Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Traditional Firearms => Flintlock Long Guns => Topic started by: Axe on October 15, 2017, 12:11:23 PM
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My plan is to compete (?) in the 2018 postal match and try my hand at using the TVM Fowler for the October target. Any suggestions as to patch and ball combinations?
Axe
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Sorry Axe, I don't have any info for you as I'm just a Rookie 24 ga. (.58 cal) Smoothbore user myself with the NWTG I bought from Rollingb at Rendezvous this past Summer. However, I expect it won't be long before you get an answer to your question. :bl th up
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It's a case of shoot and try finding a ball load for a smoothy. I usually end up using a patched ball but my tradegun likes a naked ball with a normal wad column.
Despite some advice to the contrary, I have always found that the best groups are with balls near bore diameter.
IronHand
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My plan is to compete (?) in the 2018 postal match and try my hand at using the TVM Fowler for the October target. Any suggestions as to patch and ball combinations?
Axe
There are lots of combinations of various loads and loading methods you can try in your smoothbore to see what shoots best.
One must always remember,.... that every barrel is an animal of it's own and what works best in one barrel may (or may not) work as well in an identical barrel.
That being as it may, it might take a while to find the ideal load for your particular barrel.
Some smoothbores like a patched ball load, while others may shoot more accurately with wadding and a bare ball. Even the type of "wadding" varies, as some barrels prefer wadding such as wasp nest material or wads made of "tow". Still others may prefer wads cut from felt, or card-board such as milk cartons. Some barrels might even shoot better with a "combination" of the things listed above.
In my personal opinion, a smoothbore will shoot about anything you can stuff down it's bore (reasonably well), which makes it more versatile than rifled bores, but at the expense of "effective range".
Personally,.... I find that I have to burn a lot more powder to find a good load for a smooth bore (with all of it's variables), than powder burnt to find an accurate load in a rifled bore.
As with others here (I'm sure),.... I think half of the fun in finding a good load for a particular smooth bore is the time spent shooting and playing with all the different variables, such as ball size, wads/wadding, and powder charge.
I'm sorry if my ramblin' doesn't exactly answer your question, but anyone working with just one smooth bore has a big advantage over someone (like me) who is looking for the "ideal load" for 5 of these critters and limited time for "fun at the range".
Hopefully others with more "enlightening" info than I have to offer, will share what they know about these interestin' pieces of history and how to get the utmost accuracy out of them,.... although (from the historical research I've done) accuracy didn't seem to be a top priority when usin' smooth bores in the past. :bl th up
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Using a ball with no patch, and loading it similar to turkey hunting i.e. powder, over powder card, felt wad, shot, over shot card. Would substituting a ball for the shot work?
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Using a ball with no patch, and loading it similar to turkey hunting i.e. powder, over powder card, felt wad, shot, over shot card. Would substituting a ball for the shot work?
That is how I shoot my tradegun. I have also had good luck with using the overpowder and/or cushion wad under a patched ball. That is probably the best combination I have used.
IronHand
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Thanks Ironhand....I'll give that a try. Might also try putting towe on top of the ball. I see a fun, challenging day at the range in my future.
Axe
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Years ago, maybe 1990ish, I had a T/C New Englander with both a .50 cal and a 12 ga (cylinder bore) barrel.
I put a simple rear sight on the barrel and shot a .715 ball with a .010 patch and maybe 90 grains of Ffg, IIRC. Probably used spit for lube.
At 50 yards, 5 shots pretty much obliterated the 9 and 10 ring. Them 12 bore balls make a pretty good size hole.
Of course, I sold the darn thing. If I would have had the .54 cal barrel, I might have kept it. Might, but probably not. So many rifles have walked in and back out the doors. Drat, wish I could learn to not sell the darn things.
John
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I have a 12 ga double and shoot .690rb and blue jean patches. it is by the way not choked.
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I generally shoot a patched roundball out of my smoothie. The patch and ball can be thumb started down the bore but it is relatively snug and not at all loose. I can get a satisfactory group that way out to 50-75 yards. As stated above, each gun is different and so stating exact patch and ball combo is not all that helpful I don't think. Experiment and have fun.
K
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My huntin buddy; tater, shoots a cva, 12ga sxs, with a 690rb, and a .015 patch, over 90grs. 2fg!!! deer, elk, dead meat!!!
