out for it. :bl th up
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shot the mike fink yesterday and was prepared to shot the smoothbore but had ignition problems yet again. phooey. i'm gonna be a DNF on this match, rats! :P
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I gotta pretty good idea where mine is not shooting,,, (where I'd like it to... :pray: But I'll take what she gives me... :hairy
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Lynn...Please, wash your mouth out with soap (home made lye soap of course)!! I would never stoop to using an excuse. I offer only explanations and reasons...Never an excuse 8) (but thanks for the idea ::)
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OK Joe...I thought I'd just mosey on out and do some smoothbore shootin' today. Seems like some of the fellers are having a bit of a time with their smoothies so I thought I'd just show 'em how it's supposed to work. I did the ole eeney meeny miney mo thing and ended up with my 20Ga flinter.
Had a couple of tech issues when I got to the range...maybe more on them later...you know...just to help others.
Now some of these folks will look at this target and think--Darn, that's a poorly shot target (or thoughts to that effect). But you Joe, knowing of my excellent marksmanship skills will know better. First off, you know that I hate to just waste a whole target by putting all my holes real close together in one place...I like to make use of the whole darn target! Second, you know that I love to fish...I'm going in the morning and I was thinking about how I was going to fish all around the edge of the lake, so naturally I thought I'd just put my RBs around the edge of the target...on purpose of course. When I looked at my target I was a little let down that I hadn't gone around the edge as good as I wanted...BUT...when I got back to the shop and checked the weather, I found the problem. Of course it wasn't me, the darn wind was out of the North East! Now everybody knows that a NE wind isn't the best for fishing...so it must have an effect on shooting too. Glad a found the reason...so I wouldn't be tempted to lower myself to using an excuse! 8)
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Well Al, my first thoughts when seeing your target,,, I thought you cut line and went to town for more bait.... :laffing
I will be extremely lucky (and I do mean "lucky") if I can do that well. :shake
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Shucks, nothing wrong with that target. Why, if it was a man you would have got him right where it hurts! :laffing :laffing :laffing
~WH~
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:lol sign :laffing :laffing :bow :applaud
Great one!
:hairy
Uncle Russ...
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not fer nothin', al - at least you used the CORRECT target face and actually got a positive SCORE! :lol sign :applaud :*:
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If it makes ya feel any better Rob...some years back I did shoot AND mail in the wrong target. Or more likely...I was the only one who shot the correct target and the other guys goofed. Yeah, that's it, they messed up... I feel better now :toast
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If it makes ya feel any better Rob...some years back I did shoot AND mail in the wrong target. Or more likely...I was the only one who shot the correct target and the other guys goofed. Yeah, that's it, they messed up... I feel better now :toast
:applaud :laffing :*:
dang, i forgot to add this >>>----> :toast
i must be getting ready for next year's match. :Doh! :lol sign
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Just got home and caught on to this thread. Good timing for me. I recently acquired a New England fowler. 46" Getz barrel, oct-round, .62cal/20 ga, no rear sight. I'm shooting it like my long bow. Instinctively/gap shooting. Still working on the sight picture.
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I have been telling you guys since this thread started that I am the proud owner of a .56 Cal Smooth Rifle that is the most accurate Smoothbore I have ever owned or shot in my entire life.
This morning I got to prove it!
This rifle is sinfully accurate, in fact, there is little difference in this rifle and other "Rifled" rifles I have owned over the years.
My first shot....I set the small black on top of the front post.
After that, I sat the large black ring on top of the front post, and it was downhill after that.
I got more than just a little nervous when I couldn't see where shots 2 and 3 hit, so I walked down to the target and saw my hold was good to go for the next two shots.
Today, I shot my Smooth bore targets, my Mike Fink, and my monthly Silly-Wet targets.
And I have to admit "I shot over my head"....all day!
It has been several years since I shot this many targets, and did even half as well as I did today, and for that I am very grateful! :pray:
Like I said....Sinfully Accurate!
Plus, it makes an old man feel really good inside, once again!
(http://i.imgur.com/e4TX5ql.jpg) (http://imgur.com/e4TX5ql)
Uncle Russ...
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day-em, that's AWESOME smoothbore shootin'! :bl th up :bl th up :wave :applaud
i'm sure glad i'm on yer team! yer like the cavalry that done come to rescue my krappy scores! :shake :bow
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Whoooeee!!! Looks like you been savin that up fer a while.
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"This rifle is sinfully accurate, in fact, there is little difference in this rifle and other "Rifled" rifles I have owned over the years." ...RussB
My T/C Renegade .56cal. smoothbore* is like yours Russ; and that's some fine shooting! :bl th up
*I was fortunate enough to find a like new .550" Lyman RB mold for a shockingly small sum on eBay some years ago. Finding thin patch material (.010", compressed) was a tad more difficult, but it works and doesn't burn through with 80gr. - 90gr. charges of FFg. A lubed felt or card stock OP wad helps wring the last bit of accuracy out of it.
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Whoooeee!!! Looks like you been savin that up fer a while.
Yep Hank...my first 'outing' in several months.
Normally, by this time of the year, I will have shot 2, maybe even 3 cans of powder, but not this year. It has been a rough time around my house.
As you well know, I have been a "stay at home" kind of guy for sometime now, and all for good reason.....My wife has now got her "mend" on and doing sooo much better!
With my daughter Kathy staying home today from work, I took advantage of that and went shooting.
Jan says to tell ya Hi from her, and let you know you left at about the right time...it has been triple digit temperatures for over six weeks now, wildfires are all over the place, with the biggest one being in British Columbia involving thousands of acres of prime forest, leaving about 35,000 people homeless, according to last nights news..
