Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Craftsmanship => Hawks and Knives => Topic started by: davet on October 14, 2017, 08:08:55 PM
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Hi this is my first post so be gentle. As a time served smith one of the things i dont agree with is any blade/hawk or hatchet thats supposed to be authentic has hammer marks and firescale left on it' as an apprentice in the uk one of the worst crimes i could commit was not presenting anything blade shaped that was not within 95percent of its finished size and was not clean and flat and most of the old boys could finish to 99.9 percent as i was informed every time i presented my first few efforts stones and belts cost money plus the grinders were on piece work and threw things at me that were the smallist bit out so if your knifes were homemade then yes a bit of hammer rash is fitting but trade goods from the uk i doubt it black at the top yes but not full of scale just my ten pence worth dave
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Glad to hear from an experienced smith. As a hobby smith the finish of the blade depends on what I want the blade to replicate. If it is a factory product then you are absolutely correct, there should be no blemishes on the blade. If it is the product of a frontier forge then some blemishes are acceptable.
Welcome to the group
IronHand
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Glad to hear from an experienced smith. As a hobby smith the finish of the blade depends on what I want the blade to replicate. If it is a factory product then you are absolutely correct, there should be no blemishes on the blade. If it is the product of a frontier forge then some blemishes are acceptable.
Welcome to the group
IronHand
I agree,.... I find it difficult to think blades (of any kind) made on the frontier had the same degree of "finish" found on blades made in a factory.
Welcome to our TMA forum davet,... it's always good to hear from folks in the UK. :shake
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re: the frontier blacksmith: I do not think you can honestly expect there to always be hammer marks and scale any more than you can say they all had to be perfect. Back then as today, there were always varying levels of skill in a frontier blacksmith shop-- be it set up under a tree or under a roof. But the individual's skills would grow, and they would put out better products as they progressed. As in any trade, smiths were proud of their growing skills, why would they settle with mediocrity? The consumer certainly wouldn't.
K
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thinking about a statement made on another forum about the lack of old files from the 17/18 hundreds and that they would be one of the few sources of good carbon steel and i couldnt agree more one of the main items made in all blacksmith /farriers shops would be a toeing knife in those days and right up to the 1960s/70s the toeing knife was the main way of removing large amounts of hoof fast most good farriers were past masters with them if you can visualise a file or rasp worked down to less than a 1/4 of an inch thick at the spine and razor sharp a foot to 14 inches long driven around the sole of the horses foot with the nailing on hammer you get the drift of how they were used and once use to them the apprentice smith could remove two inches of foot and leave a flat surface that could be sprung by the thumbs so half an hour a day could be taken up with sharpening your knives this meant they wore out fast plus the hammering made them break in half so maybe one to two files per year per smith would go to keep them shoeing now you sometimes see old patch knifes with a squared of end and i think this is were this shape originated after the blade snapped your left with a razor edge just long enough to make a great patch cutter for the picking up out of the scrap
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Wow. I almost ran out of breath reading that. :P
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yeah... punctuation sir... punctuation. :Doh! :pray:
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sorry i have bad artharitus in my hands so i just go for it
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I understand! Getting twinges of pain every so often myself. Thank you for posting!
-Kees-
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sorry i have bad artharitus in my hands so i just go for it
Well, then, sir,
Welcome to the TMA and welcome to the arthritis association. One of which is great and one of which sucks.
Fortunately, my hands are so far pain free, can't say so much for my back and neck. I feel for you. Go for the gusto, anyway.
John
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good thread
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Just the differences between artisans, blacksmiths and back country farmers/frontiersmen doing what it takes to survive.
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Is a toeing knife a hoof knife? Never heard of it called a toeing knife.yeah! Phew!
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Is a toeing knife a hoof knife? Never heard of it called a toeing knife.yeah! Phew!
From the description, no.
visualise a file or rasp worked down to less than a 1/4 of an inch thick at the spine and razor sharp, a foot to 14 inches long driven, around the sole of the horses foot with the nailing on hammer. You get the drift of how they were used. And once used to them, the apprentice smith could remove two inches of foot and leave a flat surface that could be sprung by the thumbs
A hoof knife is not that large or thick, and has a hook in the end to dig into the sole of the hoof. At least that is how one was back in the mid 1970s, which was the last time I was under a horse.
~Kees~