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Drat, wish I could learn to not sell the darn things.
My problem also! I had a beautiful T-C New Englander 12 ga, it had been professionally built, nicely checkered. Then one day I decided I had never shot it, I'm not a shotgunner anyway, and I sold it... :Doh! :Doh! :Doh!
~WH~
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Drat, wish I could learn to not sell the darn things.
My problem also! I had a beautiful T-C New Englander 12 ga, it had been professionally built, nicely checkered. Then one day I decided I had never shot it, I'm not a shotgunner anyway, and I sold it... :Doh! :Doh! :Doh!
~WH~
My TC New Englander with a .54 cal and 12 ga choked barrel was my first muzzleloader and one that I'll never part with.
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My smoothbore is a .62. With a lubed patch it gives consistent 3 shot groups of 3" or a little less at 50 yards. With a .606" WW ball loaded without a patch, the groups are larger but still pie plate size with 5 shots. The patched load has killed deer previously so is a proven load - 70 grains of 3F.
(https://image.ibb.co/jGjNbG/PICT0586_2.jpg)
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Hanshi, That .62 with that load using WW ball should be a "Drop Dead Right There" load for just about anything it is aimed at.
I have never gotten the accuracy I wanted from own .62 when shooting rb patch, so I have leaned heavily, for years, on my .56 smoothie which I know and trust to be deadly accurate at 50 plus yds.
Someday, when I get myself a really nice roundtoit, I fully intend to do more work on that .62...like starting from scratch and working through the whole process again. However, that takes time, and I have weigh that "time' very carefully, that is if I truly want to re-invent the wheel all over, or be perfectly content with what I have. I suspect we'll just have to wait and see.......
Nice post, thanks for sharing.
Uncle Russ...
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My smoothbore is a .62. With a lubed patch it gives consistent 3 shot groups of 3" or a little less at 50 yards. With a .606" WW ball loaded without a patch, the groups are larger but still pie plate size with 5 shots. The patched load has killed deer previously so is a proven load - 70 grains of 3F.
(https://image.ibb.co/jGjNbG/PICT0586_2.jpg)
Hanshi, I'm working up a load for a smooth bore and have to ask what a WW ball is. What does the "WW" stand for?
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Wheel weights? Although the new ones have precious little lead in them.
~WH~
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Winter Hawk, i once built a 12ga New Englander, and checkered it. Sold it to Jack Schrader in Bremen Ohio. Wonder if it’s the same one. Ric
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If a longer barreled smoothbore, say ~44” & over, I have seen a marked improvement in consistency by switching to 1Fg powdah. Using my big 75-cal Dutch ‘Hudson Valley’ fowler of 60” barrel, I took 2nd place in a woodwalk (18-targets) where I only missed the 15 & 20-yard animal gongs (shot over them) and didn’t split the 3/8” wood dowel in half :( .
But, I hit all the other chains or gongs out to 80-yards and whilst using a 90-grn 1Fg load, I shot well over 30-shots that day without wiping the bore between shots.
FWIW I find that a vege fiber wad cut in 1/2, lubed & seated below the patched/lubed ball, gives my smoothies the best accuracy at 50-yds, as in 3” groups or better (benched). But I also do load development for each load, starting at # of grains = bore caliber & working my way UP in 5-grain increments.
My experience ... smoothies shoot better w/ higher powdah charges! Oh and whilst using that 1Fg load ... the recoil is negligible, whereas 90-grns+ 2Fg charges wasn’t fun for more than a few shots.
My current goal is to create a traditional ‘paper cartridge’ load that gives me 3-4” groups or
better at 50-yards.
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Thanks for the heads up on the 1f powder. I'll need to try it in my 62 cal. I get fair results (3-4 inch groups @ 40 yds) with 3f now so maybe I can improve on the targets with the 1f. The fun is in the trying!
doggoner
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Winter Hawk, i once built a 12ga New Englander, and checkered it. Sold it to Jack Schrader in Bremen Ohio. Wonder if it’s the same one. Ric
Maybe, maybe not... I picked it up on one of the websites, sold it there a couple of years later. It was sure pretty! I did have photos but must have deleted them. Sorry....
~Kees~