Prevailing winds has brought a good majority of the smoke and ash from that fire to us here in the Columbia Basin, and with our high temperatures it just seem to hang in the air...ugly times indeed!
When I went to the Range this morning I took a picture of Ephrata, or what you could see of Ephrata for all the smoke hanging in the air.....You can't see the town at all, and you can just barley make out the mountains in the background!
(http://i.imgur.com/fT0ttbe.jpg)
Thank you Maven!
I contribute a lot of what we see in that target to two things.
1) A lot of luck!
2) The new L&R Lock, and a few other things I did to that Renegade platform.
I have a JT Mold that throws .551, and with a OP Card, and a 0.0010 Patched RB over 70 / 75gr Goex FFFg, the rifle has always shot really well, remarkably well in fact, but today I honestly believe that Lock made a really BIG difference.
It took me years to learn to trust my wobbles, and learn to correctly call my shot as soon as it broke, if everything was 'just right' from stance to breathing, I could bank on that call.
Today I found myself "chasing" the front sight because the break was somehow different.
It took several shots before I realized this lock is a lot faster...I would have never believed it until I witnessed it myself.
Chasing that front sight will drive a young man stark raving mad, that is if they've never learned to trust their wobble with correct follow through. Ignition plays a major role in follow through and impact, much more than most folks realize, and today I got another wake-up call to that fact.
Uncle Russ...
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"tweaked" the jackie .62 smoothie yesterday by pulling the barrel and breech yet again, then rat tailed a shard of metal left from tapping the touch hole liner, then took the parallel trough cut into the breech plug's face and used a dremel with small stone to knock down those sharp edges and flare that trough channel wider as it got to the edge of the plug, where it would line up with the touch hole. shudda taken a picture but was strapped for time, though i'm sure i'll be taking it all apart yet again. also drilled out the "fake white lightning" touch hole from .062" to .078".
this wednesday i'll give 'er another go at the smoothbore target. can't let russ cover my slacking, i gotta get a score in! heck, a point or two would be better than a DNF! ;D :o 8)
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That is some NICE shooting Russ! :toast :hairy
Looking forward to seeing those Silly-wet targets. Wow! talk about making a run - you're doing fantastic!
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Great shooting, Uncle Russ! I am glad to hear your wife is feeling better and you got to get out to the range. It has been hot and smoky here too. I am looking forward to cooler temps this fall. :bl th up
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Great shootin' there Russ :bl th up Reckon I'll have to try my .56 next time out...I'll show it a picture of your target before I start, just to get it's head straight ::)
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Yep, Jan sure got that right. Time to get out of Dodge when the temps get that high :P. This old man can't take too much of that any more. Hey to Jan and Kathy. Glad she's feeling better. Sounds like you might be too. Seems like I remember the name Ephrata from my earlier trip out there. Either passed it or saw a sign for it on our trip up to Coulee Dam.
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well, i got the jackie .62 to fire reliably today at the range. it worked darned good. off the bench i was making a huge wide hole with those .595 patched balls. out of the bag was a diff'rent story (who hasn't been there with offhand shooting? not me!) and at least i got 5 holes in the smoothbore postal target face. the load that worked best for me was 60 grains of swiss 3f under a .015 grease patched .595 lead ball. over this past weekend i pulled the breech plug and with a stone wheel on a dremel i smoothed and flared out that narrow 3/16" trough/channel in the plug's flat face, then reamed the .062" vent to .078". she goes off fast and easy, and loading is still thumb started and easy pushing down to the chamber where bouncing the rod homes the ball for a compressed load. anyhoo, great day at the range, as always.
:applaud :wave
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Yeaaaa Haw! Good on you Rob! :bl th up
I have to tell you Rob, that is as good as I can do with any of my smothbores, except for the .56.
In fact, that is much better than I can do with my .69....and about on par for my .62.
With both of these guns I have just never got the "hang of it" try as hard as I might, even though the .69 does have a rear sight.
It just ain't there for me, or at best, I just haven't found it....I wish that was not the case, but it is.
I'm glad you're on to something there.
There's nothing, in my mind, that's any more elating than knocking the fire out of the black when ya got things working for you.
Congratulations!
:hairy
Uncle Russ...
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Nice shooting Rob. One of these days I'm going to get out to the Range and continue load testing with my NWTG I picked up from Rondo, however it won't be until after mid-month... Grandson and I still have some fishing to do before he heads back to school next week. :bl th up
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it'd have been nice shootin' if them holes had drifted a bit eastward on that target face. :Doh! :lol sign
oh well, it's a challenge to improve, and that's half the fun of these smokepoles! :*:
love the smoothbores - a real challenge with only a front sight blade! i think if *had* to have only one muzzleloader, it'd be a .62 smoothie for sure. :bl th up :bl th up
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Nice target Rob :bl th up Did you try closing your frizzen before you load up to see if you were pushing powder into the pan? I have one long gun that I can do that with...self priming saves me a step in the loading process. It's not for a perfectionist (maybe different grains in the pan each load) but with my old eyes and hands...it's close enough :toast
Al
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al, i run in and leave a short piece of .053 phosphor-bronze round-wound acoustic guitar string wire into the touch hole before dumping down the powder. after the patched ball is seated, pulling out the round-wound wire loads the inner cone of the touch hole and dribbles a few kernals into the pan, which gets some added grains for priming. ignition is fast and sure. what really helped this gun was smoothing and flaring the trough/trench/channel in the face of the breech plug, and a 5/64" drill bit ddn't hurt that touch hole liner, either! now this gun is a bona fide shooter at last. amen to that. :bow
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Well Uncle Russ and Rob, with those targets you two have chased "all the kids off the block!" including this one! Whipped before I even primed the pan! Maybe I can hit paper if I use buck..................
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Well Uncle Russ and Rob, with those targets you two have chased "all the kids off the block!" including this one! Whipped before I even primed the pan! Maybe I can hit paper if I use buck..................
Lynn,... I was thinkin' the same thing. :o
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Well Uncle Russ and Rob, with those targets you two have chased "all the kids off the block!" including this one! Whipped before I even primed the pan! Maybe I can hit paper if I use buck..................
Greyhunter, you and I both know there was a tremendous amount of luck in that target I shot.
Still yet, when it comes to that .56 cal Renegade, their accuracy is just one of the reasons they are 'outlawed' at many smoothbore matches...they also have an adjustable rear rifle sight and they are, by all rights, a Smoothbore Rifle....
I said earlier they are "Sinfully Accurate", and indeed they are.
With the proper load they truly shine, still yet they are very forgiving, no matter what load you are shooting.
Plus, I regularly shoot 1.25oz shot in front of 70 / 75 grains of Goex FFFg....the Renegade has just never received the popularity it so rightfully deserves.
Just ask any Renegade .56 owner, it's the same story no matter where you go.
I have been bragging about this rifle for years on end now, and when Joe permitted them in this "trail match" it was the perfect chance to show what these things are capable of, although it was even more than I had anticipated, but simply put....."there ain't no fleas on this dog, it will hunt!"
Uncle Russ...
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Well Uncle Russ and Rob, with those targets you two have chased "all the kids off the block!" including this one! Whipped before I even primed the pan! Maybe I can hit paper if I use buck..................
Lynn,... I was thinkin' the same thing. :o
Russ,.... if we can't out-shoot ya, maybe with enough cover we can at least surround ya and make ya say "uncle". :laffing
I just bought another Northstar West trade gun today (that's the 2nd. one in about a month). :bl th up
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Well Uncle Russ and Rob, with those targets you two have chased "all the kids off the block!" including this one! Whipped before I even primed the pan! Maybe I can hit paper if I use buck..................
Lynn,... I was thinkin' the same thing. :o
Russ,.... if we can't out-shoot ya, maybe with enough cover we can at least surround ya and make ya say "uncle". :laffing
I just bought another Northstar West trade gun today (that's the 2nd. one in about a month). :bl th up
Make me say Uncle??? :applaud
Rondo, You'll never believe who I though of when I read that!!
Do you remember, from years and years back, a fella named "Maxi-Ball"?
Back in the days when we were all on the old shooters dot com?
I can't remember his real name for the life of me, but he is the one that first started calling me Uncle Russ...then the Paso Del Norte bunch started, then the GRMM started, it seems to have just stuck.
Another new Gun?
WOW! When I grow up I wanna be just like you and Rob, and Joe!
Take a new gun to the range every time I go...lol
Uncle Russ...
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Well Uncle Russ and Rob, with those targets you two have chased "all the kids off the block!" including this one! Whipped before I even primed the pan! Maybe I can hit paper if I use buck..................
Lynn,... I was thinkin' the same thing. :o
Russ,.... if we can't out-shoot ya, maybe with enough cover we can at least surround ya and make ya say "uncle". :laffing
I just bought another Northstar West trade gun today (that's the 2nd. one in about a month). :bl th up
Make me say Uncle??? :applaud
Rondo, You'll never believe who I though of when I read that!!
Do you remember, from years and years back, a fella named "Maxi-Ball"?
Back in the days when we were all on the old shooters dot com?
I can't remember his real name for the life of me, but he is the one that first started calling me Uncle Russ...then the Paso Del Norte bunch started, then the GRMM started, it seems to have just stuck.
Another new Gun?
WOW! When I grow up I wanna be just like you and Rob, and Joe!
Take a new gun to the range every time I go...lol
Uncle Russ...
Yeah Russ,.... I remember ol' Maxi-Ball, he was quite a character, I wonder if he's still around on some other website. :laffing
I don't know about Joe, and Rob,.... but I'm gonna keep buyin' these things 'til I get one that shoots center each'n every shot, day or night, summer'n winter, right-handed or left-handed. :bl th up :) :toast :*:
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I recall Maxi-Ball on the Muzzle Loading Forum and perhaps even Greybeards Forum, but I haven't seen any of his posts for years.
If Rondo gets tired of the first Northstar West TG and he brings it to Rondy next year,,, who knows??? I'll mow the weeds down for him before he and Beth arrive, set up their camp when they arrive, fetch 'em water and ice, pick the tics off 'em, make them a comfortable campfire, cook and serve them breakfeast, lunch, and dinner, and tuck 'em in at night,,, and just treat those fine (and I do mean, Fine folks) the way they ought to be 'cause they're my best'us friends, and I'll even volunteer to take those NSW TG's out for a little exercise when needed! :hairy
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I recall Maxi-Ball on the Muzzle Loading Forum and perhaps even Greybeards Forum, but I haven't seen any of his posts for years.
If Rondo gets tired of the first Northstar West TG and he brings it to Rondy next year,,, who knows??? I'll mow the weeds down for him before he and Beth arrive, set up their camp when they arrive, fetch 'em water and ice, pick the tics off 'em, make them a comfortable campfire, cook and serve them breakfeast, lunch, and dinner, and tuck 'em in at night,,, and just treat those fine (and I do mean, Fine folks) the way they ought to be 'cause they're my best'us friends, and I'll even volunteer to take those NSW TG's out for a little exercise when needed! :hairy
"Pic the ticks of 'em at night"...... :lol sign :applaud
:hairy
You guys crack me up!
Uncle Russ...
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I recall Maxi-Ball on the Muzzle Loading Forum and perhaps even Greybeards Forum, but I haven't seen any of his posts for years.
If Rondo gets tired of the first Northstar West TG and he brings it to Rondy next year,,, who knows??? I'll mow the weeds down for him before he and Beth arrive, set up their camp when they arrive, fetch 'em water and ice, pick the tics off 'em, make them a comfortable campfire, cook and serve them breakfeast, lunch, and dinner, and tuck 'em in at night,,, and just treat those fine (and I do mean, Fine folks) the way they ought to be 'cause they're my best'us friends, and I'll even volunteer to take those NSW TG's out for a little exercise when needed! :hairy
WELL :o,........ that certainly sounds like an offer that'll be hard to refuse. :laffing :shake :toast :*: :hairy
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I recall Maxi-Ball on the Muzzle Loading Forum and perhaps even Greybeards Forum, but I haven't seen any of his posts for years.
If Rondo gets tired of the first Northstar West TG and he brings it to Rondy next year,,, who knows??? I'll mow the weeds down for him before he and Beth arrive, set up their camp when they arrive, fetch 'em water and ice, pick the tics off 'em, make them a comfortable campfire, cook and serve them breakfeast, lunch, and dinner, and tuck 'em in at night,,, and just treat those fine (and I do mean, Fine folks) the way they ought to be 'cause they're my best'us friends, and I'll even volunteer to take those NSW TG's out for a little exercise when needed! :hairy
"Pic the ticks of 'em at night"...... :lol sign :applaud
:hairy
You guys crack me up!
Uncle Russ...
That ol' tic pickin' can be a deal maker for sure! :laffing :toast
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My smoothbore target is on its way. This it the first time I have ever shot a RB out of a smoothy. Also the first time I shot this gun. The gun is a T/C Hawken that I got for free from a guy who built it as a kit, shot it about 10 rounds and then put it in his damp basement uncleaned. She was a rust bucket so I sent the barrel to Bobby Hoyt and told him to bore it out as big as he could do safely. So now although the barrel says 45 she is a 58. I redid the stock and browned the barrel. I have tried to post pictures of the target and gun but they don't show up when I hit preview so I don't know if they'll show when I hit post. Not sure what I am doing wrong.
Dave
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Good looking target, Dave! I'm gonna have to Google Bobby Hoyt and see about maybe making my Pennsylvania Hunter a .54...
~WH~
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WH, thanks. I just leave it up to Bobby as to safety. It all depends on the depths of the sight and pin in-letting depths. No rear sight on this one at least so far. Bobby's number is (717) 642-6696. Headed for our remote cabin in Vermont this morning so will be off the grid for a couple of weeks. :hairy
Dave
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Nice target for your 1st outing with RB's in that gun, Dave! :bl th up
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My smoothbore target is on its way. This it the first time I have ever shot a RB out of a smoothy. Also the first time I shot this gun. The gun is a T/C Hawken that I got for free from a guy who built it as a kit, shot it about 10 rounds and then put it in his damp basement uncleaned. She was a rust bucket so I sent the barrel to Bobby Hoyt and told him to bore it out as big as he could do safely. So now although the barrel says 45 she is a 58. I redid the stock and browned the barrel. I have tried to post pictures of the target and gun but they don't show up when I hit preview so I don't know if they'll show when I hit post. Not sure what I am doing wrong.
Dave
Dave, IMHO, that is good, real good, for a smoothbore.
Over the years I have been witness to guys shooting their smoothbores where I just turned green with envy.
Many of them whuppin my butt while I was shooting a rifled rifle...and I'm not all that bad with my rifles....it's just that they were that good, using only a bead for a sight....Grrrrrr! :bow
In fact, over the years I have spent some pretty big bucks on smoothbores, all in the hopes of learning to shoot them just like those guys do, but it has all been to no avail. I just can't seem to get the hang of sighting those things!
I wish it was otherwise, but it is what it is.
BTW: I can see your pictures just fine.
(Most of the time it's the other way around for me.)
Uncle Russ...
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We finally got a little break in the weather so I hope to get out to the woods tomorrow and do some shooting, including my last-place winning target in the smoothbore shoot. As Uncle Russ can confirm, we have had a long, hot dry spell in these parts. Come on, fall weather! :bl th up
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We finally got a little break in the weather so I hope to get out to the woods tomorrow and do some shooting, including my last-place winning target in the smoothbore shoot. As Uncle Russ can confirm, we have had a long, hot dry spell in these parts. Come on, fall weather! :bl th up
Good Luck John!
YES! We have had the hottest, driest , summer in years.
When we have those three digit days that occur one right after the other, you just can't hide from the heat...it's everywhere!
Get out if you can John...today, and even this entire week, is supposed to be a bit cooler, actually a lot cooler than what we've been seeing.
Uncle Russ...
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Well, tomorrow (August 15th) I'm going to go shoot my smoothie and see if I can hit at least one scoring Ring in the, No Rear Sight Class... :pray:
This was a good idea that Maven came up with by golly! :bl th up Counting myself, and dmarsh's target, and amm1851's, when they arrive - this will give us 9 participants to date, which I expect will grow a bit more since we have until the end of August.
Mighty good suggestion, Maven! :toast
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I had a great day shooting but a poor day hitting, so let's just assume that I came in last in the smoothbore shoot. I did fine hitting my metal target at around 40 yards using the side of a tree for support, but when I shot the paper target offhand at 25 yards, things fell apart. But the weather was perfect and it was wonderful to be back in the woods for a few hours. :bl th up
Here's where I like to shoot :
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Like you amm, I experience paper target woes a tad too often for comfort too! On the other hand, we should be overjoyed not to have to shoot at the well known (and aptly named!) "nightmare target" pictured in the link: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=45270.0 Can you imagine if Ohio Joe uses that one for next year's silhouette match? ::)
Joe, After you get used to the missing rear sight, things fall into place rather nicely. With smoothies, it's more a question of determining what your gun prefers: patched RB? OP wads + bare ball + OS wad? tow wadding + bare ball + tow wadding? rather than presence or absence of a rear sight. Ball diameter is the common denominator in all 3 of these as is a consistent sight picture and cheek weld.
And yes, I'll take the blame for the SB Match! :laffing :) Thanks for running it! :hairy
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Like you amm, I experience paper target woes a tad too often for comfort too! On the other hand, we should be overjoyed not to have to shoot at the well known (and aptly named!) "nightmare target" pictured in the link: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=45270.0 Can you imagine if Ohio Joe uses that one for next year's silhouette match? ::)
Joe, After you get used to the missing rear sight, things fall into place rather nicely. With smoothies, it's more a question of determining what your gun prefers: patched RB? OP wads + bare ball + OS wad? tow wadding + bare ball + tow wadding? rather than presence or absence of a rear sight. Ball diameter is the common denominator in all 3 of these as is a consistent sight picture and cheek weld.
And yes, I'll take the blame for the SB Match! :laffing :) Thanks for running it! :hairy
I think we'd all want some younger eyesight id we were to shoot that nightmare target. :) I have to say, that whoever shot that one in the picture "link" above, did pretty darn good! :bl th up And don't worry about the blame, Maven... It's a good kind!!! :hairy
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I had a great day shooting but a poor day hitting, so let's just assume that I came in last in the smoothbore shoot. I did fine hitting my metal target at around 40 yards using the side of a tree for support, but when I shot the paper target offhand at 25 yards, things fell apart. But the weather was perfect and it was wonderful to be back in the woods for a few hours. :bl th up
Here's where I like to shoot :
That's a nice shooting area, amm1851. :bl th up You've gotta love the privacy of it. :shake
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I had a great day shooting but a poor day hitting, so let's just assume that I came in last in the smoothbore shoot. I did fine hitting my metal target at around 40 yards using the side of a tree for support, but when I shot the paper target offhand at 25 yards, things fell apart. But the weather was perfect and it was wonderful to be back in the woods for a few hours. :bl th up
Here's where I like to shoot :
That's a nice shooting area, amm1851. :bl th up You've gotta love the privacy of it. :shake
Thanks Joe. It's a dispersed camping site off a logging road in north central Idaho. A nice little creek flows through it, and I typically set my target on the far side of the creek and use the tree in the left foreground to rest against. I have been shooting there for years. If that tree could talk, it could tell some stories, but I have sworn it to secrecy. :laffing
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I had a great day shooting but a poor day hitting, so let's just assume that I came in last in the smoothbore shoot. I did fine hitting my metal target at around 40 yards using the side of a tree for support, but when I shot the paper target offhand at 25 yards, things fell apart. But the weather was perfect and it was wonderful to be back in the woods for a few hours. :bl th up
Here's where I like to shoot :
That's a nice shooting area, amm1851. :bl th up You've gotta love the privacy of it. :shake
Thanks Joe. It's a dispersed camping site off a logging road in north central Idaho. A nice little creek flows through it, and I typically set my target on the far side of the creek and use the tree in the left foreground to rest against. I have been shooting there for years. If that tree could talk, it could tell some stories, but I have sworn it to secrecy. :laffing
I really like those kind of area's to go shooting. A person has a lot of privacy, and the setting is just perfect! :bl th up
I'm headed to my local Range in an hour or so to see how/what I can do with my smoothie. I don't have high expectations, but it's sure fun to shoot! I'd settle for at least one hit in the Scoring Rings for this month's match. It keeps a person coming back and always hopeful they'll be some headway made on improvements from the practice... Great fun! :hairy
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"I'd settle for at least one hit in the Scoring Rings for this month's match. It keeps a person coming back and always hopeful they'll be some headway made on improvements from the practice...."
OJ, Sort of like a slot machine, but more fun and more user control! ;)
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"I'd settle for at least one hit in the Scoring Rings for this month's match. It keeps a person coming back and always hopeful they'll be some headway made on improvements from the practice...."
OJ, Sort of like a slot machine, but more fun and more user control! ;)
You betcha Maven, and low and behold I did better then 1 Scoring Ring,,, I got 2 Scoring Rings! :bl th up
(http://i.imgur.com/EafiykF.jpg) (http://imgur.com/EafiykF)
(http://i.imgur.com/sBPgRCw.jpg) (http://imgur.com/sBPgRCw)
At least I didn't hit my target rack for a change, and I actually hit the paper 3 times along with two outer right side cardboard hits, so I'm plumb pleased as now my next goal is three counters out of five shots on our next Smoothie Match! Small steps... :toast
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LOL, I know exactly what you mean Joe!
When I am trying to make paper for the first time, with any of my rifles, the first thing that goes through my mind is, "God, I hope I don't hit my target frame"!
Same thing with the Chronograph .....I get it all set up, the target looks good when looking through the sky screens for alignment, and then, just seconds before I touch one off, I'm thinking, "God, I hope I don't hit my Chronograph"....
Joe, I'm no expert when it comes to PRB in a smoothie, far from it.
But from what I see, and assuming your hold was the same each shot, my impression would be that that ball needs more speed, and a wee bit of left windage.
A tighter patch might help, but I would definitely try FFg and use a hard / harder to start PRB.
I've seen similar patterns and they don't come from sight pictures.....try changing powder first.
Uncle Russ...
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Joe,.... what was your load on that target, and ball size? :*:
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Russ, I was aiming left edge center, but can't be sure with the alignment without a rear sight. I'm still working on this. :)
Today's load was a .580 ball atop 90 grains 1fg w/ 4f prime, (powder - wad - ball - wad... (Oh, I bet you see that 80g wrote in blue at the lower left corner of the target behind my official target, That was from when I was working on loads when I first got this smoothie from Rondo).
In any event (and you are correct) I need to continue my research practice sessions with different load combo's. I'm thinking my next practice session will be with the 2f rather then the 1f, and I'll go 100g 2fg w/ wad - .580 ball - wad... See what it does.
I did try a patched ball several times with different charges, and had no good results at all. Of course that was with the 1fg, but it wasn't until I started using the newspaper wadding that I saw improvements.
Now I'm going to test a larger ball and 2fg powder, though to my feeling of the ignition of this smoothie - I don't feel I'm getting any hesitation in ignition, but the only way tell is to try the 2fg and see.
This morning's shoot is a big win for me as I don't have to repair my target stand. :applaud I get a'lot of enjoyment out'a this smoothie. :hairy
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Joe,.... what was your load on that target, and ball size? :*:
I was using; 95g 1fg - wad - .580 ball - wad, this morning Rondo. :shake
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Let's see, 3 hits on paper, 2 in the scoring rings, and 0 in the target frame. I'd call that good, Joe. :bl th up Three questions for you: Have you bench rested the gun with the same load combination @ 25 yd.? If so, did it group well? If not, it may suggest a change is needed. Are you open to trying a patched RB with an OP wad over the powder charge? For openers I'd use the same RB you're presently using and patching that will allow only modest effort to start and seat that combination.
P.S. I replaced the cardboard backer on my target frame the other day, but left the hole left by a .60cal. RB alone as it affects nothing. The cause was a hang fire, which my trade gun is prone to unless I dry swab the breech area after ~20 shots: Now I know better! :Doh!
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Let's see, 3 hits on paper, 2 in the scoring rings, and 0 in the target frame. I'd call that good, Joe. :bl th up Three questions for you: Have you bench rested the gun with the same load combination @ 25 yd.? If so, did it group well? If not, it may suggest a change is needed. Are you open to trying a patched RB with an OP wad over the powder charge? For openers I'd use the same RB you're presently using and patching that will allow only modest effort to start and seat that combination.
P.S. I replaced the cardboard backer on my target frame the other day, but left the hole left by a .60cal. RB alone as it affects nothing. The cause was a hang fire, which my trade gun is prone to unless I dry swab the breech area after ~20 shots: Now I know better! :Doh!
I've not benched the smoothie as yet. Was kinda thinking just getting familiar with it before I headed off to the bench and was hopeful that some load might just show up promising ('course we know that seldom happens), and really I've just been having some fun with it. I had not thought of a "powder - wad - patched ball" combination. It's certainly worth checking out. :bl th up
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Guess my eyes are not as quick as they used to be.
When I glanced through the subject lines, for some reason I read TMA Smoothbore Match as TMA 4 Bore Match.
First thought was, "WOW, when did the big boys come into the room?
Then I read it again and I thought, Oh well, it could have been nice to see some awesome fire power here. Maybe next time? Anyone shooting something like that? 4 bores? 2 bores? even an 8 bore? Sorry to say, all my big guns have migrated to new homes. In one way, I really miss them, but at 400 grains of powder and 1,500 grains of lead, the 4 bore was kind of expensive to feed. And I am getting too old and feeble to carry a 20 pound rifle around very long.
John
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.............And I am getting too old and feeble to carry a 20 pound rifle around very long.
I understand your thinking John, I ditched a 32" x 1" .45 Cal that I had pipe dreams about fitting to my Renegade platform for that same reason, it was just too heavy.
It was a knuckle dragger and it made the balance of the rifle such that I simply could not manage it worth a nickel.
Anyway, I do hope Joe gets that smoothie printing good for him, and if I know Joe, he will do just that.
Reading these guys post on their smoothies 'kinda' makes me want to drag out my old .69 again, but that thing has whupped my butt soooo many times I guess I'm just gun-shy....besides it's very happy as a scatter gun, IMO.
Joe, I got to thinking about what I said the other day about "needing more speed", actually my response came almost automatically...
Don Hastings here in Moses Lake several years back was doing his best to get a handle on his .62 with a PRB.
We shot together pretty often back then and I got to shoot his smoothie several times, as well as him shooting mine. In fact, he shot my own gun better than I could.
His targets, in the beginning, was a lot like what you showed in that picture, pretty much 'circular'.
So were mine when shooting his gun.
I ran into Don at the range last Spring, he had that same gun and it was shooting like a rifle, minus the rear sight.
According to Don it took him all of about three plus years all together to get the gun just right....It was a beautiful .62 IMO that he had bought used from TOTW, made by some name I never recognized can't remember, but he was proud of that name, and always like to tell folks who made it.... I do remember he paid a "pretty penny" for it.
According to him, His grouping secret turned out to be the powder, leaving everything else the same, he started increasing his loads and the load he was using to get those nice groups was, IIRC, well over 100gr.FFG...I want to say it was more like 110gr but I can't remember...recoil was pretty rough, even for him, but he eventually got what he had been looking for.
His remarks to me about all this, the last time I saw him shooting it, was "Speed Kills".
Uncle Russ...
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As poorly as I shot at the paper earlier this week, I hesitate to give advice, but I think it was me and not the load. I find my Caywood Northwest trade gun in .62 caliber likes about 70 grains of 3f powder with a half wad, ball or shot, other half wad, load column. The wads are lubed with crisco. In my knuckleball analogy, I found when I used to throw them that if I tried to throw them too hard, I lost control, but if I kept my velocity down, I could keep it near the strike zone. At least, near enough to tempt a few hitters. Of course, I never tried it in an actual game as the coach wanted me to throw mostly fastballs and the occasional change-up. But, again, my advice is definitely suspect. :laffing
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Tell ya what John...I sure don't want to shoot it...but I'd sure like to see your 4 bore 25yd target!! :o It would either make things real easy for Joe or make him pull his hair out ;D
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You know, I've used the knuckleball analogy a few times myself ::), but reasoning by analogy doesn't beat cold hard facts (not saying I have an abundance of these). Think about it: A typical knuckleball is thrown at maybe 70 - 80mph and possibly a tad slower. A nominally .600" RB atop 70gr. FFFg or 80gr. FFg is moving much, much faster, which adds to it's "stability." Some, as Uncle Russ mentioned, find nirvana with 100gr. - 110gr. FFg with that diameter RB.
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You know, I've used the knuckleball analogy a few times myself ::), but reasoning by analogy doesn't beat cold hard facts (not saying I have an abundance of these). Think about it: A typical knuckleball is thrown at maybe 70 - 80mph and possibly a tad slower. A nominally .600" RB atop 70gr. FFFg or 80gr. FFg is moving much, much faster, which adds to it's "stability." Some, as Uncle Russ mentioned, find nirvana with 100gr. - 110gr. FFg with that diameter RB.
I am sure you're right. I just prefer not to waste the powder with excessive charges when I get good accuracy and plenty of punch with my load. But every gun is a law unto itself, which is part of what makes muzzleloaders so fascinating. And some folks enjoy getting pummeled by heavy charges. :laffing (I may be looking at Bigsmoke ) ;)
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I'd have to pass on a 4 bore, and my ceiling (which I don't plan on getting one) would be a .75 cal Brown Bess, so,,, This 24 gauge will have to do, an I just need to keep with the loading variables 'till I find what works for me. With this said, I haven't really given this smoothie a good test outing. I've only been out with it 4 times, and I've only shot (I think maybe 25 rounds through it???) and the 4 times out has been with different, powder charges, ball size, patch, wadding,,, and the only consistent thing has been the powder (1fg with 4fg prime).
I do want to mention that this is the first "no rear sight" firearm I've ever shot (not counting my 12 ga Winchester pump during Trap sessions), so I still need to get a feel for this smoothie.
The picture below is what my August Smoothbore target was posted over (in the center) and I'm not disappointed in the three shots showing in the scoring rings on this backer target, nor even the two to the right on the cardboard, as I know that I still have to develop the feel for this smoothie with no rear sight, and along the way do a little testing with the loads. It's all good (no rear sight) black powder fun for me at this point, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I love learning new things - and this is what I enjoy most about this smoothie. :shake :hairy
(http://i.imgur.com/wqPf7kV.jpg) (http://imgur.com/wqPf7kV)
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Well said, Joe! :bl th up
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Well, besides inventory, I have really only owned but two smoothies (except a couple of 12 ga. doubles) so I really have not a lot of experience with them.
The first was a most beautiful trade gun, it had a bird's eye maple stock but the most awful lock in the world. I never did get more than one shot in a row out of it. Sold that thing most willingly. But it sure were purty!!
When they first came out, I got a T/C New Englander with both the rifle and the shotgun barrel. One day at the range I had both barrels with me so I put the shotgun barrel on and loaded up with a .715 ball and shot at a 100 yd target posted at 50 yards. I was totally amazed at the group I got with it, probably as I recollect, it was about 2 1/2 or 3". Wish I would have kept that target, it was rather impressive.
John
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I've seen written here several times that those TC smoothies have a track record of being pretty darn accurate. Now I've never owned one of those barrels so I'm only conjecturing,,, if they are full octagon - do you suppose that may have something to do with it in regards to barrel whip? Just throwing this out there, but it seems to me that a full octagon barrel would be more ridged then a octagon to round... Perhaps my thinking is way off on this, but as I said, just throwing it out here as something to think about? :shake
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Yes, they're 1" across the flats (full octagon) and only 26" long so there isn't much barrel whip. The blocky, but fully adjustable and functional, i.e., easy to see!, sights help as does the nice set trigger. You've got my Renegade SB target, Joe: Can you tell it was fired from a SB (smooth rifle, if you want to be technical) and offhand at that? At 25yd,, it is as almost as accurate as my rifles, especially [when fired] offhand. One caveat though, T/C Renegades & Hawkens don't fit everyone well as they don't have enough drop in the stock. I'm thinking a tang sight would cure that problem, but it would probably mean changing the front sight as well.
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Yes, they're 1" across the flats (full octagon) and only 26" long so there isn't much barrel whip. The blocky, but fully adjustable and functional, i.e., easy to see!, sights help as does the nice set trigger. You've got my Renegade SB target, Joe: Can you tell it was fired from a SB (smooth rifle, if you want to be technical) and offhand at that? At 25yd,, it is as almost as accurate as my rifles, especially [when fired] offhand. One caveat though, T/C Renegades & Hawkens don't fit everyone well as they don't have enough drop in the stock. I'm thinking a tang sight would cure that problem, but it would probably mean changing the front sight as well.
Maven, it's kinda funny but I told Joe a short time back, pretty much word for word, everything you just said.
That short "stubby" rear sight is just that....however it is very functional and the hole spacing won't line up for any T/C Replacement., Even though it is ugly as sin it is very functional.
But that ugly is just fine with me.
I love the way the notch in the rear sight fits the front blade on that short barrel....that, IMO, was exceptional engineering by someone who knew what they wanted in the end.
And you're spot-on about the fit!
It's certainly not for everyone, although I do like the fit and style of the Renegade a lot better than the much more popular Hawken.
Uncle Russ...
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My first muzzleloader was a TC Hawken I built out of a kit, and that rifle hit me in the cheek about every fifth shot. The Lyman Deerstalker and Great Plains stocks fit me a lot better, but best of all are my two custom rifles and my Caywood. None of them have hurt me yet! :bl th up
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"My first muzzleloader was a TC Hawken I built out of a kit, and that rifle hit me in the cheek above every fifth shot."
amm, Did you ever try it with Maxi-Balls? My cheek and jaw were sore for days! :o
Russ, Old eyes and Patridge sights work well together. I find I need a .010" front sight, preferably black, to shoot well. In fact, I shimmed the front sight of my Isaac Haines rifle to that width and painted it brown to hide the white plastic I used. The top and edge I look at is flat black though: tried other colors, but didn't like them.
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"My first muzzleloader was a TC Hawken I built out of a kit, and that rifle hit me in the cheek above every fifth shot."
amm, Did you ever try it with Maxi-Balls? My cheek and jaw were sore for days! :o
Russ, Old eyes and Patridge sights work well together. I find I need a .010" front sight, preferably black, to shoot well. In fact, I shimmed the front sight of my Isaac Haines rifle to that width and painted it brown to hide the white plastic I used. The top and edge I look at is flat black though: tried other colors, but didn't like them.
I did! I hunted elk with maxi balls and 90 grain loads. Pure punishment for me and the stumps I shot! :laffing
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what has helped me with hefty 20ga loads of swiss 3f is a lace-on butt pad that i stitched up and used a custom cut 1/2" thick piece of kick killer Akton gel inside the boot. a 90 grain load with a 325 grain patched ball in that lightweight under 7.5lb smoothie is no recoil issue for my ailing gun shoulder.
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Decided yesterday that I better make a 110 grain 2fg charger, so I did. I've heard, read here, and saw on youtube, that 110 grains of the 2fg seems to be an accepted standard load for wadding loads so I'm going to try this on my next outing (2fg powder, wad, ball, wad). I've been using the 1fg that I have and will also continue testing with that, (I haven't checked but I think this charger should throw 100 to 105 grains of 1fg)...
I could just use my adjustable chargers, but what the heck,,, was feeling like making something. :bl th up
(http://i.imgur.com/EbzYrH5.jpg) (http://imgur.com/EbzYrH5)
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Joe, I've known you for many years now, and, IMHO you are always looking for an excuse to "just make something".
Can't say I'm a lot different in that respect, especially when it comes to them stinkin ol' smoke poles.
Keep us posted on your grouping progress!
Personally, I'm of the opinion that you will see an improvement in groups as you progress with this.
But then again, what would I know? I'm the guy that just totally gave up on a .69 cal. and was never happy with the "groups" I got from a very nice .62.
However, I am of the opinion that smoothbores are no different than guns that are rifled, in the sense that everyone is a science within itself, with no one single cure that covers accuracy in every Smoothie, just as there no one single cure for accuracy in Rifled Guns.
And, knowing you as I do, you are really going to enjoy this little journey.... :lol sign
:hairy
Uncle Russ...
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Joe, I've known you for many years now, and, IMHO you are always looking for an excuse to "just make something".
Can't say I'm a lot different in that respect, especially when it comes to them stinkin ol' smoke poles.
I do enjoy the tinkering aspect of this black powder addiction, that's for sure! :hairy
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Joe, The Sept./Oct. '17 Muzzleloader magazine has a Mike Nesbitt article, "Trade Gun Fun," which may interest you, though not because of its content. Rather, Nesbitt's photographs of two of the paper targets (attached below) may be something to consider for a future smoothbore match. The "moonshine jug target" as Nesbitt calls it is from the Puget Sound Free Trappers/Evergreen Sportsmen's Club in WA. The second target is available from the American Target Co. Btw, the distances of some of the trade gun targets at the "frolic" Mike wrote about are rather long, e.g., 80 yd., but I witnessed a hit on a 6 ft. oxygen tank gong @ 125 yd. with a 20ga. smoothie at a woods walk on 8/27.
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Joe, The Sept./Oct. '17 Muzzleloader magazine has a Mike Nesbitt article, "Trade Gun Fun," which interest you, though not because of its content. Rather, Nesbitt's photographs of two of the paper targets (attached below) may be something to consider for a future smoothbore match. The "moonshine jug target" as Nesbitt calls it is from the Puget Sound Free Trappers/Evergreen Sportsmen's Club in WA. The second target is available from the American Target Co. Btw, the distances of some of the trade gun targets at the "frolic" Mike wrote about are rather long, e.g., 80 yd., but I witnessed a hit on a 6 ft. oxygen tank gong @ 125 yd. with a 20ga. smoothie at a woods walk on 8/27.
We may just borrow that idea, Maven! :hairy :shake